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Major incident: Train derailed 23 Jan 13 in Manchester

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Francis

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Now they've got overhead wire problems at Euxton, and the line from Wigan NW to Euxton Jc is closed. Euston-Glasgows terminate at Warrington Bank Quay, Glasgow-Eustons terminate Preston. Everyone's supposed to transfer to the Glasgow -Birminghams which are diverting via Manchester and Crewe. Putting more trains through Salford Crescent and Piccadilly platforms 13/14. Good job this didn't happen two days ago. They'd have had to send everyone via the East Coast or Settle-Carlisle.
 
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ole man

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There are major ole problems just north of Wigan, wire has been down since 00.30 last night.
A passenger train ran over the wire which had come down before it passed and wrapped the wire around the train all passengers had to be de trained.
 
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Good to see that nobody was injured. Have to say, while it's a pity about the rear loco, the fire service seem to have done a good job in ensuring that the fire didn't spread to the carriages. As a volunteer with a heritage TOC I appreciate how loss of carriage stock alone could cripple such an organisation.

Out of interest, how much does a carriage go for
 

fgwrich

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Indeed they are.
But a 100 tonne loco resting on the fuel tank as it is dragged along a running line (remember nearly all the weight of the loco will effectively be resting on the bit of fuel tank in contact with the rail) will eventually rupture it and there will be a lot of friction involved will cause a fire, if the fire has originated at that point and not on the bogie (no further comment on that ;))

Change of that theory. I've just had a look at a few pics on the net of poor 47500 which would indicate that whilst the underslung gravity fed Fuel Tanks may be dented, they look pretty much in tact. So, the fire seems more likely however to have been caused by the rupturing of the pipework leading from the internal tanks. Told you they were made of solid stuff!

47500 has now been moved inside the MOSI site by the way, were it is now under investigation by the RAIB.
 

1978NWUK

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Any idea which passenger train was involved in that incident ?

Northern rail diesel, haven't got a clue what class though!, it made a right mess
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
There are major ole problems just north of Wigan, wire has been down since 00.30 last night.
A passenger train ran over the wire which had come down before it passed and wrapped the wire around the train all passengers had to be de trained.

How did you find this out?
 

1978NWUK

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His username - ole man - may hold clues! ;)

It doesn't really sound like it would be confidential information, anyway, even if privately-stored.

It was ironic sarcasm aimed at ole man, I wouldn't of expected anyone else to know it was sarcasm except himself as it was me that informed him in the first place ;)!!
 
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6Gman

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Now they've got overhead wire problems at Euxton, and the line from Wigan NW to Euxton Jc is closed. Euston-Glasgows terminate at Warrington Bank Quay, Glasgow-Eustons terminate Preston. Everyone's supposed to transfer to the Glasgow -Birminghams which are diverting via Manchester and Crewe. Putting more trains through Salford Crescent and Piccadilly platforms 13/14. Good job this didn't happen two days ago. They'd have had to send everyone via the East Coast or Settle-Carlisle.

Nah!

Preston - Chorley - Bolton (rev) - Wigan NW (rev) and off you go!
 

furryfeet

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Now they've got overhead wire problems at Euxton, and the line from Wigan NW to Euxton Jc is closed. Euston-Glasgows terminate at Warrington Bank Quay, Glasgow-Eustons terminate Preston. Everyone's supposed to transfer to the Glasgow -Birminghams which are diverting via Manchester and Crewe.
Why are Virgin so poor when anything goes wrong ?
What is stopping them diverting the London to Glasgow trains via Manchester, which has happened in times past, when the WCML is closed between Crewe and Preston ?
 

455driver

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Why are Virgin so poor when anything goes wrong ?
What is stopping them diverting the London to Glasgow trains via Manchester, which has happened in times past, when the WCML is closed between Crewe and Preston ?

Drivers/ guards route knowledge would be my first thought.
Lack of available paths would be my second.
 

D1009

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Why are Virgin so poor when anything goes wrong ?
What is stopping them diverting the London to Glasgow trains via Manchester, which has happened in times past, when the WCML is closed between Crewe and Preston ?
Possibly because it's easier to divert the Birminghams because they're diesel worked? In the future it might be different.
 

Phil6219

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With regards to the overhead wires problems in the Wigan area I was at Kearsley on Saturday morning for the steam special and a couple of Voyagers went past in both directions, two northbound and one southbound. A DRS Zombie went south too, turned out it hauled the nortbound sleepers from Crewe.

I don't think it comes down to much more than lack of Thunderbirds in the area to keep any remotely decent service running, I mean instead of using the DRS 57 at Preston it was sent Light Engine to Crewe to haul the sleepers which frankly could have been dragged by a number of diesel locos already at Crewe. I think there may be a some truth in the "lack of paths" as I'm not sure if the line at Ordsall Lane Jnc was repaired and open at that time.

Phil 8-)
 

snail

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I think there may be a some truth in the "lack of paths" as I'm not sure if the line at Ordsall Lane Jnc was repaired and open at that time.
Could the Voyagers have got through if it wasn't?

But much simpler to run buses up the M6 at short notice than arrange for Pendolinos to be dragged through Manchester!
 

1978NWUK

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i did wonder but glad i wasnae the only one to post up how to do it lol:D also was a good point to mention the confidentiality as you did. also not a dig at anyone as it can seem fairly harmless info that some may want to post but you never know what others deem better to have been kept in house till everything is revealed in full.

an yep as you say logs can be inaccurate as they are based on reports as they come in and we all know how things can change as investigations look further into things.

I'll second that, some things that go public, don't always reflect what's in the logs!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Aha!

