New London Underground trains: Your thoughts

ryan125hst · 9 Feb 2013

I have been looking at the London Underground on the internet a lot lately, probably brought on by the fact that I am going to London with my family for a few days in the summer, and thought I would share a few thoughts with you and ask for your opinions.

Last time I went on the London Underground, back in 2009, I travelled on the Victoria line on the old 1967 Stock. Of course, these trains have now been replaced by the new 2009 Stock. The year before, I went to London with my family for a few days and travelled on the Circle and District lines as well, lines that are to receive the new S Stock trains over the next few years.
As I was watching a few You Tube videos, I had mixed emotions for the new trains. The old trains with noisy compressors, DC motors, clicking resistor controls and humming motor alternators give the London Underground its character. I have never travelled on a new (post 1990) London Underground train, so my relatively limited memories of the London Underground (which in addition to what I have mentioned above also includes the Piccadilly line about ten years ago) are restricted to the older trains.

However, I am also excited about the new trains as they will give passengers a far better experience with their faster acceleration, smoother ride, and even air conditioning on the sub-surface lines! The new trains and signalling will also allow greater frequencies, so it will be far better for passengers.

So, I was wondering: How do you feel about the disposal of the 1967 stock, A60/62 stock, and the C69/77 stock? Are you sad that these trains are being scrapped? Are you glad to see them go and feel that it is about time the trains, some of which were over 50 years old, were replaced? Or are you like me and have mixed emotions about it all?

Ryan

RailUK Forums

Tubefan2013 · 9 Feb 2013

I have only been on the 1967 stock a handful of times when i went to London a few years ago. I personally liked them with the nice motor noise and the camshaft clicking noises. They were fast and literally shaking its self to pieces at times, although the new 2009 stock is probably faster top speed and is more efficent compared to the 67 stock.

As for A60/62 stock i have only been on them once in 2010. I only went one stop between Finchely road and Baker street so i was not on them long enough to give my honest opinion on them, however they did seem old. C77 stock i must admit i am not a big fan of! The motors can sound a bit like a washing machine! You are quite right about the trains being old however for their age from 45-50 years old they are and have done a great service looking back. Hopefully the new generation of stocks will serve passengers well for the next 40 years or so!

317666 · 10 Feb 2013

Personally I think it's a shame to see the old stock going. I have many memories of using them all as a kid, and I don't really like the new stock at all with their very loud, patronising announcements, and loud beeping noises when the doors open. As mentioned in the original post, the classic sounds of DC motors, ticking camshafts, roaring compressors and whining M.A fans are all a part of the London Underground's atmosphere. I was on the last 1967 Stock on the Victoria line, and the last A Stock in service on the Metropolitan (didn't do the farewell tour for that as I thought it was too expensive for what it was). I'm hoping to be on the last C Stock when that runs in a few years' time, C Stock have always been my favourite sub-surface stock. 1967 Stock was my favourite tube stock.

Class 33 · 10 Feb 2013

I really miss the old 1962 Central Line stock. Going on them was a real experience. They should have preserved one or two complete trainsets, to run on occasional enthusiasts specials! The 1992 stock that replaced them are bland sterile and charactorless in comparison.

To a lesser extent I miss the old 1967 Victoria Line Stock and the Metropolitan Line A Stock. But I actually quite like their replacements the 2009 stock and S8 Stock which replaced them.

For me travelling on the London Underground hasn't been the same since the demise of that amazing strong musty smell that was there up till about the mid 90's.

bronzeonion · 10 Feb 2013

Yeah I was sad when the A60/62's went. The new trains are damn awful

Peter Mugridge · 10 Feb 2013

Class 33 said:
For me travelling on the London Underground hasn't been the same since the demise of that amazing strong musty smell that was there up till about the mid 90's.

Not quite the same thing, but the Bakerloo platforms at Piccadilly Circus always seem to smell of gas and at Waterloo always seem to smell of wet cheese. No idea why it's just the Bakerloo parts of each that smell like that though!

W.Tregurtha · 11 Feb 2013

As a fairly regular L.U.L. user I have to say the new trains on the Victoria line and the Metropolitan line are really nice. They're bright and welcoming unlike the somewhat industrial soviet style old ones on the Metropolitan line and the rocking and rolling ones on the Victoria line. These Victoria line ones are faster too I've noticed (or perhaps they just accelerate and brake better).

