Nottingham Station 6 week Blockade

MattE2010 said:

IIRC only a couple of trains a day now call at Langley Mill on the Liverpool-Norwich runs, the December 2008-introduced Leeds-Nottingham services now call hourly (before that I believe all LIV-NRW trains served Langley Mill). Both services still serve Alfreton.

Click to expand...

That's correct. Not many EMT services call at Langley Mill. There is the 19:52 off Lime Street which calls as Langley Mill at 22:12 in the Norwich direction and there is the service to London via Alfreton which calles at Langley mill at 8:06. On a Saturday it's the same. Sunday, a lot of the trains start at Manchester by the looks of it, and pretty much all of the Norwich departures after 3 call at Langley Mill.

In the Manchester direction, there is the 18:02 to Liverpool and thats it apart from the EMT HST services to Leeds which call there at 20:33 and 22:01 respectively. Saturday's the same apart from no 22:01 departure for Leeds from London. Sundays, pretty much all the services after 12:56 call at Langley Mill in the Manchester/Liverpool direction

12CSVT said:

"The next train to arrive on platform 13 will be the 13:42 East Midlands Trains service to East Midlands Parkway............"

Click to expand...

Unlikely, word on the ground is that Leicester TMD is going to be used in place of Eastcroft for a few weeks. Its too risky having everything on Etches Park incase a unit fails and blocks half of the fleet in.

I doubt there's space on Etches Park for everything that'd normally stable on Eastcroft anyway! Makes sense to outstable a few units at Leicester or elsewhere to ease the pressure on Derby.

Tomnick said:

I doubt there's space on Etches Park for everything that'd normally stable on Eastcroft anyway! Makes sense to outstable a few units at Leicester or elsewhere to ease the pressure on Derby.

Click to expand...

Best get some weedkilling and shrub clearance done at Leicester TMD then!

I don't know how many units you'd get in the TMD even with a bit of vegetation work! The carriage sidings and even the station itself would probably be better suited to stabling, with some perhaps going for fuel through the night. I've no idea what the actual proposal is though!

No room in the station with all of the XC units that stable. I suppose Humberstone Rd sidings could be used, but I understand the intention is to stable them on Leicester TMD for the 8-10 weeks it'll last for. Likewise I think a few more units than normal will stable at Boston/Lincoln.

That all makes sense, I suppose! Any idea how they're intending to get those units trapped at Lincoln and Boston back for maintenance? Going via Peterborough seems most likely to me.

I should imagine so, is there a fuelling point at Boston? If not I suppose there will be quite a few convoys running via Melton!

There used to be a fuelling point at Boston, and I think it's still there. I'm not sure that it's been used for a few years though!

Please tell me that while this lengthy blockade is in place that electrification masts will go up while they are at it to minimize disruption at a later date.

I doubt it - I'd be surprised if the necessary design work has been done yet, and in any case it's probably not possible to get in to do any electrification work without extending the possession or affecting the resignalling work (a fair bit of which will need to be 'wheels-free', I'm sure, for the S&T to do some of their stuff).

The road which East Midlands Parkway is situated on is the A453 which is just about to start extensive widening works

Project Details here: http://www.highways.gov.uk/roads/road-projects/a453-widening-m1-junction-24-to-a52-nottingham/

That road can be quite slow going at the best of times so don't hope for any super quick replacement buses.

Jamie said:

Unlikely, word on the ground is that Leicester TMD is going to be used in place of Eastcroft for a few weeks. Its too risky having everything on Etches Park incase a unit fails and blocks half of the fleet in.

Click to expand...

I'm not local, so I'm not totally sure what you mean... but

The next train to arrive on platform 13 will be the 13:42 East Midlands Trains service to Leicester....

Click to expand...

Would sound even stranger!

Thanks also, clearly, I've overestimated Langley Mill. It's just that that train you point out often departs immediately before mine at Manc... I think.

Tomnick said:

I don't know how many units you'd get in the TMD even with a bit of vegetation work! The carriage sidings and even the station itself would probably be better suited to stabling, with some perhaps going for fuel through the night. I've no idea what the actual proposal is though!

Click to expand...

Are the carriage sidings still in use?

starmill said:

Would sound even stranger!

