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Train Delay...staff wise

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johntea

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On a heavily delayed train service the other evening it got me thinking...what do the staff receive in terms of 'compensation' (Driver / Train Guard / Catering Staff).

Do they get a few extra quid on their pay for the month? Some time off in their future rota? Some rail vouchers? (:lol:)
 
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Stigy

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On a heavily delayed train service the other evening it got me thinking...what do the staff receive in terms of 'compensation' (Driver / Train Guard / Catering Staff).

Do they get a few extra quid on their pay for the month? Some time off in their future rota? Some rail vouchers? (:lol:)
....TOIL I'd imagine...:roll:
 

Alistair G.

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Normally overtime I believe, but how about the poor signaller that then has to shuffle the pack for sometimes hours after the delayed train!. No compensation, no overtime, just get on with it!. Still, at least we get to go home at the end of our booked shift on time I guess, regardless of how bad the place is falling apart!..... Unless we're on the delayed train home!!
 

Tomnick

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Normally overtime I believe, but how about the poor signaller that then has to shuffle the pack for sometimes hours after the delayed train!. No compensation, no overtime, just get on with it!. Still, at least we get to go home at the end of our booked shift on time I guess, regardless of how bad the place is falling apart!..... Unless we're on the delayed train home!!
...unless you're not in a 24/7 box! We're not too bad in that respect (five night shifts, Mon-Fri, each week), but it's not uncommon for the extra hour to be enforced if the last one on a Saturday or Sunday is late, or there's a possession to be taken behind it...or both!
 

A-driver

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Most companies have a certain amount of unpaid overtime for such instances built into contracts. I believe southern are still 30mins extra 'free', at FCC the first 15mins is un paid. After that it depends really. If I was 20 mins late I wouldn't bother claiming for the 5mins-it just winds the foreman up filling in new time sheets for the sake of 5mins pay and when I am spare they often let me go home 2-3 hours early if there is nothing to do so its swings and roundabouts. If I was significantly delayed, say 30mins+, then I would claim the extra. They basically pay us the hourly rate extra.

I don't think any TOCs offer leave in lieu but may be wrong. Its far easier for them to just pay overtime than try to portion leave (if you are delayed by an hour you can't really ask to leave an hour early the following day as that may be in the middle of a journey).

This is for delays whilst driving. They can't force you to work your last train(s) if previous delays have taken you over your hours. Obviously if your last train is your next train home then its in your best interest but if say your last bit is kings x-Cambridge and back and you are based at kings x then you can refuse to work that trip if it will take you over your hours.
 

dk1

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Every minute counts as overtime for Greater Anglia traincrew unless your job is padded.
 

RJ

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When I worked as crew on the trains, there was no requirement to do any paperwork for overtime - it was just a case of signing off via the automated telephone line when returning to the booking on point. Overtime was paid by the minute.

If stranded away from the home depot with no way to get home, control would either sort a taxi or pay for a room at a local hotel. If this affected the turn the following day, we'd get the day off at full pay.

That said, some crew members had a habit of disappearing off home several hours early when the service went up the wall...!
 

Mutant Lemming

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Sometimes a delayed train at the start or the middle of a shift can actually be advantageous with regards to being turned short or the train reformed and taken off early.
 

Flamingo

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FGW, we get paid from when we book on to when we book off. If your train is late within your hours, you deal with it.

The only real implications for other services is if the late running train impacts on the drivers (and less so the guards) break, which is mandatory, or of the late finish brings one within 12 hours of the following days shift, as we must have a 12 hour gap.
 

SkinnyDave

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FGW, we get paid from when we book on to when we book off. If your train is late within your hours, you deal with it.

The only real implications for other services is if the late running train impacts on the drivers (and less so the guards) break, which is mandatory, or of the late finish brings one within 12 hours of the following days shift, as we must have a 12 hour gap.

Hi,

What happens in this situation for the next days shift?
Does the driver start later with the spare starting the shift?
 

SkinnyDave

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Thanks..

It would be interesting as to how the spare situation works ie how many crew are rostered spare on a given day and how often do they get used etc
 

Flamingo

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Thanks..

It would be interesting as to how the spare situation works ie how many crew are rostered spare on a given day and how often do they get used etc

Varies according to holiday season, sick leave, and lots of other variables. Usually the early trains have a spare cover somewhere across the system (but may not be every depot) , simply to avoid the cost / hassle of having to cancel an early commuter train.
 

Helvellyn

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An hours extra at SWT for us Guards (paid) - after that it's down to our goodwill to work over that, although if away from Depot you're not really going to get home earlier. Also, need to ensure that you get your minimum PNB in.
 

A-driver

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Thanks..

It would be interesting as to how the spare situation works ie how many crew are rostered spare on a given day and how often do they get used etc

It is done by an establishment calculator which is worked out and agreed by managment and unions.

Basically they work out how many people they need to cover each diagram and most places have an establishment of around 1.5/1.6. This means that for every booked diagram at that depot you have 1.6 men on duty that day. Normally there is an agreement that anyone spare may have their booking on/off times altered by around 2hours either way with about 48 hours notice. After that a spare driver can refuse to work outside their hours.

