• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Which TOC/ route has the worst fare evasion?

Status
Not open for further replies.
I

island

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2010
Messages
16,113
Location
0036
I think there's a lot of it in Southeastern land as well.

And Port Talbot Parkway must be rife with evasion. Unstaffed after early evening with the TVM in the booking hall, and served primarily by HSTs so easy to spot where the guard is dispatching from and head the opposite direction with little chance of being gripped.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

C

crispy1978

Member
Joined
4 Feb 2013
Messages
1,037
Location
Scarborough
My regular trains are TP and NR - and it does seem to vary a lot. TP I have found to generally be pretty good from Scarborough to York (and vice versa), but tend to be more lax when you travel beyond York. With NR, I rarely find anyone checking tickets, well under 20% I would say.

Even EC which I travel from time to time I get from Kings Cross to York (or vice versa) without a ticket check - though when I go North they usually do check my tickets.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I have travelled a few times on the Cambrian Coast Line - the ticket checks on there are a lot better, mainly because of the number of request stops - so every time someone gets on a train, they need to find their destination to ascertain if there is a need to stop at request stops (unless someone has already requested all the request stops, which I would have thought is generally unlikely).
 
Monty

Monty

Established Member
Joined
12 Jun 2012
Messages
2,352
I'd could be considered biased, but I think the Hounslow loop in South West London is pretty dire when it comes to ticketless travel. Oh and you of course have those little darlings on their way to Kingston who alight at either Hampton Wick or Norbiton to avoid the barriers at Kingston (I am aware Norbiton has them too, but I hardly ever see them manned).
 
Flamingo

Flamingo

Established Member
Joined
26 Apr 2010
Messages
6,810
island said:
I think there's a lot of it in Southeastern land as well.

And Port Talbot Parkway must be rife with evasion. Unstaffed after early evening with the TVM in the booking hall, and served primarily by HSTs so easy to spot where the guard is dispatching from and head the opposite direction with little chance of being gripped.
Click to expand...

Tell me about it. It is unbarriered, with only occasional ticket checks. They view tickets as an optional extra.
 
A

Antman

Established Member
Joined
3 May 2013
Messages
6,842
I would think South Eastern must have a lot of fare evasion, ticket gates at many stations are left open and unstaffed all day and on train ticket checks are few and far between.
 
W

work-traveller

Member
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
411
This route offers a marvelous opportunity for fare evasion as the frequent Virgin WC and Cross Country trains rarely have a ticket inspection before they leave Stockport heading south. A point that I'm sure isn't lost on many of the punters who hop off at Stockport. Indeed, the few times I have seen ticket inspections before Stockport there never fails to be someone traveling to Stockport who has to buy a ticket when challenged.
 
Deerfold

Deerfold

Veteran Member
Joined
26 Nov 2009
Messages
12,626
Location
Yorkshire
transmanche said:
One exception to that is DLR, which has an automated passenger counting system to capture the number of passengers using each station. There's a contractual target to keep ticketless travel below 3% across the system, with no single station exceeding 6%. (In 2011 the level of ticketless travel on DLR was running at 1%.)
Click to expand...

How does that work? I can see how you can count people, but how do you count tickets? What if they've got a paper travelcard or a Tracelcard Oyster which they haven't touched in?
 
gnolife

gnolife

Established Member
Joined
4 Nov 2010
Messages
2,028
Location
Johnstone
telstarbox said:
Stockport has staff checking tickets in the subway for most of the day to avoid this issue.
Click to expand...

Although they often seem to pick the quieter of the two sets of island platforms IE barriering 1 and 2 in the morning, and switching to 3, 3a and 4 in the afternoon. I've never seen 0 barriered
 
J

jb

Member
Joined
18 Dec 2011
Messages
369
BrownE said:
So I'd say that means Guildford have 1000 people evading a fare per week, that's not a small number for one station.
Click to expand...

You can add a healthy chunk of people who board and alight at London Road to any tally of ticketless scallywags in Guildford.
 
4

455driver

Veteran Member
Joined
10 May 2010
Messages
11,332
Whenever there was a block on at London road there always seemed to be a long line of "customers"! :lol:
 
Deerfold

Deerfold

Veteran Member
Joined
26 Nov 2009
Messages
12,626
Location
Yorkshire
BrownE said:
I'd say Guildford Station is quite bad:


So I'd say that means Guildford have 1000 people evading a fare per week, that's not a small number for one station.


Alternatively, the staff are really clumsy or the figure was rounded up (I have no evidence of either - obviously)
Click to expand...

Well the staff don't seem to know how to spell "lose" so it's possible.
 
