New Horn Regulations

Kris · 13 May 2007

As of about a month ago we have been forbidden from using the 2 tones of the horn unless we see someone on or about the line.

This means that whenever you see a train pass a whistle-board near a crossing - you should only hear a boring single low tone of the horn and not the familiar double note.

We are also banned from using it at any whistle-board now between the hours of 23.00 and 7.00.

It is quitw frightening coming round a bend at 80mph and only giving 1 low tone on the horn and no proper warning. The idea of the two-tone was so that people would register the difference.

RailUK Forums

Coxster · 13 May 2007

You had better keep your eyes peeled at night then Kris, particuarly at those unlit foot crossings. Not that I'm suggesting there's anything wrong with your driving at the moment of course!

DescendingSadly · 13 May 2007

*le sigh* someone changed the rule to justify their job have they?

Dennis · 13 May 2007

In these safety obsessed days, the revised horn regs seem a retrograde step.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_west/6646331.stm

Tom B · 13 May 2007

How stupid can you get? (c.f. Dennis' post).

It's people who buy a house next to the lines and then moan about the horn noise...

Kris · 13 May 2007

Dennis said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_west/6646331.stm

Well what a dopey cow! These crossings have signs warning drivers and phones to the signalman so you get permission to cross.

Of course ........... the papers wouldn't print that fact. Mustn't let it get in the way of sensationalism.

I've no doubt she knew that there was a railway line there but denied it later to cover her stupidity. (Diamond - cos women are safer drivers :lol:

How come they don't win the Formula 1 championships then?)

Dennis · 13 May 2007

To be fair to the young lady involved in this incident, how many motorists do know how to correctly use a crossing of this type?

At least she had the sense to stand clear and await the impact from a safe distance; I'm sure not all motorists would have reacted in that way.

voyagerdude220 · 13 May 2007

I was wondering why drivers haven't been blasting their horn at me any more..

It's even MORE essential to blast horns these days, especially with modern traction which can easily go along almost silently, and more faster than before.

I would have thought that with all this health and safety rubbish going on these days, that drivers would have to blast the horn more, when approaching crossings/ running express through stations.

devon_metro · 13 May 2007

I might make a case to ban acceleration!

The Snap · 13 May 2007

Absolute crap that.

If I ever become a driver, I'll be giving spotters a good toot regardless . :lol:

That really is a daft rule...:?

thefab444 · 13 May 2007

"I thought it was a dead end at first and then there was a little sign saying, if the light is green, open the gates and drive through."

Note she doesn't actually say the light was green, just the sign like said if like the green light is like on its like safe to cross.

voyagerdude220 · 13 May 2007

Rich said:
Absolute crap that.

If I ever become a driver, I'll be giving spotters a good toot regardless .

That really is a daft rule...:?

Nice to hear that!

1D53 · 13 May 2007

Kids playing with the horns on the trains today at the Huddersfield gala would sent the whingers crazy!

Crompton Karl · 13 May 2007

This is the most stupid rule i have ever heard!

I hope the drivers are ignoring it. Cause if they all ignore it then no one can be told off for doing so. ASLEF should really make a point to the stupid civil servants who have come up with this idea and advise their union members to ignore this new development.

Stupid flipping home owners who complain about the trains making noise should not move next to a Railway! The Railway was there before they were! But they whine and moan about the noise, the minute that someone dies because they didnt hear a train coming these very same people and civil servants will blame the railway. Its ridiculous!!!!!!!! Ohhhhhh this rule is getting me so angry!

What next, people living next door to heathrow complaining that the aircraft make too much noise and some civil servant authorising the aircraft to land with their engines turned off! Honestly, i cant believe this country and its silly little rules sometimes, as i have said before give me a tardis and i will go right back to the 80's when we didnt have stupid idiots making up rules like these.

Sorry if i rambled a bit.....

Karl

devon_metro · 13 May 2007

If I was a driver i would purposefully blast the horn on the sleeper service

DescendingSadly · 13 May 2007

Crompton Karl said:
This is the most stupid rule i have ever heard!

