Matlock to Buxton

Kier · 8 Oct 2012

These two picturesque towns in Derbyshire are a mere 21 miles apart and there is an hourly bus between the two taking 45 minutes There is no direct train link.

However, you can still travel by train between them, the scenic way! Buxton-Stockport- Stoke on Trent - Derby - Matlock for a whopping £42 return and taking 3 and a half hours. Truly strange that they do a fare for such a route.

Is this the only instance of such a strange fare or can anyone give any more examples?

RailUK Forums

Deerfold · 8 Oct 2012

Kier said:
These two picturesque towns in Derbyshire are a mere 21 miles apart and there is an hourly bus between the two taking 45 minutes There is no direct train link.

However, you can still travel by train between them, the scenic way! Buxton-Stockport- Stoke on Trent - Derby - Matlock for a whopping £42 return and taking 3 and a half hours. Truly strange that they do a fare for such a route.

Is this the only instance of such a strange fare or can anyone give any more examples?

There's plenty more - and plenty of threads about them.

philjo · 8 Oct 2012

If you go via Sheffield and don't mind a walk between stations at New Mills you can cut that fare down to £11.10 if you use the Derbyshire wayfare ticket.

http://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/transport_roads/public_transport/tickets_passes/rover_tickets/derbyshire_wayfarer/default.asp

MidnightFlyer · 8 Oct 2012

Mallaig and Kyle of Lochalsh are only 27.5 miles apart by road via the Isle of Skye (and I think only one bus change), yet by rail you need to travel some 150 miles south to Glasgow, then via Perth to Inverness, then a change again for Kyle. It costs £109.60 SDS (though I'm not actually sure if it's possible in a day!) and overall is 426 miles 62 chains, some 400 more than via bus or car...

As Deerfold has said though, there are many more examples, such as Colne (and Burnley etc) to Skipton (via Bradford), and even things like Banbury to Cheltenham, which now requires travel via Birmingham...

tbtc · 8 Oct 2012

Blaenau Ffestiniog to Porthmadog? As Matt says, there are plenty of examples of train fares that appear expensive when compared to the "road" distance.

The Airdrie - Bathgate fares came down significantly when the direct link was re-opened. It's nothing specific to the Matlock - Buxton line.

It does appear to be a much better case for re-opening than many of the routes that keep getting suggested (SELRAP etc), but the fares "anomaly" isn't unique.

MidnightFlyer · 8 Oct 2012

tbtc said:
Blaenau Ffestiniog to Porthmadog?

Ffestiniog Railway

Coincidently it is also the only preserved railways to accept All Line Rovers and one of the few with Priv discounts. Mind you it is in a rather unique location, nowhere else in Britain does a heritage line breach such a gap between two heavy rail lines.

Goatboy · 8 Oct 2012

Scarborough to Whitby.

19 miles by road. £4-5 on the bus.

£46 for a Standard Day Single.

Still not as stupid as Tiverton Parkway to Taunton. Offpeak Day Single is £9. It's a 10 minute journey! In order to spend £9 going the opposite direction from Tiverton using an Offpeak Day Single you'd have to go all the way to Plymouth and spend some 75 minutes on the train.

Bizarre.

trentside · 8 Oct 2012

MattE2010 said:
Mallaig and Kyle of Lochalsh are only 27.5 miles apart by road via the Isle of Skye (and I think only one bus change), yet by rail you need to travel some 150 miles south to Glasgow, then via Perth to Inverness, then a change again for Kyle. It costs £109.60 SDS (though I'm not actually sure if it's possible in a day!) and overall is 426 miles 62 chains, some 400 more than via bus or car...

It's just possible in a day, departing Kyle at 12:03 and arriving in Mallaig at 23:35. A nice 11hr 32min journey according to National Rail - the only other option involves an overnight stay at Inverness and a journey time of over 20 hours. Quite a trip for places so close as the crow flies!

calc7 · 8 Oct 2012

Goatboy said:
Still not as stupid as Tiverton Parkway to Taunton. Offpeak Day Single is £9. It's a 10 minute journey! In order to spend £9 going the opposite direction from Tiverton using an Offpeak Day Single you'd have to go all the way to Plymouth and spend some 75 minutes on the train.

Bizarre.

CrossCountry vs FGW pricing.
Note how in both cases the (unregulated) Off-Peak Day Return will probably soon disappear as each is pence less than the (regulated) Anytime Day Return.

Goatboy · 8 Oct 2012

Why do different TOC's have such enormous price disrepencies? We get a really great deal from FGW down here in Devon and Cornwall (Though it's still amusing to hear locals complain about how expensive the train is!) - it's often a shock when you go outside the patch and see how bonkers some of the prices are.