A

Antman

Established Member
Joined
3 May 2013
Messages
6,842
On South Eastern has anybody ever seen the ticket gates at Rochester in use? They were installed last year at no small cost but rumour is they "don't work".

Likewise at Tunbridge Wells I've never seen the ticket gates (two sets) in use, possibly because it costs more to staff them than the revenue that is recouped?

At many SET the operation of ticket gates is very hit and miss.
 
tamesidedepot

tamesidedepot

Member
Joined
3 Jun 2012
Messages
83
gnolife said:
Although they often seem to pick the quieter of the two sets of island platforms IE barriering 1 and 2 in the morning, and switching to 3, 3a and 4 in the afternoon. I've never seen 0 barriered
Click to expand...

In a morning Northern/G4S tend to do the block on 3/3a/4 with VT on 1 and 2. As for 0, I have also never seen any checks there. it is most unusual for anybody to be at 1/2 in the afternoon.

As for on-train checks, these are more common in the morning in to Manchester on Northern services - I rarely get a VT/XC towards work. Heading home in the evening I tend to experience more checks on ATW and Northern, although I did have my ticket checked yesterday on an 11 coach Pendo passing Ardwick station. I was in the vestibule of coach D though.
 
T

Tibbs

Member
Joined
22 Aug 2012
Messages
886
Location
London
LM has no facitility for checking Oyster Cards, so it wouldn't surprise me if enterprising souls are dumb-belling between Watford, Bushey, Harrow & Wealdstone and Euston.
 
P

pemma

Veteran Member
Joined
23 Jan 2009
Messages
31,474
Location
Knutsford
One thing to note is the frequency of ticket inspections aren't necessarily related to the number of passengers who are fare evadors. This is especially the case on routes where penalty fares apply or services with substantial differences between peak and off-peak pricing and 'buy before you board' is strictly implemented.

Another thing to note is someone who hasn't been given no opportunity to buy a ticket (before boarding, on the train and after alighting) isn't a fare evader.
 
A

Antman

Established Member
Joined
3 May 2013
Messages
6,842
Tibbs said:
LM has no facitility for checking Oyster Cards, so it wouldn't surprise me if enterprising souls are dumb-belling between Watford, Bushey, Harrow & Wealdstone and Euston.
Click to expand...

I had assumed all rail staff had the hand held gadget for checking Oyster's......clearly not:o
 
Deerfold

Deerfold

Veteran Member
Joined
26 Nov 2009
Messages
12,626
Location
Yorkshire
Steve Ford said:
I had assumed all rail staff had the hand held gadget for checking Oysters......clearly not:o
Click to expand...

No, several of the long distance TOCs don't - including those for whom there are no valid Oyster single fares but splitting with travelcards on Oyster can be helpful (I'm quite sure neither Virgin or EC have them and I'm sure there's plenty more).
 
P

plastictaffy

Member
Joined
18 Nov 2012
Messages
1,104
Location
Unfortunately, Maps has stopped.
Tibbs said:
LM has no facitility for checking Oyster Cards, so it wouldn't surprise me if enterprising souls are dumb-belling between Watford, Bushey, Harrow & Wealdstone and Euston.
Click to expand...

I think you'll find they'll also be using the Oyster cards as far as Kings Langley, Apsley, and I've even had one silly cow tell me that "it's okay, my Oyster card works as far as Hemel, innit......"

The classic trick for the "Oystered" commuters that get on at the above stations is to be in the middle of the train at WFJ - there's a reader by the station building, so they leap off, tap in, and leap back on. They know they don't have a huge chance of getting checked at that time of day because the train is
a) normally a 12 car, and you MUST be at cab 2/3 at Berkhamsted for the despatch monitor - which they know!!
b) so busy that they know the chances of you coming through are slim to nil.
c) normally booked to run into platform 18 at Euston, because it goes out empty to Camden, and of course those of you in the know will know that there are no barriers at that end of the station!!

That explains why so many of them looked soooooo pained on Friday when I came through all 12 cars because someone was working the doors for me!!!!!
Some of them actually looked like they'd trodden in something unpleasant when they saw me coming, and one or two even commented that they'd "not been checked on this service for months".
 
T

theageofthetra

On Moderation
Joined
27 May 2012
Messages
3,504
Have never seen inspections at Brixton, no barriers either. Can't be many stations in central London which have the levels of abuse in z1/2 as this one except possibly Loughborough junction?
 
class303

class303

Member
Joined
5 Sep 2011
Messages
391
Maybe GA are reading this thread as I did encounter RPIs this Friday. Off peak service from Chingford to Liverpool st, about 3 people in my carriage including me. They speak to one guy who doesn't have a ticket, so the bloke jumps off at hackney downs thinking they won't follow him, WRONG. They tell him he has to stop and caution him in the underpass under Hackney Downs, he complies at 1st but upon realising they don't have any right to physically stop him, casually walks towards the exit. RPI shouts to chap on gate line not to let that guy past, bloke just barges through the wide gate to zero resistance. another victory for the fare dodgers, well except for ending up in Hackney instead of bethnal green.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I note Hackney Downs does now have barriers.
 