Nym · 11 Feb 2013

bronzeonion said:
Yeah I was sad when the A60/62's went. The new trains are damn awful

Care to elaborate on why these larger, faster, air conditioned trains are "Damn Awful"?

bronzeonion · 11 Feb 2013

Nym said:
Care to elaborate on why these larger, faster, air conditioned trains are "Damn Awful"?

They are actually smaller.

Well the train itself is an insult to London Transport design, just look at it! The doors are crappy, I'm not a driver but I'm not a fan of the cab.

Tubefan2013 · 11 Feb 2013

I can't understand why some people think the new trains 2009/S8/7 stock is " Damn awful"
Yes they may not have as much character as the old trains, but they are most certainly more passenger friendly. The old trains may be more reliable such as less to go wrong, 2009 and S stocks have probably got more to go wrong but lately they seem to be reliable juging by TFL service updates lately- No minor delays ect.

tom1649 · 11 Feb 2013

I agree, the older London Transport designed stock had/has so much more character. The new AC traction equipment may be more efficient but it's really boring to listen to.

Now they're talking about replacing DC motors with AC on older mainline trains too. Where will I get my DC motor fix from then? :cry:

W.Tregurtha · 11 Feb 2013

tom1649 said:
I agree, the older London Transport designed stock had/has so much more character. The new AC traction equipment may be more efficient but it's really boring to listen to.

Now they're talking about replacing DC motors with AC on older mainline trains too. Where will I get my DC motor fix from then? :cry:

Some of us just want to travel as comfortably, cheaply and efficiently as possible. We're not all train spotters.

Mikey C · 11 Feb 2013

The A stock was a sad loss, there was something about bouncing along on a top speed that brings back happy memories for me! The S8s don't feel so special, but the aircon is very nice on a hot day. I can't say I feel the same about the C stock though, and can't wait for the replacement S7s! The S stock does feel like a bit of a compromise between the A, C and D stock though.

I'm very happy with the 95s on the Northern Line, and would consider them in nearly all respects a great improvement on the 59s and 72s. While the 67s have gone, you can still experience much the same experience on the Bakerloo line with its 72s; the 09s due to their slightly larger diameter have much better headroom near the door openings.

jon0844 · 11 Feb 2013

It's always sad from a sentimental point of view to see old things go, but for most people the new trains (even with Bombardier's questionable quality control) are a massive improvement in just about every department.

I have fond memories of the 'new' 317s as a teenager and always being excited to get one of these instead of a slam door train (which to me, I would never miss) but while I believe they have plenty of life left in them - few people will shed a tear when they go or are replaced by shiny new trains with brighter interiors, a smoother and quieter ride, air conditioning etc.

WinterChief · 11 Feb 2013

I think this is a good question. Enthusiasts often see things through a rose tinted pair of eyes. People get used to or grow up with certain stocks and aren't happy when something is changed.

It will indeed be sad that the A Stock, 67 Stock and soon enough C Stock will go. But on the other hand look at how TfL have transformed the Victoria Line.

Trains are no longer as hot and sweaty, the journey times have decreased, better lighting, trains accelerate and brake quicker, signalling sections are smaller, more information is given automatically, smoother rides and of course the tph on the line is now the most intensive on all of LU. Whilst they still are perfecting the timetable to take 33tph it shows that with the right investment and skills the tube can transport people faster than ever. In the last 10 years we have not seen much in the way of investment and this is a sign of good things to come.

To your average commuter (and that's who we are appealing to, not enthusiasts) they now notice more space on the trains, more information and air conditioning on Met anyway. Id rather we have a system that is invested in for the future of the capital than some old, maintenance intensive, slow and hot trains running about the system just because a few people claim they look nice.

It's nice they preserve the old stuff. But it isn't justified running them in a large amount in passenger service in a 21st century London.

Peter Mugridge · 12 Feb 2013

tom1649 said:
Where will I get my DC motor fix from then? :cry:

Try Paris; the MS61 Stock on RER Line A are the most musical I have ever heard, but don't dawdle - they're on the way out over the next 2 years. they are 3 car units which work in triples; best place to ride them is the 3rd carriage from the back, windows open, in the long tunnel section between La Defense and Etoile.

