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Definition of an acceptable delay on a +connections ticket

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Scooby

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I wonder if someone may be able to offer me some advice.

In November, I'm travelling from Grange Over Sands to Richmond, London (to watch the England vs Fiji game, KO 14.30 at Twickenham).

I've got my Advance Tickets and they are VWC + Connections (incl the London Underground Symbol). We arrive at Euston at 10.15, which, in all honesty is far to early to make immediate arrangements to travel to Richmond (if we did, we'd be there about 11.15). What would be an accepatble delay for us to take at the Euston end, without taking the mick. I'm aware of the BOJ rules, but as the trip from Euston to Richmond will be made entirely on unreserved trains, Off Peak on a Saturday, does anyone really care ? I was thinking of having spending some time around the shops in Euston and having a meal in the Pub at Euston (obviously I wouldn't be leaving the station premises ;)), and then moving on to get to Twickenham for about 13.30.

Could someone share their thoughts with me ? If it affects things, its 4 adults and 4 children.
 
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DaveNewcastle

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EDIT: This post suggested that the OP might be more likely to fall foul of new Licensing regulations concerning children in pubs than experience any difficulty with the delay in completing their journey. However, my post caused offence for which I have apologised. The OP suggested editing our posts, and the OP has removed the reference to children. However, my reply has been quoted in its entireity and commented on by others so it would be bizzarre to leave it only in others' quotes. Therefore I am adding this introduction, changing the text in my original post to a grey colour, and have created a dedicated thread in the General Discussion Forum.

I'd be more concerned about these quoted remarks than about the delay in completing the journey:
. . . . . I was thinking of having a few pints in the Pub at Euston . . .
. . . . . .
. . . its 4 adults and 4 children.
The combination of children and adults in a pub has been connected to problems and consequencies to the extent that, since this April, the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Act has changed the 2003 Licensing Act (E&W) to ensure that the local Primary Care Trust and Child Protection Agency are statutory consultees in Licence applications, and I can assure people on here that, since then, Doctors with concerns for health and young persons are taking every opportunity to limit the exposure of children to the consumption of alcohol in Licensed Premises. (It's making my work more challenging! and possibly more lucrative. Perhaps I should declare a pecunary interest?)

There should be no problem in eating at Euston before continuing your journey to Richmond.
 
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yorkie

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I'm aware of the BOJ rules, but as the trip from Euston to Richmond will be made entirely on unreserved trains, Off Peak on a Saturday, does anyone really care ? I was thinking of having a few pints in the Pub at Euston and a meal (obviously I wouldn't be leaving the station premises ;)),...
You can eat/drink at any of the establishments at Euston [[stn]EUS[/stn]] or Waterloo [[stn]WAT[/stn]] providing you do not break your journey, as defined in the NRCoC. There is no "definition" of how long you can spend at either station but if you took too long, then in the unlikely event of your reservation coupon being inspected, it could be suspected that you had broken your journey and/or it could be argued that you are not adhering to the condition that you take "appropriate" connecting trains. I do not know what "too long" is, and I do not think you will get a precise definition.
 

A60K

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I'd be more concerned about these quoted remarks than about the delay in completing the journey:The combination of children and adults in a pub has been connected to problems and consequencies to the extent that, since this April, the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Act has changed the 2003 Licensing Act (E&W) to ensure that the local Primary Care Trust and Child Protection Agency are statutory consultees in Licence applications, and I can assure people on here that, since then, Doctors with concerns for health and young persons are taking every opportunity to limit the exposure of children to the consumption of alcohol in Licensed Premises. (It's making my work more challenging! and possibly more lucrative. Perhaps I should declare a pecunary interest?)
I think that's an unnecessary, and gratuitously offensive, reply to the poster. Perhaps in your experience there is a problem with some children being in some pubs with some adults, but it's not fair or polite to say what you said to someone you don't know.


 

oversteer

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Tangentially related, if you leave the main area of Euston to visit the outdoor concourse (Eds Diner is not bad if you have kids!) does this count as a BOJ?
 

John @ home

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if you leave the main area of Euston to visit the outdoor concourse ... does this count as a BOJ?
We don't know. We have had a similar debate in the past about leaving Leeds station to visit the adjacent Queens Hotel. It may depend on the precise boundary of railway property, which is not obvious to the casual visitor.

In practice, a passenger does not encounter any difficulty in either case.
 

Scooby

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--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
In practice, a passenger does not encounter any difficulty in either case.

With Euston not being barriers to prevent free movemnet around most of the area, I hoped/thought that would be the case. :D
 
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John @ home

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I think that's an unnecessary, and gratuitously offensive, reply to the poster.
I don't agree. In my opinion, post #3 is couched in polite language and is relevant to the content of post #1. For me, as a person who quite often takes two 4-year-olds to a station pub for late breakfasts, it is a useful warning of a change in policy by a government department.

