YP Railcard

voyagerdude220 · 21 May 2007

Hi all,

I'm just adding a poll, to see how many members think that YP railcard holders should get a 34% discount on FC tickets, and not just SC tickets.

After all, Senior railcard holders etc do, so why not YP holders?

The Poll will be closed when i think that there's been a good amount of votes given.

RailUK Forums

Ascot · 21 May 2007

Yes

Just we're all ASBOs so we'll trash the place.

devon_metro · 21 May 2007

Don't see why not.

Gizmogle · 21 May 2007

Ascot said:
Yes

Just we're all ASBOs so we'll trash the place.

Exactly what I was thinking.

Although...most of us don't have the time for trains as we're usually busy mugging the elderly.

Does anyone else get that kinda attitude from rail staff? A kind of "ugh, teenagers" attitude.

CraigS · 21 May 2007

I thought it was 20% discount not 34%. Still does sound like a goof idea having 34% discount off of first class tickets.

Ascot · 21 May 2007

Gizmogle said:
Exactly what I was thinking.

Although...most of us don't have the time for trains as we're usually busy mugging the elderly.

Does anyone else get that kinda attitude from rail staff? A kind of "ugh, teenagers" attitude.

Yeah unless i'm goin to SVR... then it's a different ball game

tubenutter · 21 May 2007

I think it would be a good idea to get FC discounts on YP, but I don't think Id use them as I always get the cheapest ticket possible (I can't really afford to do otherwise) no matter how good value things are.

Jim · 21 May 2007

Gizmogle said:
Does anyone else get that kinda attitude from rail staff? A kind of "ugh, teenagers" attitude.

Darn right I have had that! It's like, so sterotypical!

Techniquest · 21 May 2007

I support the idea, although how much I'd use it is an entirely different matter!

Coxster · 21 May 2007

It'd be nice to have the option

Max · 21 May 2007

Gizmogle said:
Does anyone else get that kinda attitude from rail staff? A kind of "ugh, teenagers" attitude.

When I was travelling on Virgin, and when I have gone first class on Hull Trains alone before, I never had such problems. However, when I was buying a first class ticket once at Hull Station, the woman looked confused and said, 'Oh, I didn't realise they let kids in first class!'

Gizmogle · 21 May 2007

Yeah, they're mostly alright.
But, for example, my dad can use his priv without a single date filled in and no one bothers him. But with me, they're all on some crazy power trip and threaten to cross all the boxes off :???: ...which they wouldn't dream of doing to someone their own age.

Nick W · 21 May 2007

I would oppose this on economic grounds. The YP railcard probably increaes revenue overall, since it makes off-peak rail more affordable for youths, increasing usage by youths. However the sort of youths who could afford first class with 34% off would probably pay the current price. Therefore income would be lost overall.

ChrisCooper · 22 May 2007

Then again, people could decide to go First Class who otherwise wouldn't have, making more money. Currently, a 1st ticket costs a lot more than a standard with YP discount, for example if I was going from Loughborough to London, a Standard Saver Return would be £29.30 (with railcard), wheras a 1st Saver Return would be £112. A discounted first would be £73.30, still a lot, but saving nearly £40 by having the railcard.
Anyway, the same argument could be givern for the types that do give discounts in 1st, an elderly or disabled person who can afford to travel discounted in 1st class might also be able to afford to pay the full price, and actually, the same argument can apply to any discount.
Of cource, 1st class fares are mostly on Intercity routes, which don't exactly struggle for revenue anyway.

Crompton Karl · 22 May 2007

Noooooooooooo stay in the slums you ASBO taunting hoodlums! :lol:

No only kidding i think that there should be a YP discount. There is in France if you hold the Carte 12-25 (their equivalent card) and it also allows 50% off in the off peak with 25% in the peak period. Their peak periods are different too, the peak is only 3 times a week Monday 0600 - 1000, Friday 1500 - 1900 and Sundays 1500 - 1900.

