Nigel Farage

transmanche · 27 May 2013

MattE2010 said:
UKIP's an extreme right wing party? No-one will deny they are right wing but 'extreme'? Isn't such a label best left for the BNP, Nazi Party etc? You know, parties who actually are extreme.

Wanting to deport people who are currently legally resident in this country? I'd say that was 'extreme'.

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LE Greys · 27 May 2013

transmanche said:
Of course it's often forgotten that the House of Commons passed a bill in 1863 which would have mandated the use of the metric system across the British Empire - but it never reached the House of Lords, so never became law.

And if it had been made law, there would never have been any metric martyrs claiming that pounds are part of the British culture... in the same way you don't see people clamouring for the return of the groat, grain or perch.

There are a few. I for one would like to see the shilling revived and the penny abolished (partly because the penny is effectively worthless, partly to restore our traditional currency).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

transmanche said:
Wanting to deport people who are currently legally resident in this country? I'd say that was 'extreme'.

I'd say it was populist, but a reasonably widespread view (not one that I agree with, but never mind). However, demonstrating that view is a mistake, since it allows centre-left parties to claim guilt by association.

jb · 27 May 2013

LE Greys said:
I'd say it was populist, but a reasonably widespread view (not one that I agree with, but never mind). However, demonstrating that view is a mistake, since it allows centre-left parties to claim guilt by association.

A "view" can be populist, reasonably widespread yet still extreme. Particularly when discussed in the context of fringe political elements with zero (that is, zero) prospect of ever bringing such a view to fruition.

Butts · 30 May 2013

jb said:
A "view" can be populist, reasonably widespread yet still extreme. Particularly when discussed in the context of fringe political elements with zero (that is, zero) prospect of ever bringing such a view to fruition.

This sounds like a description of Capital Punishment at least in terms of Political Parties or parts within them.

I wonder if UKIP have a policy on Capital Punishment ?

SS4 · 30 May 2013

Butts said:
This sounds like a description of Capital Punishment at least in terms of Political Parties or parts within them.

I wonder if UKIP have a policy on Capital Punishment ?

From the 2010 manifesto with the usual disclaimer about datedness.

For controversial public issues involving law and order that are outside party politics such as capital punishment etc, UKIP will allow referenda to decide the issues. UKIP’s standard criterion is that 5% of the registered electorate must sign a petition within a 6 month national time limit.

Reading that page makes me sick. Crime has been rising (yet police stats say much the opposite which leads me to believe UKIP are lying out of their arses or the scope of crime has been extended) and naturally it's the EU's fault :roll:. In an original twist they pinched the Coalition motto - "It's all the previous Labour government's fault"

MidnightFlyer · 30 May 2013

Against, as far as I know; they favour a stricter approach to crime and punishment (than we have now) I believe, but I don't think they approve of the death penalty or its reintroduction. Note also the normal warnings when reading three year old manifestos (that extends to all parties btw): things can change.

Arglwydd Golau · 30 May 2013

There was an interesting article in the Guardian (yes,yes, I know!) yesterday by the founder of UKIP, Alan Sked, who left UKIP when 'it became a magnet for bigots'...must admit that I didn't know too much of UKIP's origins. The article bemoans the lack of coherent opposition from the left to the EU.
(as an aside, Keir Hardie would probably have left new Labour.....or at least I hope he would!)

Butts · 30 May 2013

Arglwydd Golau said:
There was an interesting article in the Guardian (yes,yes, I know!) yesterday by the founder of UKIP, Alan Sked, who left UKIP when 'it became a magnet for bigots'...must admit that I didn't know too much of UKIP's origins. The article bemoans the lack of coherent opposition from the left to the EU.
(as an aside, Keir Hardie would probably have left new Labour.....or at least I hope he would!)

Keir Hardie was an MP in Merthyr Tydfil was he not - amongst other places ?

TOCDriver · 30 May 2013

The left wing element are a far bigger threat to the Uk than UKIP will ever be. If you don't agree to their views, you're a racist. people are beginning to see through them and it's about time too.

ReverendFozz · 30 May 2013

The left and right are all as bad as each other..

Some far left groups are just right wing in disguise, we hear calls from them like ban the BNP and ban the EDL while speaking out for free speech, sounds hypocritical to me.

Ok, lets ban groups who dont agree with the left, but lets ban the UAF and Anti-Nazi League at the same time

jon0844 · 31 May 2013

You only need to read some horrid and extremely offensive comments written on The Guardian website (against the Tory Government or individual Tory MPs) to see that left wing people can have just as much hatred as right wingers.

yorksrob · 31 May 2013

Generally, I think the idea of having a constitutional mechanism whereby a suitable quorum of the electorate can force a referendum to be a good one, and not just for law and order. It could be a useful bulwark against governments forcing unpopular policies through without support, such as a new round of Beeching cuts, for example.

