footbridge for wheelchairs

L&Y Robert · 29 Aug 2012

Has anyone been to Charlbury (Cotswold Line) recently? Charlbury is a quiet little town in the rural Cotwolds. Down at the station they've built a steel footbridge over the line with steel approach ramps on each side. The footway over the bridge is, maybe, 30m long, but the ramps! I estimated 150m each, and they are not pretty! The 'down' one fits fairly neatly (but obtrusively) behind and parallel to the down platform, whereas the 'up' side one zig-zags back at right angles over the new car-park. They are HUGE. Even the surveyor lady (Polish, nice) I spoke to thought it "A bit over the top, and what's wrong with a lift?". Cheaper, I would have thought. It would be interesting to know how many people use these ramps in, say, a year - apart from the local skate-boarders, that is. I thought that both ramps were themselves a hazard - especially the 'down' side one - catch-points and a sand-drag needed there.:roll:

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RPI · 29 Aug 2012

because lifts have to be manned for every second that they are in use-when i say manned, the station has to be.

185 · 29 Aug 2012

Very ugly. How they get planning permission is beyond me.

Similar ones in South Yorkshire.
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RPI said:
because lifts have to be manned for every second that they are in use-when i say manned, the station has to be.

Not necessarily. Metrolink has loads (20+) unstaffed stations with lifts.

Mojo · 29 Aug 2012

185 said:
Not necessarily. Metrolink has loads (20+) unstaffed stations with lifts.

Similarly the DLR which has very few staffed stations, and many more lifts.

yorksrob · 29 Aug 2012

We've had a similar footbridge installed at Normanton which, it has to be said, isn't the prettiest of locations in the first place - so they're not exactly ruining anything. The one up the line has a rather attractive stone built ramp but it is in a cutting, so you've got more earthworks to start off with.

I've seen many more people than just the disabled using the ramps though, including people with luggage, youths on bycicles and people who don't fancy using the stairs.

Class377/5 · 29 Aug 2012

RPI said:
because lifts have to be manned for every second that they are in use-when i say manned, the station has to be.

No they don't. Look at West Hampstead Thameslink, lifts in use 24/7 yet not staffed 24/7.

Believe they've relaxed the rules now.

MidnightFlyer · 29 Aug 2012

I believe some of the stations between Airdrie and Bathgate (the brand new ones) are unstaffed and have lifts.

Another example is Barnetby, the footbridge there is hideous.

maniacmartin · 29 Aug 2012

The long ramp can be seen here and here. I agree it looks a bit of an eyesore, but is more reliable than lifts, and there probably wasn't enough land on the side of the new platform to fit a better ramp in

MattRobinson · 29 Aug 2012

A ramp is surely cheaper to maintain than a lift, that may be something to do with it?

swt_passenger · 29 Aug 2012

Class377/5 said:
No they don't. Look at West Hampstead Thameslink, lifts in use 24/7 yet not staffed 24/7.

Believe they've relaxed the rules now.

I'm fairly sure lifts can now be remotely supervised, my local example is Eastleigh, where they relocated the up side 'concourse' doors, sspecifically so that the lift became accessible from the platform but outside of the building. This was to allow the station to operate unmanned with passenger access through a side gate, but the lifts still stay on all night AFAICT...

Not sure how far away the remote supervision is though - perhaps they have someone mobile covering a local group of stations?

michael769 · 29 Aug 2012

It does not matter as long as you can be certain you will be able to detect a failure - which is easy with remote monitoring and CCTV. The emergency call systems in modern lifts are there to provide reassurance to users rather than any actual need for them. The remote monitoring centre does the same as a station staff would do, which is to call their maintenance provider.

The companies that maintain lifts have networks of local engineers who are on Call to attend a failure. If all else fails the fire brigade will attend to assist the engineer in extricating occupants.

asylumxl · 29 Aug 2012

Whether you think they're an eyesore or not, they do their job and I'm sure people requiring the use of them will be more than pleased.

Bungle73 · 29 Aug 2012

As has been noted DLR stations are unmanned and have lifts, and have done ever since it first opened in 1987.

Penmorfa · 29 Aug 2012

RPI said:
because lifts have to be manned for every second that they are in use-when i say manned, the station has to be.

At Prestatyn we have a new ramped footbridge and a lift in the centre down to the island platform. At night the lift is locked and released by Cardiff. The footbridge serves as a main walkway between the two halves of the town. In fact it is part of the Offa's Dyke long distance path. It is surprising how many people choose the long walk up and down the ramps rather than the short flights of steps.

We also have brand new copies of the original LNWR station building - but that's a different story!

jon0844 · 29 Aug 2012

I'd imagine a ramp is far, far cheaper than a lift with the monitoring, cleaning and maintenence needed. If it makes stations accessible that otherwise would not be, I think needs take priority over looks.

However, trying to design a bridge to look nice is a bonus. As would be having the forward vision to have a bridge that could potentially have lifts added at a later date.

Ramps are also going to work all the time, so a TOC won't have to bung someone in a taxi when a lift breaks down. Ideally even stations getting/with lifts should have ramps too.

Penmorfa · 29 Aug 2012

jonmorris0844 said:
I'd imagine a ramp is far, far cheaper than a lift with the monitoring, cleaning and maintenence needed. If it makes stations accessible that otherwise would not be, I think needs take priority over looks.

However, trying to design a bridge to look nice is a bonus. As would be having the forward vision to have a bridge that could potentially have lifts added at a later date.

Ramps are also going to work all the time, so a TOC won't have to bung someone in a taxi when a lift breaks down. Ideally even stations getting/with lifts should have ramps too.