Karl

taw valley · 22 May 2007

is it me or does the YP card try to charge you a 1/3 more in the rush hour?

yorkie · 22 May 2007

taw valley said:
is it me or does the YP card try to charge you a 1/3 more in the rush hour?

CDRs are not available before certain times (typically 09:30 in the South East but it does vary), SDRs cost more. Additionally, before 10:00 there is a minimum fare using a Y-P of £8 for Saver Returns and also £8 for all singles, but this rises to a whopping £16 for nearly all other return tickets (There is a full list in the NFM).

So, for someone holding a Y-P wanting to go from York to Leeds at 08:00, the conversation may go something like this:
"Day return to Leeds with a Y-P, please"
"Sorry sir, you can't get a railcard discount on that fare, that will be £11.30 please"
"Is there no Saver return then?"
"No sir"
"Oh, in that case I want a Saver return to Hebden Bridge (twice the distance)"
"£8.60 please"
:lol:

However I'd not have that exact convo with them, as a jobsworth may say "You cannot break your journey on an outward Saver, and I think you are going to do so at Leeds so I am refusing to sell it" which, in theory, they can't do but in practice they can get away with. So I'd not admit to them I was breaking my journey. The barrier staff at Leeds won't bat an eyelid, besides you CAN walk beyond the barrier for the purposes of visiting station facilities (it's only a "break" of journey if you exit the station building, but they can't stop you doing that), and when you return you'll be showing your return portion anyway which is valid for a break of journey.

Note that some people say ending short is not a "break" of journey and that the above paragraph is irrelevant as the NCoC suggests terminating short is allowed regardless, but that's not a convo I'd have with ticket issuing staff.

Techniquest · 22 May 2007

The minimum fare levels need to be lowered more than anything I believe. Minimum fare of £8 on a Saver Return (is that after or before discount?) is not so bad, but on CDS/R(if you can get the former from a ticket office keep hold of it!), SDS/SDR or whatever else is just not fair!

Case in point: Last Thursday I went up to Craven Arms (then onto Bucknall on the HoW, purely to visit stations). I decided not to book to Bucknall as the next train to Craven Arms was late and, this being Arriva, the odds were the HoW unit would go in front. Therefore I resolved to purchase on-board the HoW 153 (rarely anything else), as Craven Arms has no ticket office or machine (I did check). Full-fare SDS comes to £8.20. I checked for the Y-P price. £8. Ooh, big saving!

What train was I getting? The 0541 (at which time I'd have no argument buying a full-fare SDS!)? No. 0756 (still reasonable to sell a SDS at this time although I depise it a lot)? No. The 0856 HFD - MAN. This is NOT a peak train, indeed it wasn't very full at all, especially as it was run on this occasion by 175103.

What point am I making? Simple, that it is in my eyes unfair not to allow Y-P holders to use their Y-P at that time of day, or if they allow it they should have the proper discount level!

paul1609 · 22 May 2007

I think it is the case that Young persons railcards will be shortly be phased out due to the government policy on age discrimination. Senior Citizens Railcards will become pension recipiant railcards to get round the new legislation

voyagerdude220 · 22 May 2007

Many thanks for the 30 votes so far.

Is there a way for me to see who has voted?

yorkie · 22 May 2007

paul1609 said:
I think it is the case that Young persons railcards will be shortly be phased out due to the government policy on age

What about child tickets, and Central's "over 50s" deals?

Mintona · 22 May 2007

I voted no, as I think that it's fair enough to travel cheaply in standard, but I feel there is a sort of 'etiquette' to travelling in First, and if everyone else is gonna pay full whack to go there, you should too.

ChrisCooper · 22 May 2007

That argument would be fair if no railcards gave discounts, but the main issue is that Senior, Disabled Adult and some other railcards do give discounts in first class, wheras Young Persons, Family, Disabled Child and a few other railcards don't. Discounts should be given to all Railcard holders or none at all. Perhaps the biggest demonstration of the unfairness of the situation is that a 16-25 year old with a YP railcard would not get a discount on 1st, but a 16-25 year old with a disabled railcard would.