Arglwydd Golau · 31 May 2013

Butts said:
Keir Hardie was an MP in Merthyr Tydfil was he not - amongst other places ?

Yes, he was, probably easier to be a Scot representing a Welsh constituency in those days

DarloRich · 31 May 2013

Butts said:
Keir Hardie was an MP in Merthyr Tydfil was he not - amongst other places ?

I think only Merthyr Tydfil & West Ham South

Arglwydd Golau · 31 May 2013

jonmorris0844 said:
You only need to read some horrid and extremely offensive comments written on The Guardian website (against the Tory Government or individual Tory MPs) to see that left wing people can have just as much hatred as right wingers.

I wasn't trying to provoke any anti-Guardian hysteria, I thought that the article was interesting because both the left and the right (if that's what you want to call them) have strong views on the issue of the EU, heavens, we could even have Nigel Farage and Bob Crow speaking on the same platform, both agreeing that the UK needs to leave the EU (but for different reasons)

Butts · 14 Jun 2013

Watching Farage on Question Time last night he seems to be looking a bit trimmer on the waistline front.

Perhaps he has been "majoring on the fags" and "minoring on the ale" to bring about this transformation.

George Galloway was on as well and he also seems to have shifted a bit of beef.

Butts · 20 Sep 2013

Well Farage has certainly got his hands full with Geoffrey Bloom who seems even more unreconstructed than me (and that's saying something

)

Have his remarks been blown out of proportion ?

Life seems so serious today and every glib remark is pounced upon and castigated by the pc brigade in the 24 hour media circus.

At least Bloom had something interesting if controversial to say :idea:

Arglwydd Golau · 20 Sep 2013

Butts said:
Well Farage has certainly got his hands full with Geoffrey Bloom who seems even more unreconstructed than me (and that's saying something )

Have his remarks been blown out of proportion ?

Life seems so serious today and every glib remark is pounced upon and castigated by the pc brigade in the 24 hour media circus.

At least Bloom had something interesting if controversial to say

Is he (Bloom) that out of touch that he was unaware of the current meaning of the word that he used to describe women?

MidnightFlyer · 20 Sep 2013

Butts said:
Well Farage has certainly got his hands full with Geoffrey Bloom who seems even more unreconstructed than me (and that's saying something )

Have his remarks been blown out of proportion ?

Life seems so serious today and every glib remark is pounced upon and castigated by the pc brigade in the 24 hour media circus.

At least Bloom had something interesting if controversial to say

I was at a conference yesterday (not the mainstream one that commenced today) at which he and several other big UKIP names spoke at. I'm not a huge fan of the way he acts and I think that in the long run it will probably damage more than aid the party but I genuinely think his heart's in the right place. I don't believe for a minute he genuinely goes out of his way to knowingly insult women or 'Africans' (though Bongo Bongo land was never specified as anywhere). What I found more frustrating I guess is the fact that his antics today have cast a shadow over the rest of the matter, a 20th anniversary conference on the back of a hugely successful year for UKIP. (A nice stat from the meeting yesterday was that UKIP generated a bigger turnout than Labour's equivalent event did!)

Xenophon PCDGS · 20 Sep 2013

MattE2010 said:
I don't believe for a minute he genuinely goes out of his way to knowingly insult women or 'Africans' (though Bongo Bongo land was never specified as anywhere). What I found more frustrating I guess is the fact that his antics today have cast a shadow over the rest of the matter, a 20th anniversary conference on the back of a hugely successful year for UKIP.

On Radio 4 this evening, two points were made:-

1)...Nigel Farage states that Bloom has ruined the conference.

2)...Bloom has now had the party whip withdrawn.

starrymarkb · 20 Sep 2013

Did anyone else see the picture of the malfunctioning big screen that gave him a mustache like an infamous German dictator?

SS4 · 21 Sep 2013

starrymarkb said:
Did anyone else see the picture of the malfunctioning big screen that gave him a mustache like an infamous German dictator?

In case anyone hasn't though

I prefer to think it was a perfectly square bit of dirt

asylumxl · 21 Sep 2013

SS4 said:
In case anyone hasn't though

I prefer to think it was a perfectly square bit of dirt

Father Ted at its best

.

Johnuk123 · 22 Sep 2013

I think the trivial remarks by Bloom will have no effect on UKIP's surge in popularity.

All the other parties have had members jailed for fraud theft and lies so they're hardly in any position to criticise.

SS4 · 22 Sep 2013

It's hilarious that Farage tries to come across as an average Joe Bloggs when every public appearance is stage managed along with the best of them. What's sad it that it seems to work.

