Is TPE 1st Class worth paying for?

trainophile · 15 Mar 2013

Looking at some Advances in May (Liverpool Lime Street to York) and note that 1st class is about double the price of standard class. Wondering what the benefits are.

Apologies if this has been asked before - wasn't sure what to search on.

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Tubeboy · 15 Mar 2013

Got in before me! Was wondering the same thing. I read somewhere on here recently that 1st is declassified fairly often on the busier sections. Was thinking of doing a run from Scarborough-Liverpool so same line as OP.

trainophile · 15 Mar 2013

That's interesting about potential for de-classification. Wonder if you can get a refund of the difference if that happens.

Searle · 15 Mar 2013

I'd say getting first class for TPE in peak times is worth it, just for the seat, otherwise I wouldn't be bothered, that's just my perspective. The seats in FC are nice and comfy (and they recline slightly!

)

Also it's worth noting that if you're travelling on a weekend, and the price difference is more than £6, then it would be cheaper to upgrade on the day. More details here under First Class and Weekend First.

And yes, if First Class is declassified and you have a first class ticket, you will get refunded some money, not sure how much it equates to though.

tankmc · 15 Mar 2013

In one word, no.

Manchester77 · 15 Mar 2013

trainophile said:
Looking at some Advances in May (Liverpool Lime Street to York) and note that 1st class is about double the price of standard class. Wondering what the benefits are.

Apologies if this has been asked before - wasn't sure what to search on.

In the summer I travelled from Manchester Piccadilly to Blackpool North. We booked through the trainline about 4 days in advance and first class was cheaper than standard!!
First Class, it's quieter, you get a free tea/coffee and a biscuit. It's nice but if its double the price of standard don't bother. What I'd say is go standard but book seat reservations
I've done Manchester Piccadilly to York and its been packed both there and back, defiantly get seat reservations people do move

rebmcr · 15 Mar 2013

Agree that it's only good during very busy times. The Standard accommodation is fairly good, and the 1st accommodation is fairly basic — meaning they meet in the middle and there's pretty much nothing other than 2+2 / 2+1 layout to differentiate them.

Crossover · 15 Mar 2013

I believe if declassified, the compensation is the difference between 1st and Standard equivalent fares.

I went 1st class to Newcastle the other day, as I got the tickets under the 25% off offer. At peak times, I would say 1st will give you a better chance of a seat (and more space too) than standard, but at quieter times, unless the fares are similar, it probably isn't worth it.

Off the Scottish routes, catering is only provided on the core between Manchester and York and only until 7pm. Thus, on my recent journey to Newcastle, I managed to get a drink and cake before the trolley bailed at York, on the way back (18:52 off Newcastle) there was no catering, but there were only 2/3 of us in the entire 1st class section, so it was mostly very quiet and relaxing.

You say 1st is double of standard...given they are AP's, it depends on what standard price is, as fares may be currently very reasonable...depends what you double as to whether it is expensive or not :P

trainophile · 15 Mar 2013

Thanks folks. Think you've just saved me over £30. I can buy my own tea or coffee with that!

Edit: For two of us with senior railcards, £15.80 each way standard class, £33 1st class.

Crossover · 15 Mar 2013

Manchester77 said:
I've done Manchester Piccadilly to York and its been packed both there and back, defiantly get seat reservations people do move

There seems to be a lot of people being rebelious at the moment :lol:

Flying Snail · 15 Mar 2013

rebmcr said:
Agree that it's only good during very busy times. The Standard accommodation is fairly good, and the 1st accommodation is fairly basic — meaning they meet in the middle and there's pretty much nothing other than 2+2 / 2+1 layout to differentiate them.

The seats are much better than the ironing board yokes in standard and there is more legroom, particularly in the airline seats.

The biggest plus is that you are likely to get some privacy and quiet.

A number of people on this forum are fixated on first class freebies, if they can't get away without consuming half their bodyweight in food and drink they think 1st class is no good. If you are one of them then don't bother with TPE 1st, if you just want to spend your trip in comfort then it is worth considering depending on price.

Xenophon PCDGS · 15 Mar 2013

For the last five years, my wife (now aged 72 years of age) has travelled from Manchester Airport to Durham to chair committee meetings, every two months. She has always used first class (with its complimentary coffee and cake) to ensure that she arrives there in a relaxed frame of mind.