Thanks also, clearly, I've overestimated Langley Mill. It's just that that train you point out often departs immediately before mine at Manc... I think.

Click to expand...

I don't think there is room at Leicester for another train to turn around, unless they cross over on approach to Platform 1 and use the top end while avoiding the xx35 Sheffield services.

I'm a bit confused by the reference to turning back trains at Leicester - other than early morning and late evening moves to/from stabling, has this actually been proposed?

RichmondCommu said:

Are the carriage sidings still in use?

Click to expand...

As far as I know! XC stable a fair few units there overnight, including those for the first few services off Notts and Derby, and EMT normally have one (but stabled a few 222s there too, during the recent disruption) and I think most shunt to the carriage sidings to do so.

The carriage sidings are in use as required. Most units stabling will stable in platforms 1 and 4 (generally 3 x 2 car and 2 x 3 car class 170s and 1 class 15x, during the week, usually a 156 although occasionally a 158, though it can vary). Each platform being able to fit 11 coaches means there is plenty of room.

If there is a possession on a platform road, the carriage sidings are used if needed to stable units. Carriage sidings 1 and 2 are for stabling TOC units (generally XC, quite often a 170 stays there for the weekend), and 3 and 4 are used for stabling on track plant, tampers and the like.

So yes, the long and short of it is the carriage sidings at Leicester are still in use, however stabling in the platforms is preferred because it is easier for the cleaners and fitters to access the trains to carry out fitness to run examinations.

There is also a road at the TMD used to stable a rake of cement wagons over the weekend.

I don't think there is any proposition to turn back services regularly at Leicester, but if there was, it's reasonably easily achieved, all platforms can be permissively worked and there's room for plenty of 15x and 170 units in each platform.

A few wee bits and pieces about this in today's Evening Post:

http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/S...y-stay-track/story-17947374-detail/story.html
http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/Signals-nearly-50-years-old/story-17947376-detail/story.html
http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/B...ecting-train/story-17947360-detail/story.html
http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/T...on-bus-stops/story-17947362-detail/story.html

Here we go: http://help.thetrainline.com/cgi-bi...~woHKv8SfsZvGjQa~yLxJvsq~3b~ghHb_Tr~&2=489093

Summary (20 July - 25 August)
- 7 buses per hour (bph) to EMD
- 4 bph to DBY
- 3 bph to BEE
- 3 bph to MFT
- 1 bph MFT - WRK
- 2 bph to NCT
- 2 bph to GRA
- Also buses EMD - NCT/GRA
- NRW - LIV diverted via EMD
- NO RHL trains (whoever was asking about it earlier in the thread)
- Stopping trains to operate BEE - DBY and LBO - LEI
NOT - GRA operates as normal train service until 2000 20-28 July and 10-23 August
NOT - NCT operates as normal train service until 2000 10-23 August only

Very interesting!

Assuming that the new Citylink bus service which starts next Monday is still operating then, it, together with the Red Arrow bus make twelve journeys per hour along the A52 and these rail replacements add another four, or eleven if the EMD buses use the A52 as far as Junction 25.

Should be quite a sight if traffic conditions make them get bunched together!

I see they have taken out the point at Lenton North Junction which used to go towards Lenton South. Will the remaining track become bidirectional and is another point being introduced further up the Mansfield/Trowell line?

Info from NR. Subject to change

Platform 6 at Nottingham will be renumbered platform 7 on night of 19/20 July ready for start of service and in this document it is referred to as platform 7. The platform will be long enough for a six coach train but on Saturdays it may be extended to HST length if required by EMT.

EAST SIDE OF NOTTINGHAM
Days 1 to 9 (20 to 28 July)Rectory Junction and Netherfield Junction boxes will still be open (but signalling disconnected on Lowdham line).
Passenger trains will operate from Grantham into Nottingham platform 7 between 0800 and 2000.
Line between Lowdham and Netherfield Junction under possession. Passenger trains from Lincoln to Nottingham will terminate at Newark Castle up platform and form a return service from that platform.

No trains will be stabled at Nottingham overnight.

Days 10 to 21 (29 July to 9 August)Rectory Junction and Netherfield Junction boxes now abolished.
Passenger trains terminate at Grantham.