No wonder I got confused! ;)

No probs
 

Phil6219

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Could the Voyagers have got through if it wasn't?

Yes they could, it would be possible to run a northbound train into Piccadilly, then reverse it out via Ardwick round via Miles Platting and through Manchester Victoria. The Southbound's could do this in reverse. The same move was taken a few days earlier by a 31 on a test train.

The line was handed back at 15:48 (or thereabouts).

Though that would suggest they must have been doing the aforementioned manoeuvre as the voyagers I saw running past me were between 07:40 and 08:30.

Phil 8-)
 

rebmcr

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Yes they could, it would be possible to run a northbound train into Piccadilly, then reverse it out via Ardwick round via Miles Platting and through Manchester Victoria. The Southbound's could do this in reverse. The same move was taken a few days earlier by a 31 on a test train.

Are there anywhere near enough drivers who sign that route and sign Voyagers?
 

Phil6219

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Possibly, Virgin have a base nearby which granted I think only sign 390s but maybe if they had one riding along as a conductor maybe?

Otherwise how else would they get through if the line wasn't handed over until the afternoon, short of running wrong road past the site?

Phil 8-)
 

hairyhandedfool

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.....Though that would suggest they must have been doing the aforementioned manoeuvre as the voyagers I saw running past me were between 07:40 and 08:30.

Phil 8-)

I think you misunderstand me. Ordsall Lane was given back at 1548ish on the 25th (Friday), the Wigan incident happened later (evening of 25th/morning of 26th) as I understand it.

The line through Salford Central is currently single track because plain line has temporarily replaced a crossing on the northbound line. It would not have been possible to run Voyagers along that line in addition to the trains operating on it, if it had been, more services would already have been using it (TPE terminated trains at Preston and Salford Crescent, Northern services from Wigan and Southport were terminated at Salford Crescent and trains from Kirkby didn't get past Wigan).
 

TDK

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Possibly, Virgin have a base nearby which granted I think only sign 390s but maybe if they had one riding along as a conductor maybe?

Otherwise how else would they get through if the line wasn't handed over until the afternoon, short of running wrong road past the site?

Phil 8-)

I am not certain but I think all VT drivers sign both voaygers and pendo's, maybe a VT driver could enlighten us
 

Phil6219

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I think you misunderstand me. Ordsall Lane was given back at 1548ish on the 25th (Friday), the Wigan incident happened later (evening of 25th/morning of 26th) as I understand it.

Yeah that's my mistake.

True it would have been a big ask to squeeze voyagers through considering the problems with the Northern Rail services to & from Victoria.

Phil 8-)
 

merlodlliw

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On this weeks North Wales Rail newsboard, the editor as put up a video of the train a minute or so before the fire, he was filming at Piccadilly Station when it passed. "Derailment and Fire at Ordsall Lane - report by Charlie Hulme"

On Wednesday 23 January at 14:25 I happened to be at Manchester Piccadilly station with my video camera, expecting to capture a Freightliner Class 66 passing on the way from Crewe to collect the 15:18 Trafford Park - Southampton. Instead, I was surprised to see a a West Coast Railways train of five empty carriages led by 47 854 Diamond Jubilee and 47 500. Later, I discovered that the carriages were returning to Carnforth after having their wheels re-profiled on the Alstom wheel-lathe at Ardwick.

I video-ed that train, and the 66 which followed a few minutes later, then travelled to Mauldeth Road to do a little shopping at B & Q and film the loaded Freightliner train. When I returned to Manchester, however, I found the train service in the Salford and North Wales directions in a state of collapse. It transpired that 47 500 had derailed while the West Coast Railway Co. train was traversing the line from Deansgate towards Ordsall, and spilled diesel fuel had caught fire, with the result that the line was blocked. The fire brigade had attended the fire and sprayed considerable amounts of foam on to and into the loco.

Rumours of the cause began to spread, some of which suggested that the parking brake of 47 500 had been left on when the train left Ardwick. This inspired me to upload a clip from my video to Twitter, where it rapidly achieved 2600 viewers, including, I understand, the investigator from the Rail Accident Investigation Branch.

The line remained blocked, with trains from North Wales turning back at Newton-le-Willows - a few ran to Chester via Northwich - all the next day, and on the night of Thursday / Friday, 47 500 was listed by two rail-mounted cranes and moved to the siding connecting the Museum of Science and Industry, which as it happens was directly opposite. The line opened again on Friday afternoon, and over the weekend the loco was dragged into the Museum yard by the Museum's battery loco, which we hear has recently been fitted with new batteries. The next step was to remove it by road.

link for video http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm
 

fgwrich

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On this weeks North Wales Rail newsboard, the editor as put up a video of the train a minute or so before the fire, he was filming at Piccadilly Station when it passed. "Derailment and Fire at Ordsall Lane - report by Charlie Hulme"



link for video http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm

He might need a slight hint tough - Ardwick is a Transpennine Express Depot - Built, maintained and run by Siemens.
 

Pumbaa

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I am not certain but I think all VT drivers sign both voaygers and pendo's, maybe a VT driver could enlighten us

All depots sign and should have scheduled turns on both (I'm fairly sure). Whether or not all drivers do though... ;)

Picc do the North Wales runs shared with Liverpool. Euston/Wolves have work in the Preston/Euston/Wolves triangle. Preston and Scottish depots obviously have hourly Voyagers on the mainline. In theory a Voyager could turn up vice Pendo and still run.
 

TomW

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I vaguely remember there being a similar incident that morning (or at some point that week) involving an empty passenger train derailing at Deansgate and all services from Earlestown-Picc/Salford being cancelled, correct me if I'm wrong.
 
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