Gizmogle · 23 May 2007

alistairtrainfanman said:
I voted no, as I think that it's fair enough to travel cheaply in standard, but I feel there is a sort of 'etiquette' to travelling in First, and if everyone else is gonna pay full whack to go there, you should too.

But it could encourage other people to get railcards. Plus it could save a few seats in standard when they're needed.

Techniquest · 23 May 2007

Etiquette, yes this is believable. If you ask for a First Class ticket and happen not to be wearing a suit they'll look at you incredibly funnily...More so on the train itself in First Class...

Of course, at weekends it's a bit of a free-for-all anyway, what with it being full of bloody kids...And don't these families make a horrendous amount of mess...I would never have been allowed to make the mess today's kids do when I was the same age. If we could have afforded to upgrade to First Class back then (no chance), we'd be made to behave in a manner that suits the mood and class such things offer. Not today's parents...:roll:

Daniel · 23 May 2007

I hate that stereotype.

I generally travel first class on First Great Western.

When I'm going out, I generally wear casual clothes.

I may be 15, but you do still get that "He shouldn't be in here! Guard, come quick!" look from other passengers - (this being when travelling on weekdays).

However when I'm working on-train, passengers see me in a uniform, and don't even question the fact that someone who could, quite possibly be perceived as a child, asking to see their £100+ first class ticket!

I am still a child, as stated by law. However, I don't and never have made a "mess" of First Class. When travelling alone I normally plug in a laptop and do some work; with someone else we just have a quiet conversation, (when not in the quiet coach). It really is a rather annoying stereotype. One Thursday during my placement at St. Pancras, i'd just got back from working a HST from Sheffield and was heading home. Going down the escalators there was an elderly woman who had been on the train who was with a man who looked around 30. He asked how her journey had been, and she replied "Oh, lovely, apart from two young children mis-behaving in first class!"
The children in question I had spoken to, just in friendly conversation. They weren't in a quiet coach, but were in First, and had a valid ticket. They were coming to London to visit a friend. Both seemed quite young, a bit younger than me, in fact, around 13. Simply because I appreciate it when I am travelling alone, I kept an eye on them throughout the journey.
I didn't see them do a single thing wrong. They didn't take anything of the complementary basket, when they wanted someone they'd come up to the buffet, and ask politely. When the float ran out of 10p's they offered to change a pound for some. In short, they were doing nothing wrong, yet just because they were in a First Class section they were deemed to be "mis-behaving".

Really annoys me!

Sorry, I know that was a bit off topic.

Techniquest · 23 May 2007

Please don't assume I class all kids as mis-behaving idiots, especially when in First Class. As always, it's the minority who ruin it for the majority.

Trust me, if you saw the mess and heard the noise some people make in First Class you'd understand my attitude there. Which is why I prefer to go for Coach H.

I know you behave in First Class memorex, as I've travelled with you in First Class! I admit, that evening I made more mess in First Class than you did, that's for sure! I'm not immune to it, but that plastic glass on the floor is nothing compared to the pig-sty some people leave behind.

Max · 23 May 2007

memorex, I didn't think you could get work experience placements to work on board the train when you're under 18. I thought there were some kind of health and safety laws (or that's what I was told :confused

.

How did you manage to get one?

Tom · 23 May 2007

Damon did work experience on the trains... so I guess it's all based on Health and Safety.

ChrisCooper · 23 May 2007

I think the fact that you arn't being paid for work experiance makes a big difference, really it comes under the same sort of regulations as similar work at preserved railways etc, where usually you have to be 14 or over to do "dangerous" work. Oviously, safety critical work is another matter, and you usually have to be 18 for that, but thats generally things where you are responsible for the safety of others (e.g you shouldn't be able to give the starting signal or things like that). It all comes down to child labour laws, and the irony is that paying children to do a lot of work is illigal, but getting them to do it for free (slave labour) is fine. Many of the jobs people do on work experiance would be illigal if they were being paid.

YP Railcard

Should YP railcard holders get a 34% discount on FC tickets?

Yes

No

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