Line between Lowdham and Netherfield Junction under possession. Passenger trains from Lincoln to Nottingham terminating at Newark Castle up platform and form a return service from that platform.

Days 22 to 34 (10 to 22 August).Netherfield workstation commissioned and all signals and level crossings working east of Sneinton. Signals NN4026 (and NN4019?) fixed at red due to no interface yet with Nottingham workstation.

Passenger trains will operate from Grantham and Lincoln to Nottingham station platform 7 between 0800 and 2000.

WEST AND NORTH SIDE OF NOTTINGHAM
Days minus 2 to +2 (18 to 21 July)After the departure of the train from McIntyre’s siding on Wednesday 17 July the Up Goods line between Mansfield Junction and Beeston South Junction will be under possession and no freight trains will be able to go to McIntyre’s siding.

Days 3 to 34 (22 July to 22 August)The new signalling in the Beeston area will be commissioned before start of service on day 3 and controlled from a temporary Beeston workstation at EMCC.
Some passenger trains from Leicester/Derby /Sheffield directions will terminate at Beeston and then proceed to the Down Nottingham Slow, Up Nottingham Slow or Run Round siding to reverse and then return to Beeston station for the return working.

Days 1 to 35 (20 July to 23 August) Passenger trains from Worksop/Mansfield will terminate at Hucknall then proceed to Bestwood Park loop to reverse and return to Hucknall for the return working.

Days 35 to 37 (23 to 25 August) All lines Attenborough/Trowell/Radford to Nottingham, Lowdham/Bingham will only be open for test train running.

Click to expand...

Days 1 to 35 (20 July to 23 August) Passenger trains from Worksop/Mansfield will terminate at Hucknall then proceed to Bestwood Park loop to reverse and return to Hucknall for the return working.

This is great news for me if it is true and arrangements don't change.
I'm travelling from Hucknall to Poulton Le Fylde (near Blackpool) on Thursday 25th July and returning on Saturday 3rd August.
I thought I was going to have to get a tram to Nottingham and then bus to Alfreton before I could begin my journey by train.

I was also suspecting that it would be more expensive than usual as Advance through tickets from Hucknall may not be available if there are no trains.
However, if I split tickets at Sheffield and travel via Leeds it does work out cheaper than the through ticket. I'm not in any hurry and so not bothered about long journey times.

Hucknall to Sheffield via Worksop - Off Peak Return £14.50
Sheffield to Poulton Le Fylde via Leeds - Anytime Return £34.40
Total - £48.90

Hucknall to Poulton Le Fylde - Off Peak Return £60.60

I don't think I will bother trying to get AP tickets from Sheffield to Poulton just in case when the time comes the Hucknall to Worksop service during this period is not reliable.

Bunting14 said:

I see they have taken out the point at Lenton North Junction which used to go towards Lenton South. Will the remaining track become bidirectional and is another point being introduced further up the Mansfield/Trowell line?

Click to expand...

The Lenton South curve becomes single track, bi-directional, and is known as Lenton curve.

The track between Trowell Junction and Mansfield Junction becomes bi-directional, and lenton curve leads from the right hand track towards beeston.

There is also a new x-over going in to allow trains from mansfield/trowell to cross over and go towards beeston.

MainFrame

Interesting discussion. I have just been reading the article about the resignalling of Nottingham Station in Modern Railways and a few of things have leapt out at me as I looked at the before and after proposed track layouts.

1. For the life of me I cannot understand WHY they are removing one of the through lines between the current platforms 3 & 4. I know that the other one is being lost to the new bay platform and shorten platform 4. But surely the removal of a potential bi-directional through line, clear of any platform will lead to a reduction of capacity at Nottingham Station.

2. On the proposed plan it seems that what is now platform 6, (to be platform 7) will only be accessible from the eastern end of the station. Is this a printers error, of is it yet again another reduction of capacity? IF it is the later, once more it seems as if "improvement equals reduction in service or capacity."

3. At Mansfield Junction, just after the junction it seems that once again they are planning a reduction in capacity. For a short stretch it seems as if the current 4 track route is to be reduced to a three track route for a short distance. This is on the Up Fast & Up Slow lines. Once again I don't understand the desire to reduce capacity. They did something similar at Hallgate Junction at York. Just recently corrected at great cost.