A

Antman

Established Member
Joined
3 May 2013
Messages
6,842
theageofthetra said:
Have never seen inspections at Brixton, no barriers either. Can't be many stations in central London which have the levels of abuse in z1/2 as this one except possGibly Loughborough junction?
Click to expand...

No barriers at Elephant & Castle either and very rarely any manual check
 
O

oversteer

Member
Joined
26 Jan 2011
Messages
726
plastictaffy said:
That explains why so many of them looked soooooo pained on Friday when I came through all 12 cars because someone was working the doors for me!!!!!
Click to expand...

Let me guess, they asked for a single to Euston.. and then travelled back on the 1805.

I could do both legs of my commute without having to go through a barrier.. I bet loads do.

I think I've been checked 3 or 4 times in the last year, and I don't believe I have seen a RPI once.
 
B

big_dirt

Member
Joined
16 Feb 2011
Messages
161
Steve Ford said:
No barriers at Elephant & Castle either and very rarely any manual check
Click to expand...

I'd estimate once per week at Elephant with approx 20 bodies there between FCC and BTP.

I've seen people challenged on board FCC trains to Sutton who have told the RPI to clear off and then get off at Loughborough Junction or Herne Hill. The RPIs just accept it.
 
Last edited:
I

insidetrack77

Member
Joined
22 Feb 2013
Messages
34
Location
Scotland
p123 said:
May be selfish in choosing my local ToC, but I'd have to say it's a high chance it's Scotrail on their Glasgow suburban routes. Although, I think they know it themselves, hence the installation of all the ticket gates in the city centre.

There are few - genuinly very very few - occasions when I'm on a train on the North Clyde or Argyle Lines where I don't see kids/teenagers/young adults constantly walking up and down the train avoiding the ticket inspector. Often the toilets are constantly 'engaged' with people hiding from ticket inspectors, and I also often see people running off a train, along the platform and back on at the other end to avoid ticket checks.

Furthermore, around once a fortnight (on average) I see people lying about which station they've boarded at when purchasing tickets.

I've also seen neds (Scottish 'chavs') simply say to ticket inspectors that they've not got any money, and won't be paying.

The whole situation on N. Clyde and Argyle is a disgrace at the moment with regards to fare evasion - although I'm sure my frustration is nothing compared to what the staff have to put up with. I really wish Scotrail would make all the stations on this route like LU with one entrance and exit with a ticket office and ticket gates!
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more, having used this line frequently myself. The difficulty for Scotrail is that because of discrepancies in Scottish law, apparently there is no basis for a penalty fare system to be put in operation.

Scotrail do apparently have a 'Fraud and Security' team however their activity seems restricted to part-time stints at stations with automated barriers, seriously defeating the purpose of their existence.
 
I

island

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2010
Messages
16,113
Location
0036
I thought the problem was Scots law making private prosecutions almost impossible.
 
A

Antman

Established Member
Joined
3 May 2013
Messages
6,842
big_dirt said:
I'd estimate once per week at Elephant with approx 20 bodies there between FCC and BTP. RPIs intimidating in their appearance too. Wooly caps pulled down to eye level, guys covered in tattoos.

I've seen people challenged on board FCC trains to Sutton who have told the RPI to clear off and then get off at Loughborough Junction or Herne Hill. The RPIs just accept it.
Click to expand...


I have occasionally seen a blitz at Elephant & Castle backed up by BTP because without them the local oiks will just tell RPI's to get lost (or worse) as your on train experience shows.
 
P

p123

Member
Joined
1 Oct 2011
Messages
146
insidetrack77 said:
Couldn't agree more, having used this line frequently myself. The difficulty for Scotrail is that because of discrepancies in Scottish law, apparently there is no basis for a penalty fare system to be put in operation.

Scotrail do apparently have a 'Fraud and Security' team however their activity seems restricted to part-time stints at stations with automated barriers, seriously defeating the purpose of their existence.
Click to expand...

Ah, I never really thought about Scots law being the issue. Although, couldn't they use bylaws? Similar to the alcohol one recently brought into force?

Either way, I'm of the firm belief that ticket gates are the way forward. If every station was gated - London Underground style, with one entrance/exit and ticket office - there would be no fare evasion. I've noticed travel on these routes has increased quite a lot in recent years, so I'm sure it could be financially justified.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top