My design for Deep Tube Program Stock

Giugiaro · 2 Jun 2013

So, I used part of the information given in this thread to design a train that could be the result of the Deep Tube Program that London Underground is to take on.

It is also one of my arguments to get a place on the London Underground Engineering Apprenticeship if I get a chance to defend my submission.

The drawing doesn't show all the features I want to place in this stock, but an upcoming 3D model will show better what features the consist has.

Check the drawing over here

It's an articulated EMU based on dimensions from 1972/3, 1995/6 and 2009 Stock, adapted for metrical system engineering.
The articulated consist is a type of consist that has shorter carriages with open connection between carriages, semi-supported over a Jakobs bogie [link] or sets of bogie car and suspended car like on Eurotrams [link]

The idea of this tube stock is a bogie and suspended car consist to lower radius offset on curves and door-to-platform automatic extensions, in order to reduce dangerous gaps between train and platform on curved stations. Both bogie and suspended cars will have large doors to maximize passenger boarding rate and through-gangways capable of hold standing passengers.

I'd like to have your appreciation on this. It's the first drawing and the 3D model may look slightly different. I will reduce the black in the cab but keep the lights as they are in the drawing.

Important Note: If someone would care, I want to know how can I protect this idea. After hearing about art thieving throughout DeviantArt, and given that this is my first attempt on designing and engineering a train in 6 years, I want to make sure I have my art and industrial rights secured.

RailUK Forums

anthony263 · 2 Jun 2013

Too be honest that drawing is actually quiete good. The side view kind of reminds me of the class 442's.

Anyway cant you put a tag onto the photo like some have done on flickr?

Nym · 2 Jun 2013

I'd like to discuss some of the dimentions with you and your ideas for boarding / alighting in stations with the articulated design (especially with axle weights being key) and how you look to reduce the centre throw on all curves, especially after the issues with the introduction of the first 'long car' deep level stock. (1973TS)

Giugiaro · 2 Jun 2013

No problem. That is what I'm seeking in order to perfect the concept to the needs of the Underground. Are you going to discuss it in this thread or by PM?

I left my signature in watermark so that the only way to remove it is by remake the drawing. I think it's best for me to start securing my work, though licensing and registration is quite expensive for a personal project.

Peter Mugridge · 2 Jun 2013

The front end doesn't appeal to me, to be honest - but having said that it is a lot better looking than the Siemens contender for the deep tube order, which quite frankly looks like a toilet roll on wheels ( the Hitachi offering for the same order is vastly better looking ).

Your thoughts of shorter articulated carriages is a good one - you're trying to get the entire train into a platform hugging "fuselage" aren't you? I like that idea.

Nym · 3 Jun 2013

You'll undertand I dont want to be openly publishing too much information.
But you might want to examine (for improvment) cab envoroment, harnessing space (Electrical & Electronic), platform and PWay interface, and what each line has as it's own niche...

Peter Mugridge · 3 Jun 2013

Didn't London Underground say that the S Stock will be the last built with a traditional cab, though, and that future builds will be DLR style?

Whether they can get that aspiration past the unions is, of course, another matter altogether!

bangor-toad · 3 Jun 2013

Giugiaro said:
Important Note: If someone would care, I want to know how can I protect this idea. After hearing about art thieving throughout DeviantArt, and given that this is my first attempt on designing and engineering a train in 6 years, I want to make sure I have my art and industrial rights secured.

Hi there,
If you've got your drawing that you want to protect you should assert that it is copyright. To do this just put Copyright YOUR NAME 2013 on the image. It doesn't have to be as an overt watermark across the whole image, it can be simple clear text somewhere at the edge of the image.
I would also make sure that the EXIF data within the image file contains the "Copyright YOUR NAME 2013" text.

It is still possible for someone to steal your work but if you have asserted copyright you have a chance to have it removed from any site the stolen image is hosted on. The EXIF trick is one may miss, even if they edit off the visible text.

For more formal protection you can take out a Registered Design This is the sort of industrial protection I think you're referring to. Do have a read of the linked website as that describes exactly what it is and what you get.
You do have to pay for this though.

Good luck with it all,
Jason

Pumbaa · 3 Jun 2013

Peter Mugridge said:
Didn't London Underground say that the S Stock will be the last built with a traditional cab, though, and that future builds will be DLR style?

Whether they can get that aspiration past the unions is, of course, another matter altogether!

No - Boris said that. TfL quickly rebuked that and said they were not ready to offload all TO's just yet.

Here's a recent article on why not: http://www.boriswatch.co.uk/2013/01/14/driverless-tube-trains-a-hoax-on-the-public/

And another older article: http://www.boriswatch.co.uk/2012/11...-trains-with-cabs-another-boris-promise-gone/

Peter Mugridge · 3 Jun 2013

Thanks; an interesting read.

WhiteJoker · 6 Jun 2013

Don't know if it's valid in the UK, but in the Netherlands you can claim it by printing it, seal it in an envelop and physically mail it to yourself. The date stamp from Royal Mail will dispute claims that you stole it yourself.

Peter Mugridge · 6 Jun 2013

The trouble with that is very few items are franked with a legible date stamp these days - that's if the RM bother to frank them at all.

Giugiaro · 8 Jun 2013

Nym said:
But you might want to examine (for improvment) cab envoroment, harnessing space (Electrical & Electronic), platform and PWay interface, and what each line has as it's own niche...