I hope the drivers are ignoring it. Cause if they all ignore it then no one can be told off for doing so. ASLEF should really make a point to the stupid civil servants who have come up with this idea and advise their union members to ignore this new development.

Stupid flipping home owners who complain about the trains making noise should not move next to a Railway! The Railway was there before they were! But they whine and moan about the noise, the minute that someone dies because they didnt hear a train coming these very same people and civil servants will blame the railway. Its ridiculous!!!!!!!! Ohhhhhh this rule is getting me so angry!

What next, people living next door to heathrow complaining that the aircraft make too much noise and some civil servant authorising the aircraft to land with their engines turned off! Honestly, i cant believe this country and its silly little rules sometimes, as i have said before give me a tardis and i will go right back to the 80's when we didnt have stupid idiots making up rules like these.

Sorry if i rambled a bit.....

Karl

calm down....

Heathrow and several airports have had to edit their SID/STARS and approaches to avoid noise over homes.

Coxster · 13 May 2007

Crompton Karl said:
the minute that someone dies because they didnt hear a train coming these very same people and civil servants will blame the railway.

Indeed - you just can't win.

Crompton Karl · 13 May 2007

What is SID/STARS?

Whatever they are, i dont think you got the point of my post. The point was i find these stupid and silly protocalls dished out by civil servants in whitehall, who only do these things to jusify their employment, an embarrasment to this proud nation. And i feel all the people who whine and whinge about noise from railways are just as ridiculously stupid.

Put it this way, if someone moved to a house next to Wembley, then complained about football fans, what do you think your advice would be? Mine would be 'Move you idiot!' Its exactly the same advice i have given to idiots who move next door to Railways or Airports and then complain about the noise.

I live about 100m away from Sole Street bank, in a village called Cuxton on the Chatam to Victoria line. My house is right by a very popular foot path level crossing, on a curve (Line speed is 90mph). I can honestly see a deaths happening on this crossing if this silly rule is adhered to. I have lived there since 1982 and dont remember there ever being an incident on this crossing when drivers were allowed to 2-tone. My father is a retired train driver who worked this line, he was amazed when i told him what the new regs were, his reaction was the same as mine.

I also lived for a short time with my fiancee, directly under the flightpath for Heathrow in osterley while at uni. Yes indeed i did get woken at 4.30 am by the planes taking off and landing, but i soon got used to it. Guess what i would have done if i couldnt get used to it.... I would have moved :lol:

Oh my god, i started rambling again :lol:

Sorry

Karl

Jim · 13 May 2007

Kris said:
As of about a month ago we have been forbidden from using the 2 tones of the horn unless we see someone on or about the line.

This means that whenever you see a train pass a whistle-board near a crossing - you should only hear a boring single low tone of the horn and not the familiar double note.

We are also banned from using it at any whistle-board now between the hours of 23.00 and 7.00.

It is quitw frightening coming round a bend at 80mph and only giving 1 low tone on the horn and no proper warning. The idea of the two-tone was so that people would register the difference.

Ah, I was wondering why my 444 driver yesterday was only using 1 tone!

Turbostar · 13 May 2007

Well, they still use two-tone down here. Trains approaching Tavistock Junction Exeter-bound nearly all toot their horns, & Plymouth-bound trains do the same.

Mart

Tom · 13 May 2007

It is dependant on what the OTMR records.

DescendingSadly · 13 May 2007

Crompton Karl said:
What is SID/STARS?

Karl

I actually agreed with you, SID/STARS are what a plane has to enter into it's computer for the takeoff/landing.

The 158 Man · 13 May 2007

Is it the high tone, or the low tone that must be used? Or does it not matter?

What a stupid rule! They won't be happy until there's more accidents!

Edit: - Can you imagine a 91 hurtling down the ECML and just giving it one tiny tap on the high note. You wouldn't hear it!