She made her final journey to chair a committee meeting in February of this year, having completed her term of office. She was indeed thankful to hear that all her visits were completed before First TPE withdrew the direct Manchester Airport to Newcastle service that calls at Durham railway station.

gimmea50anyday · 15 Mar 2013

I NEVER declassify first class. Regardless of how busy the train is. I will however prioritise the first class seats firstly to those with first class tickets, then to needy and vulnerable passengers such as elderly, disabled, pregnant or nursing mothers etc. far too many arguments I have had with West Yorkshire metro pass holders who think they have the right to first class seats then complain about me when I uphold nrcoc and railway byelaws. The majority of TPE guards are now asked to actively manage first class in this way, although if the train is so busy it is not possible to leave the cab and irst lass it at the opposite nd there's not a lot we can really do about it unfortunately.

To answer the OP's question booking in advance as possible and there are mega cheap first class tickets that don't cost much more than standard advances. be careful however that you don't fall into the advance trap and purchase two singles before confirming the cost of the return ticket, as often returns valid any permitted are cheaper than two advance singles making up a very restricted return journey. Tickets can be upgraded on board and cost as little as £6 weekend first, or £10 if travelling into Scotland regardless of distance. Ideally tho get a seat reservation. Pop into any ticket office and any ticket, even PRIVS and seasons can be booked seats and its usually free (AFAIK)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Paul Sidorczuk said:
She made her final journey to chair a committee meeting in February of this year, having completed her term of office. She was indeed thankful to hear that all her visits were completed before First TPE withdrew the direct Manchester Airport to Newcastle service that calls at Durham railway station.

All of our MIA trains stop at Durham. The only oddity is the one that leaves NCL at 06.11 which is a Liverpool service. Granted it is currently different on a Sunday but that is because TPE services are currently being diverted via Wakefield kirkgate which upsets the half hourly pattern but that is only temporary. If that is the case change at Huddersfield. Not Leeds, not York not Manchester. The connection is always the next train and on the same platform.its the same for Scarborough services wanting to go to the airport or Newcastle line to Liverpool. Huddersfield, same platform, next train. Always. No lifts no escalators, no hassle and no platform alterations!!!!

Xenophon PCDGS · 15 Mar 2013

gimmea50anyday said:
All of our MIA trains stop at Durham. The only oddity is the one that leaves NCL at 06.11 which is a Liverpool service.

I was referring to the stated proposal to withdraw the Manchester Airport to Newcastle service and to run that service from Liverpool Lime Street in the not too distant future, according to what has been put in recent proposals.

My wife wants to put it on record that she was always treated extremely well by all the First TPE train staff that she has travelled with and says it was a pleasure to have travelled with First TPE. Incidentally, she has never found any problem with the comfort of the seats in First Class at any time, despite the time taken in travelling from Manchester Airport to Durham...and vice versa.

gimmea50anyday · 15 Mar 2013

There have been many discussions and proposals but nothing concrete has been posted to us guys in Newcastle. The only bit we do know is Liverpool crews are route learning all the way to Newcastle, but they haven't started yet. That of course does add some weight to the changes.

Essexman · 15 Mar 2013

1st Advance is often only a few pounds more and worth it to get a seat on busy trains. You usually get a free drink and little snack too.

I've booked Manchester - Grange-over-Sands & return this week - 1st class for extra £4 each way. - I am actually travelling from London but am not in a hurry and via Manchester is cheaper than direct Virgin train London - Preston.

Starmill · 16 Mar 2013

tankmc said:
In one word, no.

This...

Another thing to consider with 185 1ST - people will probably walk through to use the loo! Not something you get with Pendos. That said, I do know a few people who will walk to toilets in first on them cos they're cleaner!

EDIT: I should add... this is because they are less used, not anything to do with the clientele in Standard lol.

fireftrm · 17 Mar 2013

A seat guaranteed, quite comfortable and in a quiet compartment. The one cuppa you might get (depends on route) and the snack - I even got a sandwich on a West coast trip from Manchester once. Yes people do walk through to the toilet and this can irritate, as does the opening of the doors by standing passengers leaning on them when packed.
As to people walking through pendolinos or east coast stick, to use toilets in first class, I am glad to say that they do get caught and sent packing, or charged the first class fare, rightly so.

jaigee · 17 Mar 2013

rebmcr said:
....... and the 1st accommodation is fairly basic meaning they meet in the middle and there's pretty much nothing other than 2+2 / 2+1 layout to differentiate them.

Compared to London Midland, that's luxury!

