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Drinking water on trains with alcohol licence

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Flamingo

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Depends on the train. Certainly the tanks on a buffet vehicle should be filled with drinking water!

They are, but on HST's it is still not passed for human consumption until it is coming from the boiler, where as well as being boiled, it is also passed through a steriliser (UV I believe, though I may be mistaken), (also the storage tanks are chlorinated every 4 weeks).

With FGW, drinking water may be given out by the crew using their discretion - if somebody has the money to buy alcohol, they have the money to buy water would be my starting point.
 
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455driver

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Ordinarily in licenced premises (pubs/clubs etc) bottled water is not available to purchase so there isnt really an alternative to the alcoholic drinks (britvics etc dont count) but on a train there are many alternatives to alcoholic drinks.
 

RailProfileUK

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I personally think this would be a good idea. Imagine a group of people coming back from a day out and they have a 5 hour train journey back to the station where their car is parked car. 3 of them start drinking and the forth who is the designated driver gets tempted to join in, ends up drunk and crashes the car on the way back killing his/her passengers and a family coming the other way...

On the other hand though, it's everyone's own responsibility when alcohol is concerned and you have to be strong enough to say no if put in that sort of position.

It would be a nice gesture to receive free water on trains, but would their be enough in the storage tanks for everyone on a long trip? I.E. Manchester Piccadilly to Edinburgh on a packed 3 coach TP 185? The beverage cart doesn't usually get down the train untill after Preston due a lot of people having to stand.

Cheers
 

455driver

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I personally think this would be a good idea. Imagine a group of people coming back from a day out and they have a 5 hour train journey back to the station where their car is parked car. 3 of them start drinking and the forth who is the designated driver gets tempted to join in, ends up drunk and crashes the car on the way back killing his/her passengers and a family coming the other way...

What are you going on about?
You been on the funny fags! :roll:
 

Flamingo

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I personally think this would be a good idea. Imagine a group of people coming back from a day out and they have a 5 hour train journey back to the station where their car is parked car. 3 of them start drinking and the forth who is the designated driver gets tempted to join in, ends up drunk and crashes the car on the way back killing his/her passengers and a family coming the other way...

On the other hand though, it's everyone's own responsibility when alcohol is concerned and you have to be strong enough to say no if put in that sort of position.

It would be a nice gesture to receive free water on trains, but would their be enough in the storage tanks for everyone on a long trip? I.E. Manchester Piccadilly to Edinburgh on a packed 3 coach TP 185? The beverage cart doesn't usually get down the train untill after Preston due a lot of people having to stand.

Cheers

It's not storage tanks, it's bottled water, the storage tanks are for water for the boiler only.

Quite how many bottles would we need to carry, how would stock control be carried out, where would they be stored, and what would the cost be (which would be eventually passed on to the ticket price), just to think of the more obvious things?
 

RPI

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You get a free bottle of water on the table in the Pullman Restaurant on FGW.
 

RailProfileUK

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:lol: I am trying to say if there was the choice of free water would it possibly stop some people drinking on the train? The free water in bars someone mentioned I thought was for designated drivers or used to be? If you were a driver and you went into a bar and you showed a set of car keys you were allowed free water/soft drink, I know because I was roped into it loads of times ;)

Bottled water sounds abit more like it :)
 

transmanche

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The free water in bars someone mentioned I thought was for designated drivers or used to be? If you were a driver and you went into a bar and you showed a set of car keys you were allowed free water/soft drink, I know because I was roped into it loads of times
I can't say I've ever been in a pub/bar that's offered free soft drinks to 'designated drivers' or on production of a set of car keys - although I understand it's fairly common in the US.

The rationale behind why the Government mandated the availability of free tap water as pat of licence conditions, isn't specifically to do with drink-driving and is explained in post #17.
 

bnm

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How did they get away with that title in 1953, when, allegedly, you couldn't say 'winter draws on?'
No idea about the bar, though!

What's wrong with naming a village after a group of birds of the family Paridae?
 

Batman

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Ordinarily in licenced premises (pubs/clubs etc) bottled water is not available to purchase so there isnt really an alternative to the alcoholic drinks (britvics etc dont count) but on a train there are many alternatives to alcoholic drinks.

I've never been in a licensed premises where some form of non-alcoholic beverage hasn't been available for sale.

Even the most exclusive night clubs (and by that I mean ones where you can pay £150 a ticket for a private booth in the VIP area, no exaggeration, I went to one once) at least sell coca cola at the bar.
 

tsr

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It's not storage tanks, it's bottled water, the storage tanks are for water for the boiler only.

Quite how many bottles would we need to carry, how would stock control be carried out, where would they be stored, and what would the cost be (which would be eventually passed on to the ticket price), just to think of the more obvious things?

How do you think Midland Mainline managed to give out free tea and coffee to everyone (well, pretty much everyone)? ;)
 

Flamingo

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How do you think Midland Mainline managed to give out free tea and coffee to everyone (well, pretty much everyone)? ;)

No idea, but the cost of it was covered by ticket revenue or taxpayer subsidy.
 

