Use of Microwave on trains

michael769 · 14 Apr 2013

I don't agree. There are many reasons for a policy like this (staff not having time, ill founded fear of litigation, wanting folks to buy their stuff) but to blame it on Health and Safety just brings real health and safety into disrepute (which makes us all less safe).

It is exactly the thing that the Chief Executive of the Health and Safety Executive has been fighting to prevent for some time now.

At the end of the day staff using catering equipment must be properly trained in its safe use, and a person so trained must by definition be able to heat any type of food in it without causing injury to themselves and others. Either they are not (which is unsafe in itself) or they are (in which case the real reason for this policy is nothing to do with safety).

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island · 14 Apr 2013

The policy, where operated, is either because of a fear of litigation, an insurance requirement, or because someone told them to do it.

michael769 · 14 Apr 2013

I agree, but it is not a good reason to make us all less safe by bringing real Health and Safety into disrepute. East Coast should put safety before its corporate reputation and tell passengers the real reason for their rule.

It is nonsense like this that encourages staff to ignore the real Health and Safety rules and put themselves and others in danger.

LE Greys · 14 Apr 2013

cjmillsnun said:
Ahh the BR Microwave. That brings back memories of the Intercity cheeseburgers. Believe it or not I miss them. Not the best food in the world but reasonably cheap and would keep you going.

I miss the things too. Amtrak did something similar last time I was over, I lived off them for two days. Cheap and cheerful, usually sells well.

richw · 14 Apr 2013

deltic1989 said:
When I worked for a popular fast food chain. We were told that we could warm baby food in the microwave but, as the previous poster said, to be aware that it is more powerful than a home microwave so do it by feel rather than the instructions.
(by "feel" I mean putting a coffee stirer in an placing it on the back of your hand not sticking your finger in it. just to clarify)

When I worked for the same chain, this was a big no by our franchisee. Food Safety rules prevent it being permitted because you are having an item that is in the microwave, potential for contamination as it is a non approved product for the company to be heating. Also said microwaves were 1500W.
On a side note no parent I know would consider microwaving baby milk or food due to hot spots that form on microwaving.

Regarding the dietary requiremnts for OP, I expect the attendant would decline, due to potential for contamination of his special dietary food from other items they use microwave for, that may have an affect to his requirements.

michael769 · 14 Apr 2013

richw said:
Regarding the dietary requiremnts for OP, I expect the attendant would decline, due to potential for contamination of his special dietary food from other items they use microwave for, that may have an affect to his requirements.

We already know that the attendant did not decline, as reported by the OP earlier in the thread.

The issue of cross contaminaion is I agree a valid concern, but one that can be easily mitigated with appropriate containers and cleaning. Where a suitable container is not available it may be hard to justify staff time in cleaning, and that would be a good reason to decline. However this is a food hygene issue not a Health and Safety At Work issue, and if it were the reason for ECs announcement they should make that clear, it would be much easier to understand and accept.

pethadine82 · 14 Apr 2013

I actually saw the process, the food was in a plastic container with a lid.
The virgin CSA removed the lid and placed it loosely on top and placed in the microwave for a minute. Job done.

I will certainly be expecting to microwave more meals when we travel on East Coast.

Lrd · 14 Apr 2013

pethadine82 said:
I will certainly be expecting to microwave more meals when we travel on East Coast.

I wouldn't be expecting anything! The majority of catering staff will probably not touch it. You may get one or two exceptions (as you've experienced) but it is not common practice.

deltic1989 · 14 Apr 2013

richw said:
When I worked for the same chain, this was a big no by our franchisee. Food Safety rules prevent it being permitted because you are having an item that is in the microwave, potential for contamination as it is a non approved product for the company to be heating. Also said microwaves were 1500W.
On a side note no parent I know would consider microwaving baby milk or food due to hot spots that form on microwaving.

Regarding the dietary requiremnts for OP, I expect the attendant would decline, due to potential for contamination of his special dietary food from other items they use microwave for, that may have an affect to his requirements.

This may be where the difference in procedure came from the stores that I worked for in Lincoln are all operated by the company rather than a franchise. That said though it is a few years since I made a Big Mac (7 to be precise) and further investigation by asking friends that still work there has revealed that the practice has now stopped across the board.
It seems that there are different rules where ever you go even within the same chain, for example there are some Weatherspoons that will heat a bottle and some that won't its luck of the draw really.

for the OP if you and your friend are going on a train fitted with plug sockets then have you considered taking your own microwave? This may sound like I am taking the mickey but I have seen it done.
A couple of guys once got on with a microwave and heated up several rustlers burgers in it. Something to consider.

wintonian · 14 Apr 2013

deltic1989 said:
for the OP if you and your friend are going on a train fitted with plug sockets then have you considered taking your own microwave? This may sound like I am taking the mickey but I have seen it done.
A couple of guys once got on with a microwave and heated up several rustlers burgers in it. Something to consider.

This is why there are no longer any plug sockets on Caledonian sleepers.

As for Rustlers thats a good enough reason to bring back the aforementioned British Rail cheeseburger.

jon0844 · 14 Apr 2013

Carrying your own microwave just to nuke a burger in 70 seconds seems like a bit OTT!

To continue what I said earlier; it's unlikely you'll find anyone willing to microwave liquids or ready meals (jars/bags) for children. Nobody has said it's a breach of Health & Safety rules, but companies have taken a decision not to for fear of possible legal action if a parent is stupid enough not to test before giving to a baby.

And even though I'd hope that any such case would be thrown out (as the parent should take responsibility) any business does NOT want the hassle - especially for something it hasn't even sold in the first place.