Tom · 13 May 2007

Not just 125mph trains (HSTs, etc)! I noticed today that the Desiros are extremely quiet until they're about 50m away from you, I certainly couldn't hear them when they were 100m away from me.

FWIW, they were accelerating away from Winchester on the down (couldn't hear them at all until they were by the curve) and braking towards Winchester when they were by the banner repeater. It was at St. Cross, FWIW. Drivers/photters should be familiar with the area...

ChrisCooper · 14 May 2007

SIDs and STARs are Standard Instrument Departures and Standard Terminal Arrival Routes, and are standard routes planes follow between the airport and an intersection with the main airways, or from the airways to a point where they are vectored (givern directions and altitudes) to landing. SIDs in particular are designed to reduce noise by avoiding overflying built up areas at low height, for example the Easterly SIDs from Heathrow involve sharp turns to the north or south to avoid overflying London. The Daventry 3P SID from runway 09 at East Midlands loops planes around the north, east and south of Loughborough, compared to the direct route straight over the town. They also specify minimum altitude at certain points since the higher planes are the less noise they produce on the ground (infact a plane taking off at full power and climbing fast has a lower noise footprint than one on low power climbing slow).
One big difference between train noise and plane noise though is that the combination of strict regulations for planes and noise abatement proceedures means that the noise effect from planes has dropped, or at least remained the same if increased traffic is taken into account. On the other hand, louder train horns have meant noise levels near railways have increased, and people who have lived with train noise for many years have only recently started having problems with it, since the introduction of new trains. When people move in near railways, airports etc and then moan about the noise, that's one thing, but a lot of the complaints about train horns are people who have lived there for many years, and only complained when new trains with louder horns were introduced.

taw valley · 14 May 2007

why not wirte to someone in the H&S department insted of complaing about it here ( not ment to be having a go at anyone in particular)

i mean i live about 300 yards from the mainline out of Clapham junction to woking and south . and to be honest its not difficult to just forget the sound is there . i can sit in my room at rush hour and hear the odd horn if im lucky .

people who move next to 100+ year old routes should find another hobby insted of complain about noise on something thats not there.

* starts to write letter to the bluntting department in H&S HQ as this will stop paper cuts happening as the paper goes though the system and into the bin*

Mojo · 14 May 2007

It depends on the area though. From my old house, I could hear the horn from the foot crossing by the former Aylesbury South station (on the Aylesbury - Princes Risborough line), presumably because the area is in a valley, the noise gets amplified, even though the crossing was about 2 miles from the house.

From the house I'm in at the moment, heard for the first time the other night a horn from a train somewhere between Stapleton Road & Filton Abbey Wood. Not entirely sure why I've never heard it before, but there are no whistle boards in the area AFAIAA so could have been track workers or something else.

ChrisCooper · 14 May 2007

taw valley said:
i mean i live about 300 yards from the mainline out of Clapham junction to woking and south . and to be honest its not difficult to just forget the sound is there . i can sit in my room at rush hour and hear the odd horn if im lucky .

The thing is though, trains around Clapham Junction don't have any reason to sound there horn normally, you'll probably get the odd one when there are workers on the track etc and that's about it. Also, being in a built up area building will deflect the sound or even block it entirely, and the ambient noise will be higher anyway so sound from trains won't make a difference. If you live in the country, near a level crossing etc, trains regularly blasting there horn will be much more of an issue. I think it's a particular problem at places where trains are going slow. People didn't seem to have a problem with the Slammer horns, it wasn't until the new trains started being introduced with louder horns that they started complaining. I have heard of people who don't live that near lines and never even heard trains before who now hear the horns clearly.

Crompton Karl · 14 May 2007

So why have the new trains been fitted with louder horns?

Karl

voyagerdude220 · 14 May 2007

Please will someone start a petition on the government's petition website (i can't remember what it is unfortunately) to get these stupid, dangerous new rules to be scrapped?

I bet if someone does start a petition, and every member on Rail UK, and Rail Chat signed it, there would hopefully be quite a few people on it.

New Horn Regulations

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