Mvann

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The cost to make tea or coffee isn't that much and would probably have been costed in to the other items on sale.
 

edwin_m

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Free chilled drinking water is pretty much universal on Amtrak in the States (or was some years back when I visited). Probably just as well for journeys that may last three days. The trains also have to obey the laws of the state/county they are passing through, which means bars closing at some odd times and even toilets being locked out on occasion.
 

jon0844

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I've never been in a licensed premises where some form of non-alcoholic beverage hasn't been available for sale.

Even the most exclusive night clubs (and by that I mean ones where you can pay £150 a ticket for a private booth in the VIP area, no exaggeration, I went to one once) at least sell coca cola at the bar.

It's probably cheaper to buy coke from someone in the toilet though. :D
 

SteamPower

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I don't understand why tap water should be free when there's a cost to the person supplying it. I could understand a demand for it to be sold at a break-even price, however.
 

JohnB57

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I don't understand why tap water should be free when there's a cost to the person supplying it. I could understand a demand for it to be sold at a break-even price, however.
You could apply the same logic to, say, toilets. How would you feel about having to pay for that facility in a pub or restaurant? Or a train for that matter?
 

SteamPower

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You could apply the same logic to, say, toilets. How would you feel about having to pay for that facility in a pub or restaurant? Or a train for that matter?

Given the state of some toilets on trains and in pubs I would be happy to pay a minimal fee if it meant they were better maintained.
 

jon0844

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It seems quite normal to charge for using toilets abroad, including service stations (where in the UK they must be provided free of charge 24/7).

I am not totally against paying, but there's always the issue of not actually having the correct change. If a toilet could also give entry to someone using a contact less card (even Oyster in London) then I wouldn't be too upset even though I'd still prefer free!

But, back to water, what would a charge realistically be? A few pence? Hardly worth the hassle. Even people that order food in a restaurant/bar and then ask for tap water to save money are better left alone too, given they might not eat there otherwise. However, on a train there's hardly an endless supply of clean drinking water, or the means to carry unlimited stock of bottled water, so I can accept a charge.
 

JohnB57

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The point is that the provision of toilets and, now, free tap water is a legal requirement in all eat-in restaurants and licensed premises so the cost has to be considered an overhead that applies across the board - it doesn't discriminate unfairly between competing businesses. They are facilities that you already pay for in the price of your pint, meal or train ticket. If you charge extra, most people won't pay. They'll find a free alternative.
 

Statto

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It seems quite normal to charge for using toilets abroad, including service stations (where in the UK they must be provided free of charge 24/7).

I am not totally against paying, but there's always the issue of not actually having the correct change. If a toilet could also give entry to someone using a contact less card (even Oyster in London) then I wouldn't be too upset even though I'd still prefer free!

But, back to water, what would a charge realistically be? A few pence? Hardly worth the hassle. Even people that order food in a restaurant/bar and then ask for tap water to save money are better left alone too, given they might not eat there otherwise. However, on a train there's hardly an endless supply of clean drinking water, or the means to carry unlimited stock of bottled water, so I can accept a charge.

Quite a few main stations charge for use of Toilets[Lime Street & Manc Picc charge 30p, think all the London terminal stations charge for use of Toilets as well], & i don't mind paying 30p for use of Toilets, keeps out the undesirables plus the Toilets have attendant keeping them clean & well stocked.
 

tsr

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Quite a few main stations charge for use of Toilets[Lime Street & Manc Picc charge 30p, think all the London terminal stations charge for use of Toilets as well], & i don't mind paying 30p for use of Toilets, keeps out the undesirables plus the Toilets have attendant keeping them clean & well stocked.

St Pancras seems to do OK without charging. I guess this may be something to do with international passengers not having 20p and 10p coins handy, or it may be some sort of planning or regulatory requirement that I've forgotten. The toilets do have cleaners walking around most of the time, and there are a fair number of TOC/BTP people in the area, too, which must help. Generally, I have no problem with charging for toilets - it does indeed seem to keep unwanted clients out, and if people are that desperate to save a couple of pence, they will probably opt to go on the train, if at all possible.

However, this is rather off-topic. You need to go to the toilet and should expect to be able to, where reasonable, and at a very minimal cost. However, you should on the other hand be able to plan and bring with you a bottle of water for a train journey - I do this, and it's not hard.
 
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transmanche

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Quite a few main stations charge for use of Toilets[Lime Street & Manc Picc charge 30p, think all the London terminal stations charge for use of Toilets as well],
Network Rail operated stations charge 30p for the use of toilets.

St Pancras seems to do OK without charging. I guess this may be something to do with international passengers not having 20p and 10p coins handy, or it may be some sort of planning or regulatory requirement that I've forgotten.
I think it's simply that St Pancras isn't operated by Network Rail.
 

transmanche

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That may be so, but some SWT stations (Clapham Jn, Richmond and Guildford spring to mind) charge a fee, so it's not limited to NR.
Yes, but I thought it was clearly in the context of 'all London terminal stations'... or did you seriously expect me to list every station in the country which charges for the use of toilets?

The point being that the reason Kings's Cross charges and St Pancras doesn't is simply because they are operated by different companies.
 
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