Northern line TBTC/ATO

Tubefan2013 · 16 Jan 2013

A while ago I seem to recall someone saying that the Northern line would be TBTC/ATO by January 2013 between Highbarnet and West finchely? It seems like its still manually driven along there. Can anyone shed some light on this?
Thanks

RailUK Forums

Dstock7080 · 16 Jan 2013

Tubefan2013 said:
A while ago I seem to recall someone saying that the Northern line would be TBTC/ATO by January 2013 between Highbarnet and West finchely? It seems like its still manually driven along there. Can anyone shed some light on this?
Thanks

Trial running w/e 9/10 February.

Tubefan2013 · 17 Jan 2013

That's great news! Is it a trial run in ATO or PM mode?

Dstock7080 · 18 Jan 2013

Tubefan2013 said:
That's great news! Is it a trial run in ATO or PM mode?

ATO, testing trains out-of-service during weekend closure.

Tubefan2013 · 18 Jan 2013

I am pleased there is some progress. It has been silent lately about the upgrade on forum.
Which section is going ATO first then? Is it still High Barnet to West Finchely? I seem to recall Highgate to High Barnet.

Dstock7080 · 18 Jan 2013

An update:

"On the weekend of 9/10 February 2013 and from the 17 February 2013 onwards the Northern line between High Barnet and West Finchley in both directions will be operating under the Transmission Based Train Control (TBTC) system with Automatic Train Operation (ATO) capability."

Manchester77 · 30 Jan 2013

From the latest commissioners report:-

Northern Line Upgrade
On 17/18 November 2012 six trains operated successfully between High Barnet and West Finchley using the new signalling system Trains Based Transmission Control (TBTC). All trains have now completed testing to operate under TBTC signalling. Good progress continues to be made in further TBTC installation on the line. Lessons learned from the upgrade of the Jubilee line mean that a new approach is being taken on the Northern line which is already resulting in significantly fewer weekend and early evening closures and much less customer disruption.

Tubefan2013 · 31 Jan 2013

I am pleased the upgrade is going smoothy, unlike the Jubilee line upgrade!

Class377/5 · 5 Feb 2013

Tubefan2013 said:
I am pleased the upgrade is going smoothy, unlike the Jubilee line upgrade!

As someone who lived on the Jubilee during the 'upgrade' works then ended up on Northern Line when its upgraded started I'm rather glad of this!

trentside · 5 Feb 2013

It would appear lessons have been learned.

They've also picked a good test bed as non-communicating trains can be terminated at Finchley Central or diverted to Mill Hill East to avoid blocking the line through to High Barnet. I've heard a target of early 2014 for the whole line to be TBTC, can anyone confirm?

Dstock7080 · 5 Feb 2013

trentside said:
I've heard a target of early 2014 for the whole line to be TBTC, can anyone confirm?

Late 2014 for completion.
Migration areas:
West Finchley/Mill Hill East-Highgate Feb 2014
Highgate/Belsize Pk-Angel/Euston May 2014
Angel/Euston-Oval July 2014
Oval-Morden Sept 2014
Belsize Pk-Edgware Nov 2014

"the aim is to bring these target dates forward if installation and testing going well'.

Tubefan2013 · 10 Feb 2013

Does anyone know how well this weekends TBTC testing went?

Class377/5 · 11 Feb 2013

Tubefan2013 said:
Does anyone know how well this weekends TBTC testing went?

Well every time I've passed Finchley Central this weekend there's been a train running around so I'd say well.

Tubefan2013 · 11 Feb 2013

That's good then! How far is it off from passenger service?

Class377/5 · 12 Feb 2013

Tubefan2013 said:
That's good then! How far is it off from passenger service?

Haven't a clue as I use Northern Line as a passenger.

Dstock7080 · 12 Feb 2013

Tubefan2013 said:
That's good then! How far is it off from passenger service?

See my reply#6; from 17 February.

Morden Via CHX · 21 Feb 2013

First passenger ATO services were introduced between West Finchley and High Barnet last Sunday. Appeared to go very well indeed, although the approach to Platform 1 High Barnet is now 40mph from 15mph. Could get interesting on a day with low adhesion.

n4dave · 20 Mar 2013

NMA1 ( Northern line Migration Area 1 ) between West Finchley and High Barnet has been a resounding success with NO TBTC failures since the start Feb 17th 2013 which is brilliant , we have learnt from the Jubilee line with the latest software.
Large number of tests have been taking place for the next area to go to ATO which is Highgate northbound towards Mill Hill and they hope NMA2 will go live in June this year !

317666 · 20 Mar 2013

Brilliant that there were no failures! Look forward to the upgrade being complete as if you ask me, the Northern is the line most in need of a higher service frequency.

bronzeonion · 20 Mar 2013

Only problem I have with the upgrade is it's another line becoming ATO, if it was TBTC but driven in Protected Manual I wouldn't mind.

Class377/5 · 20 Mar 2013

Does anyone know why the units sound so difference once on ATO?

bronzeonion · 20 Mar 2013

Class377/5 said:
Does anyone know why the units sound so difference once on ATO?

They don't when I have been on them in TBTC mode. They might a little bit different as the acceleration has been uncapped from 60% to 100%

Class377/5 · 21 Mar 2013

bronzeonion said:
They don't when I have been on them in TBTC mode. They might a little bit different as the acceleration has been uncapped from 60% to 100%

Been on them a few times, apart from shifting a lot quicker, they sound more like they are grinding gears than normal, much louder. Guessed it was to do with uncapping them.

WinterChief · 21 Mar 2013

bronzeonion said:
Only problem I have with the upgrade is it's another line becoming ATO, if it was TBTC but driven in Protected Manual I wouldn't mind.

Why, is this a problem? ATO delivers are far more efficient railway than in protected manual.

n4dave · 23 Mar 2013

bronzeonion said:
Only problem I have with the upgrade is it's another line becoming ATO, if it was TBTC but driven in Protected Manual I wouldn't mind.

At the moment drivers can choose to drive in ATO or PM mode between West Finchley and High Barnet but especially when the whole of the Northern line is upgraded I guess they will want trains driven in ATO only as driving in PM will probably lose some time.
They want more trains on the system and a faster service so the only way to do this is in ATO all computer driven !

In the TBTC area the train switches over from Tripcock mode to ATO and this allows the trains motors to fully function at 100% and allows the high acceleration and a faster journey.

Dstock7080 · 24 Jun 2013

TBTC/ATO successfully added to services north of Highgate today.

n4dave · 25 Jun 2013

Dstock7080 said:
TBTC/ATO successfully added to services north of Highgate today.

Yes it did and although it's early days ... so far so good !

Class377/5 · 26 Jun 2013

It will be interesting to see of the see if crawl under the North Circular northbound still occurs as recently they've been really slow going through it even with large gaps between trains.

That said I think it went wrong earlier with a train in the Mill Hill platform at Finchley Central, one directly behind it (as in less than 10m) and a third train sat another few meters behind that.

Manchester77 · 26 Jun 2013

Does anyone now when NMA3s being converted?

Peter Mugridge · 27 Jun 2013

Class377/5 said:
That said I think it went wrong earlier with a train in the Mill Hill platform at Finchley Central, one directly behind it (as in less than 10m) and a third train sat another few meters behind that.

It seemed to be playing up all day; there were some quite long service gaps ( one of them up to 15 minutes! ) in the afternoon followed by a bunch of trains at one minute intervals - the shuttle was unaffected at that time though.

There were also instances at more than one station of trains pulling away and then stopping again a few feet along.

Northern line TBTC/ATO

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