This is an example of two government departments having contradictory policies. One encourages pubs to have menus appropriate for children in order to improve ambience and behaviour. The other seeks to remove children from pubs as part of a long-term drive to reduce alcohol consumption.
 

cuccir

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I don't agree. In my opinion, post #3 is couched in polite language and is relevant to the content of post #1. For me, as a person who quite often takes two 4-year-olds to a station pub for late breakfasts, it is a useful warning of a change in policy by a government department.
.

I disagree strongly - it clarifies nothing. All I get from it is that the PCT or similar bodies are to be given a say on licensing decisions - and that many are using this power. I don't see all how this licensing regulation relates to an individual's decision to visit a pub with children? With the exception, potentially, of a note that in future this may be more difficult if pubs find it in their interest to ban children. Unless I've missed something?

While regular forum users may be familiar with the way in which DaveNewcastle - usually in a very considered and extremely helpful way, I should add - tends to connect situations to their legal status due to his training/profession, the OP only has around 100 posts and may not be a regular visitor to the site. For someone who isn't it familiar with this background, it frankly comes across as very officious and unnecessarily jargonistic. Formal language is not necessarily polite language!

With regards to the OP's question - where's your ticket to? Is it to Richmond itself or to Tiwckenham? I'm just thinking that while I can see the attraction of staying at a large station building with a large group of people - different activities for different people - surely there's also an argument to be made for getting across London ASAP, to avoid any potential delays. There's shops/parks/places to eat in Richmond that you could then use, without worry and hassle of having to think about onward travel!
 

hairyhandedfool

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As far as the connection goes, I think the only thing we can claim information from is the T&Cs. For tickets routed '& Connections' you can use connecting services shown on the ticket or on a valid travel itinerary. Whilst we don't have a definition for the latter, I would suggest that a journey plan from an official ticket retailling website or NRES would do, and some of those can be made to be generous.
 

yorkie

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...not being barriered...
I have never heard of barriers being located at the boundary to railway property - how would passengers buy tickets? In any case you would not be breaking your journey taking a bus or taxi or even walking to Waterloo or walking to Euston Square (someone who has a fear of deep level tubes could take the Circle Line from Euston Square to Victoria - which is a perfectly valid cross-London transfer - and change at Clapham Jn, for example).
 

Scooby

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With regards to the OP's question - where's your ticket to? Is it to Richmond itself or to Tiwckenham? I'm just thinking that while I can see the attraction of staying at a large station building with a large group of people - different activities for different people - surely there's also an argument to be made for getting across London ASAP, to avoid any potential delays. There's shops/parks/places to eat in Richmond that you could then use, without worry and hassle of having to think about onward travel!


My ticket is to Richmond, and our intention is to get there in plenty of time to enjoy the atmosphere around the ground and seeing the place fill up. Half of our group haven't been to London before and it is a good opportunity to for them to see some of the sights. If I had asked about sightseeing for a couple of hour whilst we are there, posters would naturally have pointed me in the direction of BOJ, T&C's, breaches of contract etc, however, if we were to spend a couple of hours at Euston, enjoying the fine retail facilities and culinary excellance that was on offer their, noone would be any the wiser, as long as it is allowed by the +connections. We're into Euston at 10.12, Richmond is about 45mins to an hour away, with the shuttle bus taking 15 mins, KO is 14.30, so we've got quite a bit of 'slsck' built into the day.

I like Yorkies suggestion. Depending on the weather, it might be a nice idea to take the Northern Line, get off at Embankment and then walk to Victoria, via The Mall, or Vict Embankment/Whitehall etc.
& then onwards via Clapham Junction.

Coming back is a lot more straightforward (or it was until the unpleasant face of Bustitution reared its ugly and unwanted head !). Lots of time to get from Richmond to Euston, with time for a meal factored in (taking an earlier, unreserved train means nil complications on our Advanced tickets)
 
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Deerfold

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I think that's an unnecessary, and gratuitously offensive, reply to the poster. Perhaps in your experience there is a problem with some children being in some pubs with some adults, but it's not fair or polite to say what you said to someone you don't know.



You could argue it's unnecessary - it's rather more off topic than many of DaveNewcastle's often enlightening posts. Hardly offensive though, never mind gratuitously so.
 

DaveNewcastle

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I want to apologise for offence or distress arising from my post #3 in this thread. None was intended and I'm concerned to see that it was caused.

It never entered my mind to make a judgement about Scooby, the OP. But I was making a judgement, a comparison perhaps, between 2 risks arising from the OP's proposals:-
that the risk of falling foul of a rather vague ticketing rule enforced by a (perhaps inadequately trained) Railway Official would be less than the risk of falling foul of a new Licensing rule enforced by a (perhaps poorly trained) member of Bar staff.

Perhaps in your experience there is a problem with some children being in some pubs with some adults, but . . . . .
For clarity, the view I expressed here on children in pubs is one adopted by Government and enforced by statutory consultees. It is not mine.
I make no comparison between others' reported experiences and the OP.


I have moved the subject to a new thread here: Alcohol Licensing and children.
 
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Scooby

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Dave, how about I make a couple of edits, you make a couple of edits and everyone carries on getting along with each other ?
 

bb21

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Since the questions posed by the OP have been answered, the thread is locked.
 
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