If some places do it, fine, but that's their look out. You won't find large pub chains doing it. Nor M&S, Tesco, Sainsbury's - all make it clear they'll only provide hot water or submerge your bottle/tin in hot water for you. If your local pub or greasy spoon does, again, great but don't expect anyone to do it or rely on them doing it.

As I've said, as a new dad, I've seen and read just how crazy things have got with no business wanting to suggest anything that might land them in trouble. As such, my parents are gobsmacked at what we're told do that they weren't. But, that's the way it is and it isn't going to change until we get rid of the 'where there's blame there's a claim' society.

Liam · 14 Apr 2013

wintonian said:
This is why there are no longer any plug sockets on Caledonian sleepers.

Since when? Must be recently, the last time I was in the lounge car would have been November and they were still there. Also never had a problem using the cleaners one under the seat in the seated car... Guard doesn't mind either.

wintonian · 14 Apr 2013

Liam said:
Since when? Must be recently, the last time I was in the lounge car would have been November and they were still there. Also never had a problem using the cleaners one under the seat in the seated car... Guard doesn't mind either.

Well when I used it a 18 months ago they had all been disabled due to misuse.

AnonymousUser1 · 14 Apr 2013

jonmorris0844 said:
You'll find very few places letting staff do it. It isn't down to incompetence, but rather a risk assessment that highlights the risk of overheating liquids and creating hot spots. It's worth noting that parents are advised not to use the microwave to heat milk at home, so shouldn't be asking others to do so!

Of course parents do at home (as do we) but accept the risk and usually check thoroughly. Thanks to the blame culture these days, if a parent didn't check something heated by someone else there would almost certainly be a claim.

exactly , it also prevents the TOC being implicated in any food poisoning , cross contamination, exposure to allergens etc related to warming foods not maintained within their Cold Chain.

jon0844 · 14 Apr 2013

Microwaving liquids is a bit hit and miss. Certainly when our son was really small and was taking very tiny amounts of milk (as in around 40ml) you'd nuke it in a 1000W microwave within 10 seconds. So you'd have to either turn down the power, or start the microwave and stop it manually (ours can't do less than 10 seconds).

Imagine how hard it would be for someone else to get it right.. too hot = bad. too cool, someone asks you to do it a little more = really bad.

asylumxl · 14 Apr 2013

Just wanted to add that my friend has taken a kettle and a microwave on a FGW HST before and had no issues.

deltic1989 · 15 Apr 2013

asylumxl said:
Just wanted to add that my friend has taken a kettle and a microwave on a FGW HST before and had no issues.

Might have been your mate I saw with the Rustlers then. That was on an FGW HST.
I agree it is a little OTT but when you look at the prices of the food at some railway outlets I can see the sense in it.

island · 15 Apr 2013

I challenge any suggestion that Rustlers are food!

Qwerty133 · 15 Apr 2013

island said:
I challenge any suggestion that Rustlers are food!

We've just been through this about mcdonalds on the McDonald's thread in general discussion forum

wintonian · 15 Apr 2013

Qwerty133 said:
We've just been through this about mcdonalds on the McDonald's thread in general discussion forum

Time to start it of in the KFC thread as well then. Anyone for a Burger King thread?

Mutant Lemming · 15 Apr 2013

The use of microwaves / kettles / hoovers / steam cleaning equipment etc by utilising the on board sockets seems to be a recurring feature - what has been the response from the TOC's and is there enough interest for a more dedicated section on what works on what trains?

telstarbox · 15 Apr 2013

Is this why some TOCs label the plugs 'for laptops and mobiles only' - to stop people bringing domestic appliances on board?

Mutant Lemming · 15 Apr 2013

telstarbox said:
Is this why some TOCs label the plugs 'for laptops and mobiles only' - to stop people bringing domestic appliances on board?

Well they haven't stopped me using the strimmer on LM trains yet.
(Although if they banned the use of electric ones people would only end up using those smelly petrol ones.)

Michael.Y · 16 Apr 2013

telstarbox said:
Is this why some TOCs label the plugs 'for laptops and mobiles only' - to stop people bringing domestic appliances on board?

I expect its because those types of plugs usually have a transformer built into them, and also to dissuade usage of things like hairdryers, straighteners and fondue sets.

cjmillsnun · 16 Apr 2013

wintonian said:
Time to start it of in the KFC thread as well then. Anyone for a Burger King thread?

A horse burger king?

wintonian · 16 Apr 2013

Mutant Lemming said:
Well they haven't stopped me using the strimmer on LM trains yet.
(Although if they banned the use of electric ones people would only end up using those smelly petrol ones.)

If that's what you use for personnel grooming. :lol:

I don't really understand why people want to use every kind of electric appliance on board, you wouldn't bring a microwave to a public house would you? But you Mobile communication devices on the other hand are just that and meant to usable pretty much everywhere.

If people really do think it's acceptable to bring anything to use on board then perhaps the would bring their washing machine from home when doing and ALR bash.

BTW do the have shaver lights on the sleepers?

LE Greys · 16 Apr 2013

I'm sure you've all heard my famous story from the Highland Cheiftain, just after the 'all electrical and electronic devices must be in silent mode' announcement.

Passenger: Can I use an arc welder?
Crank: What!?
Passenger: Can I use an arc welder if it's in silent mode?
Crank: <stunned silence>

Scotty · 17 Apr 2013

wintonian said:
If that's what you use for personnel grooming.

Why would you groom people on your payroll?

asylumxl · 17 Apr 2013

Scotty said:
Why would you groom people on your payroll?

Because you want them to look presentable!

Use of Microwave on trains

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