URGENT please help multiple 1000 pound fines

unfortunately from time to time i have had to travel to work without a ticket.
At some point i had my details taken in the last year cant recall exactly. reason for this is i simply didnt have the money for a ticket.

i have moved addresses in the year and am presuming i missed the letters only explanation.

i got stopped recently and had my details taken.

I was told i have multiple pending fines of 1000 pounds or more.

this is hugely concerning as i do not have a criminal record and i was told i will get one and go to jail over this.

i have no contact details for the office for fines nothing, no way of contacting them. i have no idea what to do here...

can anyone please advise??

If you had no money to pay for a ticket, did you seek any help from your employer? from family? from anyone else?

Your details have been taken several times so you have been caught and are aware that you should not travel without a ticket. Why did you continue to do it?

Do you know if you were ever prosecuted for the offences in the past? Given that you claim you have no recollection of any communication from the train company I guess not.

Which train company is it, or is it with many different companies?

My gut instinct is that you need to get yourself a solicitor, and quickly. If you are done this time for intent, and let's be honest it is perfectly possible that you have already been convicted before (either under the Byelaws or the Regulation of Railways Act) but you just don't know it, the worse case scenario is jail as you are a repeat offender.

Get a lawyer, now! Other than that, I am not sure how we can advise as you provided nothing we can analyse or comment on.

A similar outcome to bebu in http://railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=65576 is probably the best you can expect. You've already been told the worst case scenario.

I say the best, because your situations are poles apart. Bebu had paid for a ticket and made a mistake.

You can make a Statutory declaration to get all the offences quashed, as you did not receive the letters. This will not make the problem go away, as the train company will probably continue to pursue you.

Ultimately you will either be relying on the train company choosing not to pursue you further in the belief that they will not get any money back from you (since you have no money), or making a financial settlement to the train company, which may or may not be accepted.

Do you now possess money in the order of the fines?

More information is required methinks.

Who is telling you you have these fines?
Are they saying you have actually been prosecuted and found guilty?
£1000 seems very high. Presumably this is a fine plus enforcement and bailiff costs - or are they talking about the maximum penalty?

I have a suspicion that what is actually happening is that when the RPI did their checks and identified you they discovered that there are outstanding matters that the ToC has been unable to pursue as they had not traced your current address. How that they have it they will no doubt do so. If there are indeed a number of detected offences it is most likely that they will take the matter to court, and I would expect that they would use one of the more serious offences available to them that will carry a criminal record.

As others have implied it is possible that you have been prosecuted in your absence in which case you will need to complete a statutory declaration at the relevant court. If you call the court which covers the area where you were detected by RPIs in the past and ask them if there are any outstanding fines in your name they will be able to tell you if this is the case.

As you admit you are a repeat offender and the implication is that you have been detected more than one, I can only advise you to seek the assistance of a solicitor. The ToC will write to you in due course.

billo2007 said:

unfortunately from time to time i have had to travel to work without a ticket.
At some point i had my details taken in the last year cant recall exactly. reason for this is i simply didnt have the money for a ticket.

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Unfortunately buying a ticket is not optional. Unless you are in slavery, in which case you should contact the police, you should be receiving payment for your work. You need to allocate some of this money to paying for tickets.

i have moved addresses in the year and am presuming i missed the letters only explanation.

i got stopped recently and had my details taken.

I was told i have multiple pending fines of 1000 pounds or more.

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There is no such thing as a pending fine.

If prosecuted under the Regulation of Railways Act, the appropriate fine in the magistrates court would be 50-150% of your weekly income, depending on the circumstances.

There is no way that you have multiple £1000 fines.

It sounds like they haven't prosecuted you, but you will need to check on that.

Contact the magistrates court with your previous name and address and ask if there have been any prosecutions with those details.

My guess is there haven't, but you do need to check.

Based on what you say, I would imagine that the Train Company has sent some letters to your previous address asking for you to account for your actions in not paying your fines, which you haven't received because you no longer live there.

A number of things could happen now:

* they could still prosecute you, but depending on what the date of the offence last year was, it might be too late for this now.
* they might do nothing.

If you don't know how long ago it was, I would suggest that you write to the Train Company, having first checked with the Magistrates Court whether you have been prosecuted, along the following lines:

To Whom It May Concern,

I understand from one of your staff that you may have written to me within the last year at:

1 High Street
Old Address

concerning a ticketing/fares issue.

I am no longer resident at that address and did not receive any letters you may have sent. Could you please send any past and future correspondence about this matter to:

2 New Road
New Address

Regards,

Joe Bloggs




At what station did this take place?

It is entirely possible that you have been prosecuted and convicted in your absence and that you may have multiple outstanding fines totalling over £1,000. I guess the question is what do you want to achieve here? Be realistic: you are not going to make it go away at no cost, and in the very worst case, if you have been convicted and fined by a court and you ignore it all, you could find the Old Bill at your door some morning to take you to prison.

Advice to get a solicitor is both good and bad, because while you should get one, if, as you say, you don't have the money to buy a train ticket to work, then you won't be able to afford a solicitor either.

