WCML 158s around 2000-2003???

hairyhandedfool · 29 Jun 2013

Does anybody know whether any 158s used or crossed the West Coast Mainline around 2000-2003? I'm particularly interested in the stretch from Warrington to Carlisle.

I know the franchise map was somewhat different and that Manchester and Liverpool saw 158s on a regular basis, but is there anywhere else that did back then?

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LNW-GW Joint · 29 Jun 2013

Manchester-Glasgow/Edinburgh and Blackpool-Portsmouth are the VXC 158 services I remember.
The former went over to Voyagers around 2000 and the Portsmouths were axed completely at around the same time.

TheWalrus · 29 Jun 2013

The Portsmouths went 2004 I think. Anyone know why?

Manchester77 · 29 Jun 2013

Most probably due to the operation princess debacle and the SRA cutting VXCs services to make the core routes more reliable

TheWalrus · 29 Jun 2013

Were the former XC routes viable?

ash39 · 29 Jun 2013

Yes, at this time transpenninexpress ran the north east-blackpool north services which called at Preston. Nearly always a maroon and gold 158 but as they were part of northern spirit at the time, other stock could turn up

Eagle · 29 Jun 2013

Manchester/Preston to Barrow/Windermere used to be 158s before the 185s were introduced.

hairyhandedfool · 29 Jun 2013

LNW-GW Joint said:
Manchester-Glasgow/Edinburgh and Blackpool-Portsmouth are the VXC 158 services I remember.
The former went over to Voyagers around 2000 and the Portsmouths were axed completely at around the same time.

I must admit I thought they handed back the 158s a year or two before then.

ash39 said:
Yes, at this time transpenninexpress ran the north east-blackpool north services which called at Preston. Nearly always a maroon and gold 158 but as they were part of northern spirit at the time, other stock could turn up

Ah, of course, thanks for that.

Eagle said:
Manchester/Preston to Barrow/Windermere used to be 158s before the 185s were introduced.

Interesting, I couldn't find any pictures of them on Google in the Lancaster/Oxenholme area (maybe I was looking for the wrong thing), it brought up 153s and 156s which caused me to doubt the 158s were there.

Eagle · 29 Jun 2013

hairyhandedfool said:
I must admit I thought they handed back the 158s a year or two before then.

They were still being used as late as 2002, before the Voyager rollout was complete. Mainly confined to the infrequent services like Portsmouth to Blackpool/Liverpool and Swindon to Birmingham.

They kept the debranded Regional Railways livery the whole time under Virgin.

hairyhandedfool · 29 Jun 2013

Eagle said:
They were still being used as late as 2002, before the Voyager rollout was complete. Mainly confined to the infrequent services like Portsmouth to Blackpool/Liverpool and Swindon to Birmingham....

Thanks for that.

Eagle said:
....They kept the debranded Regional Railways livery the whole time under Virgin.

Yes, they had 158747-158751 as I recall.

PHILIPE · 29 Jun 2013

Eagle said:
They were still being used as late as 2002, before the Voyager rollout was complete. Mainly confined to the infrequent services like Portsmouth to Blackpool/Liverpool and Swindon to Birmingham.

They kept the debranded Regional Railways livery the whole time under Virgin.

Portsmouths were never 158s. Pre Voyager they ran to and Portsmouth & Southsea Low Level Platforms worked by 47s. There were facilities to run round there. This has already been discussed at great length on this Forum quite recently.

TheWalrus · 29 Jun 2013

Eagle said:
hairyhandedfool said:

I must admit I thought they handed back the 158s a year or two before then.

Click to expand...

They were still being used as late as 2002, before the Voyager rollout was complete. Mainly confined to the infrequent services like Portsmouth to Blackpool/Liverpool and Swindon to Birmingham.

They kept the debranded Regional Railways livery the whole time under Virgin.

yeah but most of the Swindon-Birminghams only went as far as Cheltenham!

PHILIPE · 29 Jun 2013

Earlier about 200X Northern Rail operated a daily 159 Leeds to Glasgow via S&C and Beattock service and return but this was stopped by the SRA (I think at the time) due to the fact that in the event of failure the knock on effect could be disastrous as there would be no suitable unit for miles around to provide assistance or driver with route knowledge at all.

dk1 · 29 Jun 2013

PHILIPE said:
Earlier about 200X Northern Rail operated a daily 159 Leeds to Glasgow via S&C and Beattock service and return but this was stopped by the SRA (I think at the time) due to the fact that in the event of failure the knock on effect could be disastrous as there would be no suitable unit for miles around to provide assistance or driver with route knowledge at all.

I loved that. Like a 185 is easy to rescue when it's got a Freightliner behind or a Pendo nearby :roll:

CJ · 29 Jun 2013

Eagle said:
Manchester/Preston to Barrow/Windermere used to be 158s before the 185s were introduced.

Before 185s, they were 175s (when TPE were sharing them with ATW) and before that it was 158s and 156s when that route was still under First North Western.

Invincibles · 29 Jun 2013

PHILIPE said:
Portsmouths were never 158s. Pre Voyager they ran to and Portsmouth & Southsea Low Level Platforms worked by 47s. There were facilities to run round there. This has already been discussed at great length on this Forum quite recently.

Having done Fratton to Manchester (?) on a 158 in 2001 (may have been 2, PNE won 1-0 with a header from our short winger, possibly the only header he has ever scored) I think they were. Indeed that is what the suggestion in the timetable was. The southbound trip was on the normal loco and coaches to Winchester where we changed on to a slammer.