I suspect any future changes will be of the type to make Devon and Cornwall less cheap rather than anywhere else less expensive, mind!

calc7 · 8 Oct 2012

Goatboy said:
Why do different TOC's have such enormous price disrepencies? We get a really great deal from FGW down here in Devon and Cornwall (Though it's still amusing to hear locals complain about how expensive the train is!) - it's often a shock when you go outside the patch and see how bonkers some of the prices are.

yorkie provides a really good example to do with a journey between Par and Scotland - let's hope he reads this.

In general, CrossCountry have raised their most profitable flows the maximum possible each fares round. Some people won't realise/care and will cough up, some people will drive instead, and some people will split into cheaper flows that actually sees XC get less revenue!

Goatboy said:
I suspect any future changes will be of the type to make Devon and Cornwall less cheap rather than anywhere else less expensive, mind!

As is always the case, so don't go giving ATOC ideas.

Bakerbloke · 8 Oct 2012

Glossop to Edale. 15 miles by car and if you hike via kinder scout it is probably 11 miles. By train it can be between 2 and 2.5 hours.

johnnychips · 9 Oct 2012

Bakerbloke said:
Glossop to Edale. 15 miles by car and if you hike via kinder scout it is probably 11 miles. By train it can be between 2 and 2.5 hours.

Glossop to Penistone (17 miles) would be fun as well. And there wouldn't be an easy bus or public transport connection.

Glossop to Edale Bus 61 to New Mills Central then the train.

Glossop to Penistone: Bus 236/7 to Hollingworth; Coach 350 to Langsett; then another bus to Penistone (used to be 20A but I think it's changed now).

The train would be Glossop- Guide Bridge- Stalybridge (one journey, Fri only)- Huddersfield- Penistone, or more realistically Glossop-Man Picc- Huddersfield/Sheffield - Penistone. £20.30 via Huddersfield single off-peak.

Goatboy · 9 Oct 2012

calc7 said:
In general, CrossCountry have raised their most profitable flows the maximum possible each fares round. Some people won't realise/care and will cough up, some people will drive instead, and some people will split into cheaper flows that actually sees XC get less revenue!

It's such a shame they do things like this. It seems a rather short termist view as it'll just turn more and more people off the idea of using rail. £1 a minute for a train ride... thats almost Heathrow Express levels of cost.

Lampshade · 9 Oct 2012

Skipton - Colne, 40 minutes by bus, probably around £5/6.

By rail, up to four hours via Bradford/Leeds and costing £28.70.

12CSVT · 9 Oct 2012

MattE2010 said:
Mind you it is in a rather unique location, nowhere else in Britain does a heritage line breach such a gap between two heavy rail lines.

The Spa Valley Railway comes very close to doing this, albeit with a 10 - 15 minute walk at the Tunbridge Wells end of the line.

paul1609 · 9 Oct 2012

MattE2010 said:
Ffestiniog Railway Coincidently it is also the only preserved railways to accept All Line Rovers and one of the few with Priv discounts. Mind you it is in a rather unique location, nowhere else in Britain does a heritage line breach such a gap between two heavy rail lines.

According to the ATOC Guide 26 heritage railways offer official PRIV discounts. Some of these are associate members of the Rail travel Scheme anyway. I reckon a lot of the others have unofficial discounts.

ATW Alex 101 · 9 Oct 2012

Alfreton parkway and mansfield are only about 15 miles by road but considerably longer by rail as you have to go right down to Nottingham.

I'd imagine st albans abbey and st albans mainline have a similar case too

Deerfold · 9 Oct 2012

johnnychips said:
Glossop to Penistone (17 miles) would be fun as well. And there wouldn't be an easy bus or public transport connection.

Glossop to Edale Bus 61 to New Mills Central then the train.

Glossop to Penistone: Bus 236/7 to Hollingworth; Coach 350 to Langsett; then another bus to Penistone (used to be 20A but I think it's changed now).

The train would be Glossop- Guide Bridge- Stalybridge (one journey, Fri only)- Huddersfield- Penistone, or more realistically Glossop-Man Picc- Huddersfield/Sheffield - Penistone. £20.30 via Huddersfield single off-peak.

In summer it's just a change of bus at Holmfirth.

tbtc · 9 Oct 2012

MattE2010 said:
Ffestiniog Railway Coincidently it is also the only preserved railways to accept All Line Rovers and one of the few with Priv discounts. Mind you it is in a rather unique location, nowhere else in Britain does a heritage line breach such a gap between two heavy rail lines.