In the meantime, you need to contact all of the train companies whose services you have used without paying (or at least those whose staff have taken your details in connection with the non-payment of the fare) and ask what the status of the offences you have committed is as far as they know.

island said:

Advice to get a solicitor is both good and bad, because while you should get one, if, as you say, you don't have the money to buy a train ticket to work, then you won't be able to afford a solicitor either.

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Time to get in touch with the CAB and see if legal aid might help I guess.

All good advice given.

Furthermore, if you have been convicted in your absence and fines were issued by the court which you have then neglected to pay then it highly probable that there could be a non payment of fines warrant issued against you.

This would require a trip to the court to put right - and when I say put right, I mean make more manageable not make go away. If there is a non payment of fines warrant outstanding then short of having the money there and then, you will be taken to a police station and put before the next available court for where the fine is held. Worse case scenario is an unpleasant overnight stay at the police station waiting for transfer to the court where the fine is held all the more worse is the two are not near - I think Northampton County Court used to deal with these matters. No idea if they still do.

It is imperative that you take action now.

Northampton County Court handle online CIVIL claims. The County Court has nothing to do with criminal matters.

guys thank you for all the responses. im just in shock not having a train ticket can be that big a deal .its 100% my fault. its just the country im from is completely different a blind eye is turned. this is no valid excuse i am bang out of order.

i earn minimum wage, barely have any money to live im working in the city too im forced to take these trains.

im really really scared now, ive been trying to contact the guys in rail regularly but they dont even have a phone number, this matter is so serious that they could arrive anyday now.

what happened was the rpi called in, checked my id name address.
he said i have two pending 1000 or 1500 fines. exact words. pending whatever that means. but there were police there and then and i wasnt arrested does this mean anything in regards to prosecution? surely if a warrant was issued theyd have got me there and then. today i received a letter from southeastern in relation to being stopped in london bridge and told about the fines. they are asking for proof of id as they want to prosecute me. national insurance number etc.

this is all great advice, i intend to clear this matter up asap and will use any little money i do have to settle out of court.

can anyone give me contact details? i have the address of southeastern, i was going to just go out to london bridge office.

most offences happened on southeastern, some others on trains from waterloo east to surrey.

bb21 said:

Time to get in touch with the CAB and see if legal aid might help I guess.

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Very unlikely to get Legal Aid for this. It ends on the 31st March.

sonic2009 said:

Very unlikely to get Legal Aid for this. It ends on the 31st March.

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Not quite, that makes it sound as if Legal Aid is being abolished completely. Legal Aid is only being scaled back, and will be available in less situations than before. Whether it would still be available in this case, I have no idea.

Most of the changes relate to civil cases. There are few changes to the criminal side.

If the OP's circumstances are such that he is genuinly unable to afford rail travel to work, one would expect that he would qualify.

billo2007 said:

will use any little money i do have to settle out of court.

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From what you've posted above, I doubt that SE would be willing to settle out of court.

billo2007 said:

guys thank you for all the responses. im just in shock not having a train ticket can be that big a deal .its 100% my fault. its just the country im from is completely different a blind eye is turned. this is no valid excuse i am bang out of order.

i earn minimum wage, barely have any money to live im working in the city too im forced to take these trains.

im really really scared now, ive been trying to contact the guys in rail regularly but they dont even have a phone number, this matter is so serious that they could arrive anyday now.

what happened was the rpi called in, checked my id name address.
he said i have two pending 1000 or 1500 fines. exact words. pending whatever that means. but there were police there and then and i wasnt arrested does this mean anything in regards to prosecution? surely if a warrant was issued theyd have got me there and then. today i received a letter from southeastern in relation to being stopped in london bridge and told about the fines. they are asking for proof of id as they want to prosecute me. national insurance number etc.

this is all great advice, i intend to clear this matter up asap and will use any little money i do have to settle out of court.

can anyone give me contact details? i have the address of southeastern, i was going to just go out to london bridge office.

most offences happened on southeastern, some others on trains from waterloo east to surrey.

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Assuming you gave the correct address, wait a few weeks. Did you give the same address as the last two times?

If it has gone to court already, you ought to pay a visit to the court to enquire!

maniacmartin said:

From what you've posted above, I doubt that SE would be willing to settle out of court.

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does anyone know how i can contact these guys. I beleive its going to take wayyyyy too much time to write and sort this very complicated matter out. they do not even seem to provide a phone number... simply appauling.

I have done wrong but I am here to make ammends and i know ive made a mistake.

i have had alot of issues this year, a very bad break up which led to a gambling and drug addiction. I am now back working and getting my life back on track.

I was hoping i could make a payment plan with them and pay 10£ per month.
sounds like this is out of the question...

Nick W said:

Assuming you gave the correct address, wait a few weeks. Did you give the same address as the last two times?

If it has gone to court already, you ought to pay a visit to the court to enquire!

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no , this is the first time i have had to give my current address to southeastern since i moved house. they would have been given an old address at some point in the last 12 months to 6 months ago.



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the best part of all this is my job is reliant on not having a criminal record, ive never been prosecuted previously and have no record now.

billo2007 said:

and have no record now.

