I have to agree that the way that Cameron has behaved during this time leaves a lot to be desired. Cancelling his Europe trip, recalling parliament early and now this. It's not necessary.
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Baroness Thatcher has died
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Butts
Veteran Member
Probably a case of "damned if you do and ........"
More to do with shouting down the dissenters and making sure the history books give a true reflection of the love and sadness that the nation feels for Kim il Sung who just happens to have a Birthday today.
Oh wait that can't be right he was male juche communist and she was a Female neoliberal, Laissez-faire, monetarist.....
RichmondCommu
Established Member
Hang on a minute, Tebbit certainly wasn't one of those!
sheff'd victoria
Member
I shall be their tomorrow, coach arrives at VCS at 0550am.
I'm going for a long walk tomorrow, possibly a round of golf (reckon the course will be fairly quiet).
Interesting to note that the poll currently has exactly 100 voters.
SS4
Established Member
Probably a case of "damned if you do and ........"
What wintonian said. Also by creating a misleadingly positive legacy popular history may forget some/all of the negatives. Who today remembers Churchill as being desperate to hold onto the Empire, especially India?
It would have been more appropriate for Cameron to express his sadness at her death and to comment on her policies which a Tory would see as beneficial, come back for the funeral and that would have been enough.
Instead it seems to me that he has realised how unpopular he is and is seeking to capitalise on her death to gain political points.
Metrailway
Member
It has been reported in the press today that most of the funeral plans for Baroness Thatcher were finalised under Gordon Brown's premiership in 2008. Brown pushed for a major large scale ceremonial funeral for Mrs Thatcher.
Cameron has continued with the plans inherited from the previous government.
Mrs Thatcher refused a state funeral when asked by the Blair government several years ago, apparently remarking, "I'm not Winston." The Blair Government planned a ceremonial funeral thereafter.
So anyone opposed to a ceremonial funeral for Baroness Thatcher, blame not just Cameron but also Blair and Brown.
Cameron has continued with the plans inherited from the previous government.
Mrs Thatcher refused a state funeral when asked by the Blair government several years ago, apparently remarking, "I'm not Winston." The Blair Government planned a ceremonial funeral thereafter.
So anyone opposed to a ceremonial funeral for Baroness Thatcher, blame not just Cameron but also Blair and Brown.
So, as with everything, a little context puts a whole new light on things. If we could all learn that lesson, the world would be a much better place.
May we have links to these press items so we can judge their veracity for ourselves?
Far too many people are only saying what they are to keep to their political agenda. Sadly, this is when we get misinformation and twisted truths that change history - and it doesn't seem to be a problem for anyone if it furthers their cause.
It will be interesting to see how people in 50-100 years look back on this time, having possibly been given a totally skewed story of how things were.. at a time when the sheer amount of information being stored and archived should make it possible to report things 100% accurately.
Still, it will make the job of historians a lot more interesting.
It will be interesting to see how people in 50-100 years look back on this time, having possibly been given a totally skewed story of how things were.. at a time when the sheer amount of information being stored and archived should make it possible to report things 100% accurately.
Still, it will make the job of historians a lot more interesting.
Johnuk123
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Please tell us when you get back if it really was worth it.
Please remember to wear a fully approved safety helmet so as not to be hit on the back of the head by a lump of coal or bottle of milk thrown by one of those poor South Yorkshire permanently disadvantaged victims of the savage Thatcher years.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
http://www.newstatesman.com/uk-politics/2008/07/state-funeral-thatcher-labour
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If the DM is to be believed in December 2011 she was having a state funeral so presumably something has changed since then.
and in 2008
and in 2008
That's a big if. As a source of information, I place the Daily Mail behind Viz in terms of veracity.
Eagle
Established Member
Churchill, the man who in 1940 ordered the detainment ("collar the lot!") of all male Italians in Britain, many of whom were second- or third-generation British citizens, in case they might be fascist sympathizers.
But of course who cares about that when he single-handedly won the Second World War (with definitely no help from that commie Stalin). :roll:
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
I was asking a question...not making a statement of fact.