After evening games in Preston I used to take the 2210 to Manchester, which split off an Edinburgh - Birmingham train. That was a pair of 158s to Preston. Though of course that is not related to the Portsmouth train. Northbound trains to get me to the games were 156s destined to Barrow as a rule. Then of course came the 175s before the 185s.

Cherry_Picker · 30 Jun 2013

When did the Liverpool - Stansted's switch from 158s to 170s? I think it was quite soon after the 170s were put into service, so were there any still floating about as late as 2003?

rebmcr · 30 Jun 2013

Nobody's mentioned Manchester-South Wales? Were they not 158s back then?

43167 · 30 Jun 2013

PHILIPE said:
Portsmouths were never 158s. Pre Voyager they ran to and Portsmouth & Southsea Low Level Platforms worked by 47s. There were facilities to run round there. This has already been discussed at great length on this Forum quite recently.

The Blackpool-Pompey's were 158's to start with. When it went to 47's, it was in top & tail mode.

317666 · 30 Jun 2013

Cherry_Picker said:
When did the Liverpool - Stansted's switch from 158s to 170s? I think it was quite soon after the 170s were put into service, so were there any still floating about as late as 2003?

I think it was after the 170s and the 'CityLink' branding was introduced, although I seem to remember that didn't stop 158s or even the odd 156 from turning up sometimes!

driver9000 · 30 Jun 2013

PHILIPE said:
Earlier about 200X Northern Rail operated a daily 159 Leeds to Glasgow via S&C and Beattock service and return but this was stopped by the SRA (I think at the time) due to the fact that in the event of failure the knock on effect could be disastrous as there would be no suitable unit for miles around to provide assistance or driver with route knowledge at all.

That was operated by Northern Spirit using 158s. I think the service ended in 2001/2002.

FNW also used 158s on the Blackpool North-Liverpool Lime Street service. I think this service changed to 150/156 operation when Northern took over and concentrated 158s on the eastern side.

cjmillsnun · 30 Jun 2013

PHILIPE said:
Portsmouths were never 158s. Pre Voyager they ran to and Portsmouth & Southsea Low Level Platforms worked by 47s. There were facilities to run round there. This has already been discussed at great length on this Forum quite recently.

I've been on an XC 158 boarding at Portsmouth Harbour just after Virgin took over the franchise from BR. So yes they did go to Portsmouth.

Eagle · 30 Jun 2013

driver9000 said:
That was operated by Northern Spirit using 158s. I think the service ended in 2001/2002.

Lasted till 2004 (as ATN). I think it was done for by the WCML upgrade works.

The Planner · 30 Jun 2013

cjmillsnun said:
I've been on an XC 158 boarding at Portsmouth Harbour just after Virgin took over the franchise from BR. So yes they did go to Portsmouth.

Was thinking I was going senile for a moment as well, as I am sure I have done an Oxford - New St trip on a 158 many moons ago.

43074 · 30 Jun 2013

Cherry_Picker said:
When did the Liverpool - Stansted's switch from 158s to 170s? I think it was quite soon after the 170s were put into service, so were there any still floating about as late as 2003?

There were still 158s on the route until the XC takeover when the 158s went to East Midlands Trains, and I am sure that when the ex TPX 158s arrived at Central Trains in 2007, they used more 158s on the route. The same goes for Nottingham to Cardiff/Birmingham as well.

317666 said:
I think it was after the 170s and the 'CityLink' branding was introduced, although I seem to remember that didn't stop 158s or even the odd 156 from turning up sometimes!

'CityLink' was Central Trains version of 'Alphaline' - it only denoted that there was air conditioning, seat reservations avaliable and light refreshments on board. They did try to keep their 170s and 158s on Nottingham to Cardiff, Liverpool to Norwich and Birmingham to Stansted services, whilst 350s were used on CityLink services between Birmingham and Liverpool.

Eagle said:
Lasted till 2004 (as ATN). I think it was done for by the WCML upgrade works.

... and Virgin didn't want the two car 158s failing on the 2-track WCML North of Carlisle thus causing delay.

rebmcr said:
Nobody's mentioned Manchester-South Wales? Were they not 158s back then?

There was a 158 on this service on Monday, and there are still 1 or 2 services on the route booked for 158s, although you're right it is rarer than it was.

Stonesourscotty · 30 Jun 2013

175s also worked the Blackpool-Liverpool route quite regularly in the noughties although it was mainly the two car units.

Bevan Price · 30 Jun 2013

Stonesourscotty said:
175s also worked the Blackpool-Liverpool route quite regularly in the noughties although it was mainly the two car units.

I think you mean Blackpool - Manchester. I live in St. Helens and as far as I know, Class 175 has never been closer than Earlestown.

Pre-Voyagers, Class 158 worked an Edinburgh - Liverpool / Liverpool - Portsmouth diagram for Virgin (one per day each way). Class 158 has a daily diagram through Warrington Bank Quay on the Manchester - North Wales sevices; as noted elsewhere, they disappeared from Liverpool - Preston / Blackpool (& Manchester Airport) services when they were sent to cover Yorkshire area services a few years ago.

At one time, they worked some Manchester - Barrow / Blackpool services, until replaced by Class 175 and then by Class 185.

Blindtraveler · 30 Jun 2013

was there much done internally to the 158s by VT?

Manchester77 · 30 Jun 2013

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:VT_Brel_express_interior_q.png

Judging by this image no but I can remember what RR's moquette design was

edwin_m · 1 Jul 2013

The 158s originally came out with a darkish grey moquette with pairs of overlapping spots in blue and light grey. So seems to have been changed on that photo.

WCML 158s around 2000-2003???

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