UKIP also like to portray themselves as the party of the people but they're tax policies belie this.

deltic · 22 Sep 2013

Only eight of the 13 UKIP MEPs elected in 2009 still have the party whip, though they've gained Roger Helmer so still have nine MEPs

TheKnightWho · 23 Sep 2013

I suspect that this business with Bloom will play to Farage's advantage if he's got an ounce of sense. His party is currently in danger of being typecast as the "Little England Tories", but withdrawing the whip and suspending him from the party can be a way of distancing UKIP from that image.

Farage needs to appeal to a working class base to have any chance of making headway, as they've exhausted their growth in the old Tory stomping grounds. Farage won't alienate anyone by punishing Bloom, but he will potentially prevent traditional Labour supporters being driven away by him making headlines as a toffy old duffer, which isn't exactly their favourite sort of politician.

Johnuk123 said:
I think the trivial remarks by Bloom will have no effect on UKIP's surge in popularity.

All the other parties have had members jailed for fraud theft and lies so they're hardly in any position to criticise.

Most parties don't let their MPs get away with that sort of behaviour time and again, and only punish their members when it gets in the way of some good press attention at a party conference, though.

For a lot of us it's less what Bloom did, and more the apparent tolerance of it. I've also heard the recording; much awkward laughter to be heard. It really wasn't even close to being funny.

SS4 · 23 Sep 2013

TheKnightWho said:
Farage needs to appeal to a working class base to have any chance of making headway, as they've exhausted their growth in the old Tory stomping grounds. Farage won't alienate anyone by punishing Bloom, but he will potentially prevent traditional Labour supporters being driven away by him making headlines as a toffy old duffer, which isn't exactly their favourite sort of politician.
.

He has to manage that without revealing UKIP's economic policy or at least those parts (and there are many) that don't help the working class.

Taxation needs to be drastically reduced but only alongside equally drastic cuts in public spending. A Public Spending Review is not the object of this paper but UKIP can show how to reduce annual expenditure by £90 billion at a stroke without reducing major public services.

Pretty Libertarian thinking and not at all conductive to the working class' needs. Cuts to public services benefit those who can pay in the private sector - namely the rich.

People spend their money more wisely than politicians, only politicians would disagree.

People spend money on things which (usually directly) benefit them and their family. Politicians (for the most part) spend money on those things which benefit the nation and society. Two different things, and only government would ever spend money on infrastructure.

Political taxes raise very little revenue, the main thrust of UKIP tax policy will be flat tax with high thresholds, for too long the tax entry level has been too low. In an over generous welfare state this creates massive diversion from the original safety net concept of Beveridge to welfare life style choices. There is also astonishing complex tax administration.

Do you even need me to tell you why this is bad for the working class in a time when zero hour contracts are high, underemployment is high and unemployment is high and wages are shrinking in real terms?

The welfare state very rarely funds lifestyles and UKIP know this full well. They neglect to mention state pension is the highest DWP expense.

Flat tax is simple to administer and more importantly fair to everyone. Progressive tax rates mean regressive incentives. Tax is a form of confiscation of money from one group of citizens to arbitrarily give, by politicians, to another group.

Flat tax means the bottom pay a higher proportion. Granted their policy of raising the personal allowance is a good thing

Much of this revenue is wasted. Doctors and nurses we need, quangocrats and fat cats at the Town Hall we do not.

This promise has been made for as long as I have paid a passing interest to politics. It still hasn't been done. UKIP cronies no doubt will keep their important quango positions.

Income tax is the first port of call for radical reform. The tax free allowance pitched at £13,000 per year offers all workers a fair chance of keeping a significant amount of their own money. The allowance should be transferable between couples recognising that if one spouse remains at home to bring up a family they are an equally valuable member of society as a working partner.

This is good for the working class - as long as that £13,000 is per person rather than per couple in which case it's the opposite.

I also think voters are getting wise to the excuse that it's someone else's fault when it comes to policies after it's abuse by the coalition.

I wasn't alive for the Falklands War so could someone tell me if the situation in Gibraltar is similar to the Falklands? Farage seems to think so whilst managing to ignore the possibility that we're doing the exact same thing at home :roll:

edit: This is what Farage reminds me of: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K63M1oMjfgA

yorksrob · 23 Sep 2013

There‘s a lot of politically inspired sabre rattling over Gibralter, but I think the chances of Spain launching an invasion are remote to say the least.

Xenophon PCDGS · 23 Sep 2013

SS4 said:
I wasn't alive for the Falklands War so could someone tell me if the situation in Gibraltar is similar to the Falklands?

I did not realise that you were so many years younger than me.. :oops:

The Falkland Islands are quite a distance offshore from the Argentinian continental mainland, whereas Gibraltar is actually part of the continent where Spain so is situated. With Gibraltar being situated where it is, try to imagine Llandudno and the Great Orme being owned by Spain and of any attempts by Britain to try to bring it back under British control.

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