The 1.5/1.6 or whatever the figure is is designed to ensure basic cover if all work for annual leave, training courses, assessments, sick leave, short term restricted drivers etc and is designed to eliminate the need for rest day work.

You tend to find in reality you can have a handful of people sitting spare all day in January-march and then April-December no spares and people in working rest days to cover the work. Obviously companies now like to have as few spares as possible as they don't like the thought of paying someone to sit in the messroom drinking tea for 9hours.

Most depots will also have a booked standby turn during the day which is a diagram with nothing on to ensure there is someone about on the day should anyone get stuck on the way into work/go sick last minute/get caught in disruption etc.
 

sarahj

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Well, an example, I was cover (the booked turn) on Sat and I worked 2 hove shuttles and then went to Ore and back (from Brighton). The Ore and back was covering an Eastbourne duty.

If you do get overtime, they can only pay you up to max of 12 hours. Sometimes if you end up being at work for more than 12, they will give you the extra another day, but even sometimes that does not work.

eg: one cold night I was working a late turn which involves the 01.00 Vic to Brighton. That night due to engineering work, it was due to run to three bridges where a bus would take the passengers and a taxi me and the driver. Due to network rail issues, we got stuck at Redhill. I arranged for the buses waiting at Three Bridges to come up to Redhill to take the passengers on to Gatwick and Brighton, we were then asked to run the train back to Victoria. When we got there, there was not enough hours left on the drivers shift to work it back down, so we took a taxi back to Brighton. He then got lost. I got back to Brighton at 05.50. (13 hours at work) Since i was due to start at 16.50 later that day, I was unable to start work unitl 17.50. I then got caught in other delays, which meant i worked 11 hours that night, so I was given more overtime, which was added to the next day etc etc.
 

TheEdge

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Most depots will also have a booked standby turn during the day which is a diagram with nothing on to ensure there is someone about on the day should anyone get stuck on the way into work/go sick last minute/get caught in disruption etc.

A few weeks ago I spent 4 days 'working' that turn. Climbing the walls...
 

313103

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One is not permitted to work beyond 12 hours, however it can happen and special dispensation is made to the authorities. The likely causes are major disruption where trains cannot be moved and traincrew have to stay with train.

As for the limit being 12 hours and staff being told we will pay you the extra on the next day is a wrong, the companies should not be trying to cover up disruption delays over 12 hours. Train companies will not get into trouble for falling foul of Hidden, especially if the problem cannot be resolved quickly. May not look nice on their PIE charts, but I had rather it showed up on there rather then it being masked by paying members of staff additional on there next days duty, which can also be construed as fraud.
 

A-driver

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One is not permitted to work beyond 12 hours, however it can happen and special dispensation is made to the authorities. The likely causes are major disruption where trains cannot be moved and traincrew have to stay with train.

As for the limit being 12 hours and staff being told we will pay you the extra on the next day is a wrong, the companies should not be trying to cover up disruption delays over 12 hours. Train companies will not get into trouble for falling foul of Hidden, especially if the problem cannot be resolved quickly. May not look nice on their PIE charts, but I had rather it showed up on there rather then it being masked by paying members of staff additional on there next days duty, which can also be construed as fraud.

Hidden requirements arnt law. Companies don't have to stick to them. They are guidelines which TOCs would be very foolish not to abide by.

There isn't a problem with exceeding 12hours I'm exceptional circumstances-being stranded in snow etc. but what wouldn't be acceptable is for them to expect you to come back after being stranded for 11 hours and then finish the rest of your turn by starting out on a new 3 hour round trip.
 

Be3G

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I just thought I'd pop this small titbit of info in as it's not something everyone realises: by law, people are entitled to an 11-hour gap between successive work shifts. It's interesting that TOCs seem to up that to 12.
 

A-driver

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I just thought I'd pop this small titbit of info in as it's not something everyone realises: by law, people are entitled to an 11-hour gap between successive work shifts. It's interesting that TOCs seem to up that to 12.

The 12hour rule was brought in as part of the hidden recommendations after the clapham crash. As I say, its not law but I don't know any companies who don't go by it-they would be stupid not to. 12 hours between shifts, 12 hours max at work, 13 consecutive days worked max tend to be the main points enforced. I know someone who accidentally worked 15 days on a row and neither him or the foreman noticed and the company took it very seriously.

I didn't know that legally employees are entitled to 11hours off. I'm sure there are many who don't get that!
 

sarahj

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I know that when I worked in a hotel many moons ago, 11 hours between shifts was a dream, some nights I went home at 2am and was back in for 07.30.
 

High Dyke

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From a signalling point of view some shifts do have an 8 hour turn-round. The agreement is part of a rostered turn, but only for resident signallers when a minimum 8 hours rest between shifts once at weekends on Saturday into Sunday for shift change over purposes only. The irony is that it is acceptable when part of the base roster, but if a signaller wants to cover a saturday turn as part of overtime, and then pick up a shift the following morning that only has 8 hours rest - they are not offered the turn as it doesn't allow the usual 12 hours rest.
 

Tomnick

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They've offered me a nice 0630 - 0900 Sunday turn (not on the base roster) following my usual 1400 - 2200 Saturday turn in the past - so our lot clearly consider it acceptable!
 
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