Stunned at how full these things get on the Leeds to Huddersfield section, seriously, what possessed FTPE to run three car units on such a busy route and what are the design team on with seats that could so easily match up with the windows, but don't - was envious of the new FTPE fleet, I'm not so sure now and I'm thinking, would I really want something like that on my Meadowhall to Leeds daily trip.
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First time on Class 185
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NSE
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If FTPE had the resources I'm sure they would run more than 3 cars. But, after they're were given the Manchester-Scotland Routes but not any extra stock, things were spread a little thinly. When the 350's arrive for that stretch, then the current stock gets cascaded. I imagine then services will double.
NSE
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You get them on Southern trains to Brighton/Littlehampton etc. I'd say these were just as commutery. I liked the service I got in First Class, was more friendly than the XC train I got off minutes before, and I don't drink tea or coffee, so the guy let me have extra orange juice. Little things I know :P
ash39
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Basically they are lovely when they are empty, and awful when they are full. Very fast as well!
gimmea50anyday
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And impressive growl when at full power pulling out of darlo, York or thru standedge tunnel...
There was a clause in their contract to extend all the vehicles to four car but the DfT never gave them permission to exercise it. This is coupled with them getting slightly fewer units than they were expecting and then having to run the Manchester - Scotland services with no extra rolling stock. The 170s that I imagine you're familiar with on Manchester - Cleethorpes services were supposed to be confined to Manchester - Hull services only (and often to run doubled up). But that proved impossible with the extra diagrams that their fleet was covering.
Unless I've missed something there are about two or three seats per carriage that don't line up and only one of those is actually next to a pillar. You'll notice that the windows on the outside of a 185 are not symmetrical there are several that are odd sizes. This is because Siemens did their best to ensure that the windows and seats lined up
Commuter style perhaps (though with 2+2 in standard arranged around a lot of tables they aren't all that commuter like). But not commuter in their journey length. Newcastle to Manchester two and three quarter hours or Manchester to Edinburgh three hours and twenty minutes.
ash39
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I'm more a fan of the turbo whistle you get at full whack from inside the vehicle. Would be a bit wearing on a 3 hour journey though. They are quite loud.
Surprised to hear comments about the windows, they are really big height wise and make the interior feel very light. I've never found a seat that doesn't allign with one.
The only flipside to the interior is the commuter style doors, but you can see the benefit of this with the dwell times. Can get around 30 people out of a carriage and another 30 on in less than a minute.
As my local, and probably favourite stock, I feel somewhat compelled to defend them as reasonable units, and as gimmea50anyday says, they make a pretty good noise 
The length is a problem, as is the severe lack of luggage space (as I recently realised when travelling with family to Manchester Airport, 3 cases, and then some, in tow)
The length is a problem, as is the severe lack of luggage space (as I recently realised when travelling with family to Manchester Airport, 3 cases, and then some, in tow)
ash39
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Agreed it is daft that a train goes to Manchester Airport every day only has a couple of small racks per vehicle for suitcases.
Having said that, if there were more luggage racks you might say a train that connects the 4 biggest cities in the north at peak times needs more seating for commuters.
I guess the vast geographical area they cover means you couldn't please everyone, but an extra 2 cars per unit would certainly do the job!
Having said that, if there were more luggage racks you might say a train that connects the 4 biggest cities in the north at peak times needs more seating for commuters.
I guess the vast geographical area they cover means you couldn't please everyone, but an extra 2 cars per unit would certainly do the job!
Must have been an unlucky choice of available seat... Perhaps why it was available
I know how you feel. I travel/commute on the 'Transpennine North West' corridor (Blackpool North, Lake District, Scotland services) during the weekday and you'll be lucky to get any (standing) room/space on the train let alone a seat. It's that busy.
I agree, they are great when they're less busy and feel quite comfortable to travel on.
I agree, they are great when they're less busy and feel quite comfortable to travel on.
Waverley125
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when TPE gets wired they really need replacing with a series of 344s-like the 444s down south, but with Pantographs.
Remove the Stalybridge, Dewsbury and Garforth stops and concentrate on making TPE a proper express service between Newcastle, York, Leeds, Manchester & Liverpool. 3 standard trailers with extra luggage space, a standard buffet and a first class coach, with the potential for dual-working and 10 coach trains.
Remove the Stalybridge, Dewsbury and Garforth stops and concentrate on making TPE a proper express service between Newcastle, York, Leeds, Manchester & Liverpool. 3 standard trailers with extra luggage space, a standard buffet and a first class coach, with the potential for dual-working and 10 coach trains.
In my experience they are packed from Leeds to Dewsbury; full + standing to Huddersfield; empty seats to Manchester.
So do you cart fresh air across the Pennines so people travelling from Leeds to Dewsbury/Huddersfield can sit?
If Northern offered a better quality local service then no, the three car unit would be ample, but they don't, so yes, fresh air needs to be carted across the Pennines
YorkshireBear
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I believe most can take 8 huddersfield might struggle. TPE will be far better after electrification. Plus an exxtra service in 2014.
The trolley service tickled me too... Just didn't seem appropriate on a commuter style train
Believe it or not back in the days of WAGN what is now the FCC GN route used to have a trolley service!
185
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Interesting Quote....
Q&A session, 2nd floor North Block, Piccadilly Station, Dec 2003.
Q -
"Will 3 cars be enough? The other unsuccessful bidder was offering four cars"
Vernon Barker, TPE MD
"No these will be more than enough for the route"
Quite how he bidded for 3cars, and then blamed the DfT for the mess is beyond me.
He bidded on the basis of three car units with an option for an extension to four. Once it was clear that four car units were needed the DfT didn't give permission for that extension clause to be actioned.
ash39
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What's the alternative when the luggage racks are full? Miss the train and your connecting flight? :roll:
this was coming from the Airport ..
How about putting them on the floor or on overhead racks (if they fit)? What a total overreaction.
YorkshireBear
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thats fine, pay for an extra ticket then.
ash39
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Haha are you people for real? Buy an extra ticket for your luggage? By that logic, should you get a refund if you can't get a seat?
I'm not saying putting suitcases on seats routinely should be done thing but certainly if no other provision was available I would. Likewise if i was travelling without luggage and someone else was forced to put their items on a seat, I'd rather stand than sit and not be able to escape in an emergency because the gangways are piled with baggage!
I'm not saying putting suitcases on seats routinely should be done thing but certainly if no other provision was available I would. Likewise if i was travelling without luggage and someone else was forced to put their items on a seat, I'd rather stand than sit and not be able to escape in an emergency because the gangways are piled with baggage!
Each time I have been on a 185, the train has been that packed the trolley couldn't make it through. I tend to use Virgin between Edinburgh and Preston or Wigan as they are usually quieter.
EDIT: Sorry, I once got a morning Edinburgh-Manchester Airport train as far as Preston, where it was quiet enough for the trolley to make it through.
EDIT: Sorry, I once got a morning Edinburgh-Manchester Airport train as far as Preston, where it was quiet enough for the trolley to make it through.
gimmea50anyday
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It would help if punters stowed their luggage appropriately. A small hand luggage sized case does not go on the floor of the rack in the space for large suitcases, people with large cases see one, think its full and abandon their cases in the doorways. neither should soft holdalls such as those carried by military personell on leave be stacked up in doorways or left in the middle of gangways for people to trip over. I agree the luggage rack situation is not ideal, but if people stowed their cases properly in the first place then the problem becomes much more manageable.
YorkshireBear
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Just part of my general annoyance at people who think its alright to put bags on seats when they can easily fit elsewhere. My comment had no relation to size. If they are too big then so be it.
ash39
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Agreed, good points
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