I can make some suggestions. I was thinking if I could make a movable cab console that could slide from the left to the centre of the cabin. But for that I have to think well how the door is going to be as well as the double wind-shield.

It's better to discuss this via PM. I may as well start modelling to get the articulated consist done for now.

Nym · 8 Jun 2013

Giugiaro said:
I can make some suggestions. I was thinking if I could make a movable cab console that could slide from the left to the centre of the cabin. But for that I have to think well how the door is going to be as well as the double wind-shield.

It's better to discuss this via PM. I may as well start modelling to get the articulated consist done for now.

Given the lengths that have been gone to to seal the consoles of the 2009TS I honestly cannot see how a movable console could be implimented.

I was more getting at the unique nature of each line that is covered under NtFL (New name for DTP).

For example, the Piccadilly Line serves Heathrow and shares track with the SSR, so may need multiple signalling systems.

The same signalling considerations for the Bakerloo Line, north of Queens Park may require ERTMS / ETCS working, rather than overlaping LUL ATP with Network Rail ATP (that is currently done).

Then there's the fact that each of these lines has extended external running, so a top speed of 100km/h would be advantagous, especially if TfL still want to extend the Bakerloo back to Watford Junction again.

Again add in the usual political condiderations and this will end up being very complicated.

Oh, and the tight curves on the picc and bakerloo

Giugiaro · 14 Jun 2013

I started modelling the train on SketchUp.

I guess this image shows a bit what is the idea on the whole.

https://nshqgq.blu.livefilestore.co...rtpqzj/Deep ube Program 2015 Stock.png?psid=1

Giugiaro · 19 Aug 2013

I don't know if the use of the door is still mandatory, as Siemens and Hitachi don't seem to be planning to place them.

Peter Mugridge · 19 Aug 2013

The Hitachi one, I think, does have a door carefully hidden in the vertical black area between the cab windows - at theast the model on display at Railtex this year appeared to indicate that.

As for the Siemens one - I think the whole of the circular area at the front sw2ings inwards to create a doorway, but that was not clear from the model ( though I have to admit I was laughing too much at the appearance of it to really study it closely! )

Class172 · 20 Aug 2013

As anyone got a link so I can see what these other offerings look like in comparison?

Giugiaro · 20 Aug 2013

Hitachi

http://paulbigland.zenfolio.com/p941445613/h5dc72aca#h5dc72aca

Siemens

http://paulbigland.zenfolio.com/p941445613/h5dc72aca#h5dc738ae

TrainBoy98 · 20 Aug 2013

Compared to those, I still prefer Giugiaros one! Cant wait to see more of it and learn about its technical side of things!

Peter Mugridge · 20 Aug 2013

I prefer the Hitachi one to be honest.

I certainly don't like the Siemens toilet roll on wheels!

Class172 · 20 Aug 2013

That offering from Siemens looks utterly diabolical.

Peter Mugridge · 21 Aug 2013

That's why you should never put a cup of tea down a blueprint; the stain can be mistaken for part of the design.

[/tongue, cheek]

D365 · 21 Aug 2013

Peter Mugridge said:
That's why you should never put a cup of tea down a blueprint; the stain can be mistaken for part of the design.

[/tongue, cheek]

I thought that was supposed to be a rice bowl? On the model, I can make out a cab door; perhaps it's a folding rice bowl!

jopsuk · 21 Aug 2013

This picture appears to have a door in the middle of the circular cab front.

Rational Plan · 22 Aug 2013

Pumbaa said:
No - Boris said that. TfL quickly rebuked that and said they were not ready to offload all TO's just yet.

Here's a recent article on why not: http://www.boriswatch.co.uk/2013/01/14/driverless-tube-trains-a-hoax-on-the-public/

And another older article: http://www.boriswatch.co.uk/2012/11...-trains-with-cabs-another-boris-promise-gone/

Oops it turns out they were sort of wrong. according to Modern Rail. The new deep tube trains will have no driver cab, but will have DLR style train captains.

D365 · 22 Aug 2013

jopsuk said:
This picture appears to have a door in the middle of the circular cab front.

Thanks for the picture, that does appear to be a cab door in the train front. Tell you what, those tiny windows could give the 83/95/96 stocks a run for their money! Would prefer one of the others on the Bakerloo/deep lines, thank you.

southern442 · 3 Oct 2013

DAB_Move said:
Thanks for the picture, that does appear to be a cab door in the train front. Tell you what, those tiny windows could give the 83/95/96 stocks a run for their money! Would prefer one of the others on the Bakerloo/deep lines, thank you.

Definitely, I think that all new tube stock should have windows like on the 1992 trains.

Giugiaro · 10 Dec 2013

Having a quick look at the cab with two Deep Tube stock alongside.

I guess it is still possible to make an instrument panel that can slide to the centre of the cab.

Nym · 10 Dec 2013

Giugiaro said:
Having a quick look at the cab with two Deep Tube stock alongside.

I guess it is still possible to make an instrument panel that can slide to the centre of the cab.

The design on the left will result in a large 'black zone' where the driver will not be able to observe the PTI on offside platforms on entry, and offside wayside signals and boards. This will be worse on this than on the 09TS and this is already at an unnaceptable level IMO.

You'd need the M Door to follow the contours so that the pillar space from the driver and secondman position that is visible is reduced to a minimum, but you're still risking the PTI observation areas.

My design for Deep Tube Program Stock

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