pinguini
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and of course their ability to appropriately clean it up.
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and of course their ability to appropriately clean it up.
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Zoidberg
Established Member
XC does have control over what measures it puts in place to deal with the need for emergency cleaning. Perhaps that service had on-board staff to deal with things like this and they had not yet had the chance to get to it. But if it chooses not to have on-board cleaning staff, then it leaves itself open to the risk of presenting a bad image to the travelling public.
Zoidberg
Established Member
I'm not sure what you mean. I don't know whether or not there is on-board cleaning staff. My point is that if there is not, then the risk is bad PR when "spills" cannot be dealt with while running.
hairyhandedfool
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If the train was as rammed as Pinguini suggests, could the cleaning staff actually get to it? Did anyone bother to report it to staff on the train? and if they did, do the onboard staff have the necessary equipment to clean it up?
pinguini
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Rammed is not a word I used to describe the train - I only mentioned the lack of any available seats. And yes - it appeared the on board staff managed to put some napkins over the top it of it quite well.
Zoidberg
Established Member
So, the staff on board did what that which they felt able to do. The, apparently, minimal attempt to improve conditions for passengers does not conjure up a good image.
I may be wrong but when it comes to vomit and other 'human mess' cleaners are often not allowed to clean it without specialist equipment and training for obvious reason. I believe this is the case in hospitals to. Therefore the coach would usually be sealed off until it can be dealt with.
When people complain about mess on trains I have to say I have little sympathy. The train companies do clean trains when possible but they arnt the ones making the mess. I see people posting photos on the FCC twitter feed complaining about the litter/spilt coffee/food waste etc and often think that the train probably didn't leave Brighton or Bedford like that. The mess normally happens en route after cleaners have passed through and to be fair all FCC trains are 'littered' with bins in vestibules, between seats etc. so it's not like they don't provide places for rubbish.
Sorry but if people can't be bothered to put their litter in the bin and just leave it on the seats then any offended passengers should be taking it up with them, not the train company who can't be expected to employ enough cleaners to pretty much follow each passenger round picking up all their litter.
I am often amazed when changing ends in sidings at the end of the rush hours how messy trains get left and these arnt even late night drunk trains, they are peak hour commuter services. Some of them are absolutely disgusting. Empty bins (ie no one has bothered to use the bins) and seats/floor covered in newspapers, coffee cups, spilt coffee/tea all over seats (how does this happen?! If I have a drink on the train I drink it, don't throw it everywhere,), banana skins/apple cores/orange peel (I find food waste left around really bad), half eastern tale away food (noodles, burgers, chips etc)
Zoidberg
Established Member
You are probably right - I hope that you are - cleaning staff should be protected from the risks associated with human 'waste'.
But I do feel that, particularly on long distance trains, the necessary people, with appropriate training and equipment, should be on board and able to deal with a 'mess' rather than have paying passengers cope with the inconvenience of a coach being taken out of service. If they are not, a negative customer experience is the result. And that is what started this mini-thread.
~I can confirm he is correct, human waste can only be touched by specially trained staff, and also using clinical waste equipment (special coloured bags, must be disposed in correct manner, cant go in normal waste)
Zoidberg, I'm sure if you club together with a few others, you can make the appropriate donation to the railway companies in order to bring down our nation's unemployment figures by a few hundred and provide a cleaning service that could cover for the off-chance that somebody with no self control will empty the contents of their stomach onto our nice clean carpet!
Zoidberg
Established Member
Thanks for the offer, but I'll decline.
Does it seem unreasonable that, particularly on a long haul service, given that cleaning emergencies will occur, there should be someone on board who's role it is to deal with such an emergency cleaning?
I thought you might
Given that a cleaning emergency happens on probably 1/1000 trains we operate, then yes! There are cleaners available at certain points around our network who can deal with it, as and when the train reaches one of those points.