RochdalePioneers · 17 Mar 2013

I walked through first class on a 350/1 on Friday. Looked exactly the same as Standard!

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knight2004 · 17 Mar 2013

The thing with First Class is that it should be more expensive but people expect something for that now- London Midland is really annoying me at the moment- i pay the extra for a a seat plug socket and comfort- but the guards are not checking tickets in First, maybe because they are too busy, but this means anyone is sitting in there- i did write a customer comment to them but heard nothing back so I now try and avoid using that service where possible- if anything First should be seat, comfort, ticket checked, plug socket and maybe a drink for the medium long distance operators.

61653 HTAFC · 17 Mar 2013

The one time I've used 1st on a 185 (from Liverpool to Huddersfield on a Sunday) 1st was declassified after Oxford Road due to severe overcrowding (a preceding service had been cancelled at Piccadilly) before arrival at Picc, the conductor came through and offered forms to claim back the difference to 1st-class passengers. However, I was on an advance and had booked the cheapest available fare, which just happened to be 1st. I may have been able to claim the difference between my ticket and the equivalent standard fare, though this would only have been a couple of quid anyway and at least I had a seat.

furryfeet · 17 Mar 2013

tankmc said:
In one word, no.

I agree, unless one can get a cheap 1st advance....

The disappointing thing about the TPE 1st class walk-on fares is that there are no tickets available apart from the open return. Hence one is paying nearly double, or more than double the 2nd class price. With the current severe overcrowding on the Diggle route especially, one would have though that TPE would have a more enlightened policy to encourage people like the OP to pay a little extra and go 1st class instead of 2nd, thereby using up unfilled seats.

e.g. manchester piccadilly to York:-
1st Open Rtn 66.40
2nd Open Rtn 36.20
2nd Open Day Rtn 33.90
2nd Off-Peak Rtn (SVR) 28.30

and to Leeds:-

1st Open Rtn 50.00
2nd Open Rtn 26.80
2nd Off-Peak Rtn (SVR) 20.30
2nd Cheap Day Rtn 18.20

so my stance is that, yes 1st class is more comfortable, but expensive if you want any flexibility, unless "weekend first" is an option.

jaigee · 17 Mar 2013

knight2004 said:
The thing with First Class is that it should be more expensive but people expect something for that now- London Midland is really annoying me at the moment- i pay the extra for a a seat plug socket and comfort- but the guards are not checking tickets in First, maybe because they are too busy, but this means anyone is sitting in there- i did write a customer comment to them but heard nothing back so I now try and avoid using that service where possible- if anything First should be seat, comfort, ticket checked, plug socket and maybe a drink for the medium long distance operators.

I travel weekly off-peak on the northbound Nuneaton to Crewe services and a ticket check in First is virtually non-existent. I assume in Standard it is just the same as no ticket inspector ever passes through.

Being busy is not a reason as the trains are now sparsley populated north of Nuneaton due to the loss of all convenient connections since the London speed-up.

Not very good really considering all stations on the route have no barriers/checks either.

stuartmoss · 17 Mar 2013

I always travel 1st Class on TPE if travelling at peak times. The trains get absolutely packed - ridiculously on a morning. I tend to reserve a seat in 1st on these occasions.

Lampshade · 17 Mar 2013

With TPE going first class usually = getting a seat.

NathanPrior · 17 Mar 2013

I sat in 1st Class from Manchester Picc to Horwich Parkway back in December, I got nothing at all, mind you, it was declassified and had to explain to others what that actually meant before they took a seat.

johnnychips · 17 Mar 2013

Things may be different on TPE South (Cleethorpes [though now Donny because of the landslip] to Man Airport). I always try to travel First Class; it has never been declassified; staff have always checked tickets and know about being able to use advance tickets if the plane is late, and on two occasions chucked out drunk standard class passengers trying to use First. Maybe I've been lucky.

Boothby97 · 18 Mar 2013

And it's even worse on the Cleethorpes-Scunthorpe services at the moment. 3 car 185, with standard and first class not filling very well
Thanks, Sam

Essexman · 27 Mar 2013

I cuaght the 9.58 from Grange over Sands to Manchester today. Well worth the £4 extra for 1st class. Train was full and standing by Carnforth and packed after Preston. Just four of us in 1st class. Complimentary drink and snack after Preston - although I do wonder why TPE bother with trolley just between Preston and Manchester.

Is TPE 1st Class worth paying for?

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