I think people loose the point when they say how huge and hideous they are. The ramps are built to a gradient which is comfortable for the disabled, etc to use. The clue is in the word 'accessibility'.

jon0844 · 29 Aug 2012

Yes, and ramps are also great for people with luggage. Hatfield is getting lifts, which is great but given how many people arrive here with their whole house in a case, there's a good chance they'll need to queue for the lifts. A ramp would therefore be quicker.

Mojo · 29 Aug 2012

At least customers at Charlbury have the option of a staircase to avoid the very long ramp. At Filton Abbey Wood customers have to trudge up and around a very long ramp to reach the platforms.

Skimble19 · 29 Aug 2012

However, at stations where only ramps are installed and no stairs it will end up taking people without luggage, who otherwise wouldn't need to use a lift an awful lot longer to get onto the platform..

Bungle73 · 29 Aug 2012

Skimble19 said:
However, at stations where only ramps are installed and no stairs it will end up taking people without luggage, who otherwise wouldn't need to use a lift an awful lot longer to get onto the platform..

Surely most people can negotiate a ramp much faster than several flights of stairs?

michael769 · 30 Aug 2012

Ramps are fine for motorised wheelchairs and folks witn manuals with good upper body strength and endurance. But they are terrible for folks in manual wheelchairs who also have upper body issues, or who are being pushed by a companion (I'd not like to push an adult in a wheelchair up some of the ramps I see). They are also terrible for folks on crutches.

A lift provides accessibility for a far greater range of impairments.

jon0844 · 30 Aug 2012

I agree but a ramp is better than nothing. Many stations might never get lifts, or at least in our lifetime due to cost.

It must be cheaper to have help to push a wheelchair user up a ramp than put them in a taxi. There might not be many wheelchair users but that could be because of the poor accessibility.

Anyway, for me it's both. People with luggage or buggies then don't need to queue for ages for the lift.

pemma · 30 Aug 2012

jonmorris0844 said:
Ramps are also going to work all the time, so a TOC won't have to bung someone in a taxi when a lift breaks down. Ideally even stations getting/with lifts should have ramps too.

Usual solution for a broken lift is for passenger to travel in the wrong direction to the next accessible stop and then continue their journey in the right direction. OK on a line with a train every few minutes but not OK on lines or at stations with an infrequent service.

Oswyntail · 30 Aug 2012

At least they got it right. The Ilkley footbridge has a ramp at one side only and steps on the other. A big raspberry to accessibility there!

Smethwickian · 30 Aug 2012

And at least Charlbury's 'ugly' ramp presumably meets the ground without a six-inch gap.....

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereve...n---because-ramp-was-built-six-inches-too-low

jopsuk · 30 Aug 2012

michael769 said:
(I'd not like to push an adult in a wheelchair up some of the ramps I see). .

Which is presumably why the ramps in question are so long, to minimise the gradient- I notice they also have short "refuge" sections of flat.

D6975 · 30 Aug 2012

The platforms at Lawrence Hill have just had new staircases put in, replacing the old dilapidated concrete ones.
Odd that they didn't put in a ramp, there's no other access to the southbound platform, so it's still totally inaccessible for a wheelchair user.
Northbound there's access via the ALDI car park.

Tracky · 30 Aug 2012

Penmorfa said:
At Prestatyn we have a new ramped footbridge and a lift in the centre down to the island platform. At night the lift is locked and released by Cardiff.

Same for Wrexham General, Rhyl, Colwyn Bay and Bangor. Not sure about Llandudno Junction but the station is manned for virtually the whole day anyway.

I would imagine huge ramps have a cost saving over the longer term as they do not require a fixed service agreement and a call out fee each time they fail.

jon0844 · 30 Aug 2012

jcollins said:
Usual solution for a broken lift is for passenger to travel in the wrong direction to the next accessible stop and then continue their journey in the right direction. OK on a line with a train every few minutes but not OK on lines or at stations with an infrequent service.

That's the case at Hatfield too but a) it can be very slow as trains don't connect except by luck, and b) it is only for wheelchairs, not people with buggies or large bags.

Speedbird2639 · 31 Aug 2012

IMHO pretty much every £ spent on facilities for the disabled is a waste of money. For whatever reason(s) - real or imagined - the lesser mobile section of society are not attracted by the service offered by The Railway. Since Jan 2012 I have been travelling to work by train in Birmingham - so date that wld be roughly 320 journeys - number of times I've seen a disabled person on the train? Nil! - not one - on all those journeys. At all the stations along the line provision is made with car parking spaces set aside for their use and every day these stand idle while people hunt abt in side streets for a parking spot.

People moan abt the railways receiving subsidies and fares being too high and then they (the rule makers) insist on every possible permutation of provision being made for people who travel everywhere in their Motability provided brand new car, and so have no need of the railway. Any service shd strive to create a cost effective and efficient service for the majority of its users - not get into an 'arms race' to see who can spend the most money on facilities that simply adds extortionate costs to be ignored by its target audience.

Before the pedants swarm all over this - I have no 'axe to grind' with the disabled community - I wld have no objection if my train was delayed a couple of minutes while the ramp was deployed to allow someone access to the train. But the case is indefensible - people suggested that disabled people didnt use the trains because there were no appropriate facilities - these facilities have been provided at huge expense that arguable cld have been better spent else where and still they stay away - it wld be an interesting exercise for an actuary types on the forum to explore the cost of providing parking/ lifts/ ramps at every station vs the cost of providing Motability cars to the disabled to use - I wldnt be surprised if the car option came out as cheaper in the long run when all the lift servicing/ cctv etc was factored in.

footbridge for wheelchairs

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