Zoidberg
Established Member
I thought you might
Given that a cleaning emergency happens on probably 1/1000 trains we operate, then yes! There are cleaners available at certain points around our network who can deal with it, as and when the train reaches one of those points.
Ah, well. It seems that customer service is an alien concept in some quarters. But the Great British Public will manage, somehow.
But Zoidberg says the team should be on every train "just in case", really cost effective that would be! 
The trouble with having teams at strategic points of the network is not only the costs involved but also the practicalities of the team getting to the mess and cleaning it up on a moving train without sloshing the mess everywhere, again totally impractical unless the train is stationary so therefore the teams need to be at the terminus stations, not much point them being at Birmingham is it.
The trouble with having teams at strategic points of the network is not only the costs involved but also the practicalities of the team getting to the mess and cleaning it up on a moving train without sloshing the mess everywhere, again totally impractical unless the train is stationary so therefore the teams need to be at the terminus stations, not much point them being at Birmingham is it.
Just while we're on the topic
FYI:
ScotRail has a cleaning team between Partick and Hyndland on the North Clyde/Argyle routes.
For those who are unfamiliar with the area - Partick and Hyndland are 2 stops on the busy Glasgow suburban routes which are 3 minutes apart, and both have 14tph weekday daytime.
The cleaners hop on at Partick, run through the train and grab rubbish and any obvioius problems, and then hop off at Hyndland and do the opposite returning.
FYI:
ScotRail has a cleaning team between Partick and Hyndland on the North Clyde/Argyle routes.
For those who are unfamiliar with the area - Partick and Hyndland are 2 stops on the busy Glasgow suburban routes which are 3 minutes apart, and both have 14tph weekday daytime.
The cleaners hop on at Partick, run through the train and grab rubbish and any obvioius problems, and then hop off at Hyndland and do the opposite returning.
SJN
Member
I really dont think it's a case of 'bad customer service'. If there is only a conductor and driver on the train, then obviously the driver cannot stop the train to clean it up. The conductor is there to open and close the doors and make sure all customers are safe. That is their priority. If the stopping stations are close together, there wouldn't be time to clear it up and they probably wouldn't be allowed to anyway. Maybe the person who threw up or their companions should have the decency to clear up after themselves?
Zoidberg
Established Member
But Zoidberg says the team should be on every train "just in case", really cost effective that would be!
...
Not so sure I said quite that, but no matter. I don't think that it calls for a team.
Between 3 and 12 years ago I used to regularly travel on the Virgin service between Euston and Birmingham New Street. On the train there was invariably a member of staff, or, perhaps, a contractor, who used to go through the train clearing out the bins and generally tidying up the debris left on tables. Why could not such as he/she be appropriately trained and given the kit to be able to deal with "spills"?
Do they clean up piles of vomit?
They are more litter pickers than cleaners, FGW have some based at Plymouth and they work up to Exeter/Tiverton on an ex Penzance train and then work back to Plymouth, they do a good job as well but again its only general waste they deal with.
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Time and working conditions, I would think the train would need to be stationary while the "mess" is cleaned up.
Ah, well. It seems that customer service is an alien concept in some quarters. But the Great British Public will manage, somehow.
As I say, if someone makes a mess then take it up with them, not the rail company. It shouldn't be down to them to pay cleaners to follow passengers around incase they throw up, spill their drink, can't be bothered to use one of the many bins on a train etc.
And, as unpopular as this will be on here, customer service is very different on the railways. It's a public service, not a customer service industry. It's not like a hotel, restaraunt, shop etc, its a mass transportation system and it has no need to be an industry that rolls the red carpet out for its 'customers' (or passengers as they actually are). If you want that kind of thing then you need a taxi or private hire car. Trains transport the masses and if someone decides to vomit everywhere then that's them at fault, not the rail company who will of course try to get the mess cleaned up as soon as possible.