Yes, and it's a lovely line to travel, but the NR fare is something stupidly high in comparison

johnnychips said:
Glossop to Penistone: Bus 236/7 to Hollingworth; Coach 350 to Langsett; then another bus to Penistone (used to be 20A but I think it's changed now)

Tates Travel service 23 every couple of hours (Barnsley - Deepcar - Stocksbridge - Flouch - Penistone)

Scotty · 9 Oct 2012

Boston to King's Lynn is 33 miles by road, but 3 and a half hours by train (via Grantham and Ely).

tbtc · 9 Oct 2012

Whilst the Airdrie - Bathgate fare came down significantly once the line was re-opened (reflecting the much shorter distance by rail between the two towns), what has happened in the past when lines were closed?

Did the fare from Airdrie to Bathgate (or Matlock to Buxton etc) rise suddenly once the through route was closed? Or was it more of a gradual increase over the years (above the normal inflationary percentage)?

Or, another way of looking at it, if the line from (say) Settle to Carlisle were to be closed today, would a Settle - Carlisle ticket increase significantly overnight?

John55 · 9 Oct 2012

tbtc said:
Whilst the Airdrie - Bathgate fare came down significantly once the line was re-opened (reflecting the much shorter distance by rail between the two towns), what has happened in the past when lines were closed?

Did the fare from Airdrie to Bathgate (or Matlock to Buxton etc) rise suddenly once the through route was closed? Or was it more of a gradual increase over the years (above the normal inflationary percentage)?

Or, another way of looking at it, if the line from (say) Settle to Carlisle were to be closed today, would a Settle - Carlisle ticket increase significantly overnight?

If Settle - Carlisle closed how could you catch a train from Settle? Stations further south such as Hellifield might see a change but I doubt it would be much as an alternative route is available and it isn't much longer.

D6975 · 9 Oct 2012

John55 said:
If Settle - Carlisle closed how could you catch a train from Settle? Stations further south such as Hellifield might see a change but I doubt it would be much as an alternative route is available and it isn't much longer.

If Settle - Carlisle closed, Settle would be a terminus for services from Leeds.
So the journey would probably become:
Settle - Hellifield - Lancaster - Carlisle.
Not a huge increase mileage-wise, but a big time increase I'll wager.

calc7 · 9 Oct 2012

D6975 said:
If Settle - Carlisle closed, Settle would be a terminus for services from Leeds.
So the journey would probably become:
Settle - Hellifield - Lancaster - Carlisle.
Not a huge increase mileage-wise, but a big time increase I'll wager.

But the WCML is a premium route. "Via Appleby" fares on some flows are much cheaper than the "Any Permitted" equivalents.

island · 9 Oct 2012

Goatboy said:
It's such a shame they do things like this. It seems a rather short termist view as it'll just turn more and more people off the idea of using rail. £1 a minute for a train ride... thats almost Heathrow Express levels of cost.

XC pricing people off their trains?

I don't believe it :roll:

tbtc · 9 Oct 2012

John55 said:
If Settle - Carlisle closed how could you catch a train from Settle? Stations further south such as Hellifield might see a change but I doubt it would be much as an alternative route is available and it isn't much longer.

I was just trying to come up with an example of a line that might have closed (but didn't), similar to the Matlock - Buxton route.

So, if the S&C had closed (as the 1980s plans wanted) you'd have had to travel south from Settle to Hellifield/ Leeds, then west to the WCML, then north to Carlisle. Would the fares have gone up between Settle & Carlisle in such a hypothetical scenario? That was my point.

yorksrob · 9 Oct 2012

I believe that the plan was for the entire Settle junction - Carlisle line to close with Giggleswick to become a sort of parkway for Settle. Thank goodness that never caught on !

pemma · 9 Oct 2012

Kier said:
However, you can still travel by train between them, the scenic way! Buxton-Stockport- Stoke on Trent - Derby - Matlock for a whopping £42 return and taking 3 and a half hours. Truly strange that they do a fare for such a route.

Is this the only instance of such a strange fare or can anyone give any more examples?

Greenbank-Hartford walking is 1 mile from one side of a village to another. By train it's 1hr26-2hr9 depending on the direction and costs £12.70-£20 single or £13-£38 return.

seawright · 9 Oct 2012

I know New Mills already had a mention but I like the cheek of the national rail website.
New Mills Central [NMC] to New Mills Newtown [NMN]
Cheapest Fare £10.90
Journey time 18 minutes
Changes 0
Method on foot

or

Journey time 2 hours 10 minutes
Changes 1
With half the journey time spent waiting at Manchester Piccadilly.

Matlock to Buxton

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