For some reason the people who redesign these track layouts seem to want to reduce capacity, especially if it is being followed by electrification. When will those who make these decisions realise that these reduction in capacity are a retrograde step, which can only be corrected at great cost.

The reason for all this work is supposedly to improve capacity due the the continuing increase in passengers, yet designers seem to be blinkered.

And as an aside, perhaps while all this 'improvement' is going on, they can sort at that chronic stupidity of that bay platform at Derby, at which passengers cannot get off the train under the canopy, because for some reason the gap on that side is a little wider that it should be, the contractors should have been made to correct this at THEIR cost.

It will be interesting to see what other supposed 'increases to capacity' will actually be a reduction, when carefully looked at.

To answer some of the above,

From Eastgate, all platforms accessible except the new platform 5 ( old 4)
From Beeston, all platforms accessible from all lines except 2.

Between Beeston ( where it widens to 4 tracks) and Nottingham all lines are bidirectional, and will be known as A B C D lines (instead of up slow, up fast etc)

This gives more capacity.

MainFrame

mainframe444 said:

To answer some of the above,

From Eastgate, all platforms accessible except the new platform 5 ( old 4)
From Beeston, all platforms accessible from all lines except 2.

Between Beeston ( where it widens to 4 tracks) and Nottingham all lines are bidirectional, and will be known as A B C D lines (instead of up slow, up fast etc)

This gives more capacity.

MainFrame

Click to expand...

Thanks for this, it certainly clears up the platform question. Obviously a printing error in Modern Railways. As a printer myself I know this can happen to even the best publications.

I understand what you are saying concerning the four tracks, but in looking at the track plan in Modern Railways, it clearly show that for a short section, on the Beeston side of Mansfield Junction, there will be a reduction from 4 down to 3 tracks and then back up to 4 tracks.

This is what I don't understand, if the process is hoped to improve capacity, how can a three track bottle neck help it?

It seems to be that someone had the bright idea (similar to single lead junctions) to do this to save money. While it will do this in the SHORT term, in the long term it will cost more to resolve.

As many lines and routes are filling up and in dire need of capacity increases, I really baffles be as to these negative reductions in capacity purpose, other than as I say short termism to save a few pounds.

lancastrian said:

I understand what you are saying concerning the four tracks, but in looking at the track plan in Modern Railways, it clearly show that for a short section, on the Beeston side of Mansfield Junction, there will be a reduction from 4 down to 3 tracks and then back up to 4 tracks.

This is what I don't understand, if the process is hoped to improve capacity, how can a three track bottle neck help it?

Click to expand...

The proposed layout at Mansfield Junction, I understand, is designed mainly to separate traffic from the two routes as far as possible - which will do wonders for capacity. Anything leaving from platforms 1 or 3 towards Radford Jn (usually the hourly Northern unit and some Worksops, at least) has to cross the Down Slow and Down Fast to gain the Up Fast, only to come back across the whole lot at Mansfield Jn. The goods lines west of Mansfield Jn don't see a huge amount of use, and anything recessed in there is far better off joining the "Down Beeston" line, once a path through the station is available, than it is fouling traffic both to and from Radford Jn.

What is likely to use Lenton South curve?

I thought that in recent years it's only use has been for turning HST's.

Tomnick said:

The proposed layout at Mansfield Junction, I understand, is designed mainly to separate traffic from the two routes as far as possible - which will do wonders for capacity. Anything leaving from platforms 1 or 3 towards Radford Jn (usually the hourly Northern unit and some Worksops, at least) has to cross the Down Slow and Down Fast to gain the Up Fast, only to come back across the whole lot at Mansfield Jn. The goods lines west of Mansfield Jn don't see a huge amount of use, and anything recessed in there is far better off joining the "Down Beeston" line, once a path through the station is available, than it is fouling traffic both to and from Radford Jn.

Click to expand...

Thanks for that, I am just trying to understand how it will all work once the redesign of Nottingham Station and its approach track are finished. I have only been through Nottingham rarely and don't have an understanding of the local conditions and factors, so I grateful for all comments. I do hope that it all works as expected and that there is an increase in capacity, especially after electrification there will be an increase of useage.