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But you might have! May have been convicted in absentia

Firstly, sorry to hear that you have had a lot to deal with, and good on you for attempting to make amends.

It's almost certain (IMO given the timescales) that you have already been convicted (in absentia) and already have a criminal record.

If I were you I'd

1. Find (presumably by telephoning and enquiring) and visit the court at which you have been convicted and make a statutory declaration. This effectively quashes the convictions.
2. Send a letter to the train company claiming that you have done this, acknowledging that you were court on the occasions without a valid ticket, that you regret your previous actions which were caused by self-induced poverty for which you take responsibility, that you are willing to pay the full costs incurred. You may wish to state that your income and disposable cash earnings and your intention to form a payment plan.

Nick W said:

Firstly, sorry to hear that you have had a lot to deal with, and good on you for attempting to make amends.

It's almost certain (IMO given the timescales) that you have already been convicted (in absentia) and already have a criminal record.

If I were you I'd

1. Find (presumably by telephoning and enquiring) and visit the court at which you have been convicted and make a statutory declaration. This effectively quashes the convictions.
2. Send a letter to the train company claiming that you have done this, acknowledging that you were court on the occasions without a valid ticket, that you regret your previous actions which were caused by self-induced poverty for which you take responsibility, that you are willing to pay the full costs incurred. You may wish to state that your income and disposable cash earnings and your intention to form a payment plan.

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thanks nick, this is the kind of advice i need. thank u again.
im not like a junkie. i just lost my the equivelent to my wife and it wasnt good obv.

there are so many courts here and there all uncontactable never pick up the phones, where do i even start? how would i have any idea which ones to check?

I was arrested once here before in relation to something similar, i had an argument with a rail attendant regarding a ticket, i got prosecuted, the ticket was not the source of prosecution though. I plead not guilty defended myself and the judge threw there case out. thank lord. it was 90% fabricated and she realised the consequences were very severe with my work.

this was only several weeks ago the hearing not guilty verdict, between this and being stopped at london bridge 2 weeks ago when i found out about these fines by the rpi, they have written to me today asking for ID , national insurance number etc this is all in relation to being stopped two weeeks ago.
this made me think theres no way i have been prosectuted, surely it would have come up in either of these situations?

either way im not going to rest on my laurels and i swear to god im going to sort the tickets out as a big big priority in future.

the above just makes me think that i havent been prosecuted yet.

surely the officers at the station would have arrested me if warrants were issues(that would mean id been prosecuted.)


If i have to go to court i will unfortunately be defending myself again. unless i can get legal aid.

billo2007 said:

does anyone know how i can contact these guys. I beleive its going to take wayyyyy too much time to write and sort this very complicated matter out.

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?

You need to write to them.

they do not even seem to provide a phone number... simply appauling.

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It's standard practice to make contact by letter. That way there is a proper written record of what has been said.

I was hoping i could make a payment plan with them and pay 10£ per month.
sounds like this is out of the question...

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Not necessarily.

the best part of all this is my job is reliant on not having a criminal record, ive never been prosecuted previously and have no record now.

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Actually we don't know that. You might already have a criminal record, without your knowledge.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

billo2007 said:

I was arrested once here before in relation to something similar, i had an argument with a rail attendant regarding a ticket, i got prosecuted, the ticket was not the source of prosecution though. I plead not guilty defended myself and the judge threw there case out. thank lord. it was 90% fabricated and she realised the consequences were very severe with my work.

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Could you explain what happened?

this was only several weeks ago the hearing not guilty verdict, between this and being stopped at london bridge 2 weeks ago when i found out about these fines by the rpi, they have written to me today asking for ID , national insurance number etc this is all in relation to being stopped two weeeks ago.
this made me think theres no way i have been prosectuted, surely it would have come up in either of these situations?

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No not necessarily.

either way im not going to rest on my laurels and i swear to god im going to sort the tickets out as a big big priority in future.

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It really isn't that complicated to 'sort out'. You just need to buy a ticket before you travel. If you could give some details of your journey and how often/when you make it, we could suggest the cheapest option.

surely the officers at the station would have arrested me if warrants were issues(that would mean id been prosecuted.)

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There would not be a warrant out for your arrest just because you had been fined for not paying your train fare. Plus the police aren't gods, they don't know everything you have done wrong.

You cannot make any assumptions.

If i have to go to court i will unfortunately be defending myself again. unless i can get legal aid.

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It sounds like you did ok last time....

You do not need to give them your National Insurance number. They do not have a legitimate reason to have it.

billo2007 said:

surely the officers at the station would have arrested me if warrants were issues(that would mean id been prosecuted.

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Only if they already knew there were warrants out against you. Non payment of fine warrants don't appear on PNC anyway so they would have to specifically check with the local office.

IIRC there is a possibility that a warrant could be issued, but it relates to the court convicting in absence, then requiring a statement of means, which if not returned leads to contempt of court and then a warrant could be issued.

Thanks for all your responses, got some bad news today with regards to my employment..

However I am writing a letter to them as we speak and returning there form where they ask for my details.

If you do sort this out then I agree, as earlier suggested, you get back on this forum to find help for cheaper ways to get into work. Sometimes it only involves a minor inconvenience (or none at all).