Rather than complain to the company I would recommend taking it up with the person who couldn't make it all the way inside the toilet to throw up. (Obviously if they were genuinely ill then that's unfortunate but I'd stake money on that fact that the majority of vomit on trains is alcohol related).
Zoidberg
Established Member
No need to stop, those Pedalos are quite stable, y'know.
What about the H&S rules on dealing with hazardous waste! :roll:
Zoidberg
Established Member
Oh? What have they to say on the subject?
I am not going to defend passengers as I am 100% with you, but I will say that it isn't immediately obvious where the bins are on many FCC trains.. well trains in general. I expect SOME people will genuinely not think there is a bin on the carriage, as they're quite well hidden and are often filled very quickly with just a few McDonald's drink mugs and/or a copy of Metro.
Of course, these people should take their rubbish with them but I suppose they figure there are no bins there either (and in many cases, there really aren't) so they leave the stuff on the train.
Even then, there are different ways to leave your rubbish on a train - such as neatly collected and put in a bag on a table, or spread all over the seats and walls - as seems to be done by people who are doing it to show off to their mates and are the ones who should have been terminated at birth!! One problem is that if you did leave an empty coffee mug on a table, the next person to get on the train might just shove it under the seat.
Obviously bins are not going to be a popular choice in replacement to any sort of luggage storage area, but I wonder if a TOC has ever though to experiment with a larger bin with much clearly signage - and, like a 365, placing them near the doors so (some) people could at least dump their rubbish when alighting.
I thought you might
Given that a cleaning emergency happens on probably 1/1000 trains we operate, then yes! There are cleaners available at certain points around our network who can deal with it, as and when the train reaches one of those points.
This is where Twitter can come in very handy. Drop a tweet to the TOC, stating what train you're on, the carriage etc and then let them do their job.
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Would you be happy cleaning someone else's vomit or worse up on a moving train no matter how steady you think it is? All you need is a kink in the track, sudden braking etc and you could end up coming into contact with it and that could lead to catching all sorts of nasty things.
As I say, take it up with whoever felt it reasonable to make the mess in the first place, not the train operator who is there to get you from a-b, not to cater for the inconsiderate people who feel perfectly happy treating a train like a rubbish tip, back alley or public toilet.
Zoidberg
Established Member
No, I'd not be happy having to come into contact with the results of a "clean". But you've not answered the question about what do the H&S regulations have to say on this matter in terms of dealing with the matter on a moving train.
Do they say "don't" or do they say something along the lines of take appropriate measures to ensure against contamination?
And you can't really be expecting a passenger to remonstrate with another passenger about having thrown up and suggesting that they should clean it up, or are you? That is just the "railway" abdicating its responsibility.
What would be the point? The miscreant is probably that rata##ed that they wouldn't understand anyway! Speaking of which, just as I was taking over a train this evening, a bloke staggered off the train, then went round in a big 180 before being caught by myself and a colleague as he was about to disappear down the gap. Sure enough, no sooner had we caught him and told him to sit down for 5 minutes, he was barfing! Lovely!
As puke is probably classed as hazardous waste quite a lot, but then you being versed in all things will know that already wont you!
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As you are the one complaining about it you do the search! :roll:
Human waste needs to go in yellow bags does it not? Certainly that's what you'll find in hospitals, your local surgery, supermarkets (baby changing) etc. Then there's other hazardous materials like needles etc, although I have never seen any of that on a train.
It certainly can't just go in the usual clear bags that generally go for recycling later on, or least I believe they do.
It certainly can't just go in the usual clear bags that generally go for recycling later on, or least I believe they do.
Zoidberg
Established Member
As puke is probably classed as hazardous waste quite a lot, but then you being versed in all things will know that already wont you!
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As you are the one complaining about it you do the search! :roll:
Oh, I do not delude myself, I most certainly am not versed in all things, as you put it.
And I infer from the second part of your post that you do not know the answer to that which you implied that you did.
I shall leave it there.
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