Also on Paris, the Z6400 units working off St Lazare towards La Defense are very "growly grindy" sounding and quite loud with it as well.

Fred26 · 12 Feb 2013

Does anyone know why the new Victoria Line stock wasn't made with walk-through carriages like the new sub-surface trains?

317666 · 12 Feb 2013

I agree with the earlier post, the sound of DC motors will be sorely missed when they do eventually go!

Dstock7080 · 12 Feb 2013

Fred26 said:
Does anyone know why the new Victoria Line stock wasn't made with walk-through carriages like the new sub-surface trains?

The necessary equipment needed for strengthening at ceiling level would've rendered the aperture too low to walk-through.

Aictos · 12 Feb 2013

I like the S stock, they're more spacious, air conditioned, have much better customer information systems, are more Eco friendly via their regenerative brakes and simply is a good investment.

I loved the A Stock but the S Stock is proof of much needed investment

Mojo · 12 Feb 2013

And don't forget how much ventilation the windows in the communicating doors add to the train.

jon0844 · 12 Feb 2013

A stock had a fairly good run. Let's see if the S Stock last as long!

Fred26 · 12 Feb 2013

Dstock7080 said:
The necessary equipment needed for strengthening at ceiling level would've rendered the aperture too low to walk-through.

Oh I see. Thanks.

Nym · 12 Feb 2013

Mojo said:
And don't forget how much ventilation the windows in the communicating doors add to the train.

Also very handy for slamming when you're walking through prepping the train for service.

But yes, ventilation is a big thing, especially on the victoria line with all it's recently upgraded forced ventilation as part of the VLU Project.

tsr · 12 Feb 2013

Dstock7080 said:
The necessary equipment needed for strengthening at ceiling level would've rendered the aperture too low to walk-through.

I was always told it was due to the width of the proposed aperture not being able to accommodate more than one (fairly slim) person - taking into account the materials and building technologies for that stock.

HLE 13 said:
I like the S stock, they're more spacious, air conditioned, have much better customer information systems, are more Eco friendly via their regenerative brakes and simply is a good investment.

I loved the A Stock but the S Stock is proof of much needed investment

The point is that, as you will no doubt be aware, subsurface tunnels are better able to take a larger, air-conditioned train. It was relatively easy to ensure the new technologies would work adequately on the Metropolitan and similar lines.

jonmorris0844 said:
A stock had a fairly good run. Let's see if the S Stock last as long!

It won't, if you believe what I've heard from various LU staff (including at least one member of senior Met staff)!

317 forever · 17 Feb 2013

I like the 2009 and S stock but grew to like the 1967 and A stock, even though the Met and Vic lines were my least fave lines (along with the Central) in my youth.

I am not very keen on the C stock and look forward to their withdrawal, potentially in bulk later this year.

I shall be sorry to see the D stock go. I like the 1972 Mk II and 1973 stock so am pleased new trains for the Bakerloo and Piccadilly Lines have been postponed until early next decade.

jon0844 · 17 Feb 2013

tsr said:
[S Stock lasting as long as A Stock] It won't, if you believe what I've heard from various LU staff (including at least one member of senior Met staff)!

I have no doubt this will prove to be true. Of course, look at any bit of technology these days - nothing is built to last and we're used to throwing stuff away and buying something new.

317666 · 18 Feb 2013

Regarding how long S Stock will last, I've heard that apparently the chassis is designed to last a mere 25 years...

christopher · 18 Feb 2013

Why don't people like the C stock?

I don't see anything wrong with it, It does the job and the only thing I can think of what's wrong is the tattyness of them thanks to wear+tear as well as the graffiti they seem to pick up!

jon0844 · 18 Feb 2013

Nothing wrong with C Stock, but the ventilation (and being out in the sun a lot of the time) made me hate them with a passion on hot days.

To go from mobile greenhouses to air conditioned trains will be quite a shock to some people!

New London Underground trains: Your thoughts

Established Member

RailUK Forums

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Veteran Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Member

Veteran Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Forum Staff

Veteran Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Member

Veteran Member