SS4
Established Member
Fear not, a cordon sanitaire will be erected to keep any riff-raff or anyone who may disagree with
Sadly apart from the bits in strikethrough I can see happening
Oh you weren't being sarcastic
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Churchill was one of three co-signatories at both the Yalta and Tehran conferences to documentation that saw the forced relocation of all Cossack peoples after the Second World War.
His peacetime leadership didn't exactly set the world on fire either. He found himself without a purpose in 1945, after a complete but somewhat hollow victory in a country that had practically broken itself. Attlee promised a period of rebuilding and a bright future, which was evidently what the country wanted, because Labour got elected. That ultimately only half-worked, and in 1951, the country seemed to want to give Churchill another go. I think that the 51-55 Conservative government did try to pull the country up a bit (the 'New Elizabethan Era' and so on), but it made some dodgy decisions. This was the government that abolished the British Transport Commission and signed off the Modernisation Plan after all. It also had to deal with an emerging Cold War and quite a few colonial problems, particularly in Malaya and Kenya with the Mau Mau. Both were put down, quite brutally in the case of the Mau Mau, but ultimately neither colony stayed in British hands. How much the ageing Churchill was involved in any of this, I do not know, but it started on watch, although both ran on into Anthony Eden's premiership.
Much of this was conveniently forgotten when Churchill died, memories of the Battle of Britain being much in people's minds. Today's news media almost certainly would not have done so.
Mutant Lemming
Established Member
Along with his deployment of troops against the South Wales miners in his days as home secretary.
Teaboy1
Member
Well thats bloomin typical of southern tarts I must say.....!
Plus you cant buy lump coal, its quite rare ... and bottle of milk is highly unlikely to be glass... plastic or cardboard carton yes.
Mummy ? Where do poor people come from ?
Oh I think they inhabit sitcoms nowadays but when I was a girl, they lived in Yorkshire and the North.
Party time in Grimethorpe WMC Wednesday, everyone welcome!!
Polly Toynbee calling Ken clarke Brutus on Question Time was rather amusing I thought.
table38
Established Member
I'm glad the True-Blue Tories are winning the poll, with the Lib Dems in third place as usual 
DarloRich
Veteran Member
i note that the taxpayers alliance has been remarkabley silent about the £10m bill for the stat sorry ceremonial funeral for Thatcher. Why is that one wonders.......
table38
Established Member
Maybe because the £10m figure is pure speculation?
The actual cost will be released after the funeral, and it is expected that Thatcher's Estate will make a contribution.
Perhaps the Taxpayers Alliance are happy to wait for some actual facts
12CSVT
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It wasn't quite so straightforeward in the 1951 election. Due to a quirk of the 'First Past the Post' system the party with the most seats had fewer overall votes than the party which came second. (Also happened in 1929 and 1974).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_1951
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Maybe because the £10m figure is pure speculation?
The actual cost will be released after the funeral, and it is expected that Thatcher's Estate will make a contribution.
Perhaps the Taxpayers Alliance are happy to wait for some actual facts
we shall see - i bet they keep silent even when the "facts" are known.
A good day to bury bad news for that awful retailer going by the name of Tesco:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22179255
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22179255
Really? Do you really think that with so many people like you demanding to know how much was spent, that nobody will find out and publish the information?
I'd quite like to know the money allocated to the funeral when it was first planned in 2008, and wonder how much of the money is actually being spent on extra policing in case some idiots come out to not just protest but try and be clever and attempt to incite rioting. Ideally, people would have shown some respect and we could have saved a fortune on policing - but we all know that was never going to happen.
Don't these types of announcements have to be scheduled in advance? I'm pretty sure there are very strict rules on companies announcing results or any other financial related news - so doubt this was planned to slip out where it might be missed (assuming most people really care; did Tesco ever show signs of making a success of things in the US?).
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I was reading in the Financial Times a few months ago that the US arm of Tesco operations was on the way out - it has seemed inevitable for a long time now.
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