New Listed Signal Boxes

dysonsphere · 26 Jul 2013

Intresting collection of signal boxes have just being listed but I wonder how easy public access will be after Network Rail have finished with them, also does it include the contents.

Twenty-six of the UK's "rarest" railway signal boxes have been granted Grade II listed status by the Department for Culture, Media and Sport.

Culture minister Ed Vaizey said interest in trains and railways was one of the country's "most endearing and enduring national preoccupations".

The joint venture, between English Heritage and Network Rail, is part of a 30-year plan to modernise the railways.

A number of mechanical boxes are being replaced by regional operating centres.

"These are very special buildings, at one time a familiar sight on our railway system," said English Heritage's senior investigator John Minnis.

The preservation of 26 "highly distinctive" signal boxes would provide a "window into how railways were operated in the past," he added.

Hebden Bridge signal box, which was built in 1891, will be preserved as it has a "time warp quality" and has retained its original 1914 signage.

English Heritage said some of the listed buildings could be "rejuvenated" as cafes or museums, such as the 1923 signal box in Totnes, Devon.

In the 1940s there were more than 10,000 signal boxes in the UK. Now fewer than 500 mechanical signal boxes are still in use, according to Network Rail.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-23451290

PS Hope I finally have the posting method correct.

RailUK Forums

trentside · 26 Jul 2013

The Guardian provides the full list that have been listed;

NORTH

Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire

Hensall, North Yorkshire

WEST

Bournemouth West Junction, Dorset

Lostwithiel, Cornwall

Marsh Brook, Shropshire

Par, Cornwall

Totnes, Devon

EAST

Brundall, Norfolk

Bury St Edmunds Yard, Suffolk

Downham Market, Norfolk

Skegness, Lincolnshire

Thetford, Norfolk

Wainfleet, Lincolnshire

Wymondham South Junction, Norfolk

SOUTH

Aylesford, Kent

Canterbury East, Kent

Cuxton, Kent

Eastbourne, East Sussex

Grain Crossing, Kent

Littlehampton, West Sussex

Liverpool Street, London (owned by London Underground Ltd)

Maidstone West, Kent

Rye, East Sussex

Shepherdswell, Kent

Snodland, Kent

Wateringbury, Kent

There have recently been proposals for one of the listed signal boxes in Lincoln (East Holmes) to move it off Network Rail property and convert it into a cafe or similar development. At least it has been given a lick of paint recently, as I thought NR were just leaving it to rot away!

Pleased to see Skegness and Wainfleet on the list too, both nice boxes.

western Champion · 26 Jul 2013

A pity Dawlish box couldn't have survived, it was grade II listed and of a unique design AFAIK, now sadly demolished. RIP

http://antony-christie.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/the-demolition-of-dawlish-signalbox-3rd.html

DaveHarries · 26 Jul 2013

Very glad to see these boxes have been listed. It would surprise me if Shrewsbury (Severn Bridge Jcn) hasn't been listed. Anyone know?

Dave

John Webb · 26 Jul 2013

The list above is only of those boxes which have just been listed. When EH and NR were looking at all 800 or so boxes last year, the list published by EH showed a number of boxes were already listed. (I think Shrewsbury Seven Bridge is actually Grade 1.) So there are many more boxes already listed.

But as dysonsphere says, public access may not be easy. There are several problems I can see:
1. Who will actually keep them maintained?
2. To what degree will public access be possible?
3. Besides the lever frame, will the other signalling instruments be left? (At St Albans South the reinstatement of block instruments indicators etc. was one of our biggest tasks, as BR had stripped the box out after closure in 1979.)
4. If to ensure a solution to items 1 and 2 above the box needs to be moved from the present location, how (and by whom) is that going to be done?

There are already a few boxes preserved where they worked - St Albans South and Cromer, for example, mainly because they could be given public access without entering NR operating areas.

And of course there are numerous boxes preserved at the various heritage railways, museums and the like.

GatwickDepress · 26 Jul 2013

Are all the boxes not listed for preservation going to be destroyed, or are some going to be retained for emergency use/converted into extra storage or for staff use?

Might be worth nipping along the Coastway to take some pictures of the remaining ones in operation...

Glad that Eastbourne is being preserved, although I swear it was listed a while back too. It's an absolutely beautiful piece of architecture, a immense contrast to the hideous multi-storey car park behind it. With suitable fencing along the lineside, it could be quite easily accessible.

sarahj · 26 Jul 2013

The sad one was the box from Barnham. It was removed and placed into a park. Within a month someone had set it on fire.

I like the box at Pullbrough.

YorkshireBear · 26 Jul 2013

Keighley west junction box is grade listed. Look at the state that is in. This is not necessarily good news.

Cheds · 26 Jul 2013

So what happens to those boxes which are not listed? Are they destroyed or sold or sold in situ?

I'm aware that the odd converted box survives as a holiday home, though these may well be when the entire line has closed.

Cheers

AlexS · 26 Jul 2013

Generally speaking unless someone has bought the box off NR, generally for removal, it's destroyed immediately or shortly after closure, ostensibly to prevent vandalism near the railway.

yorksrob · 26 Jul 2013

Canterbury East rightly appears on the list (I'd hope West is already listed otherwise it would be a travesty).

I hope the timber station building at Pluckley is as well.

Recently went past Queens Town Road Battersea and was sad to see that its box had finally succumbed.

30907 · 26 Jul 2013

John Webb said:
2. To what degree will public access be possible?

Strictly, public access isn't implied by listing, though it's usually a condition of Heritage grant-aid and similar. I hope the interiors are listed not just the exteriors.

John Webb · 26 Jul 2013

30907 said:
Strictly, public access isn't implied by listing, though it's usually a condition of Heritage grant-aid and similar. I hope the interiors are listed not just the exteriors.

I appreciate that, but if the boxes are to remain in reasonable condition each one, once preserved, will need to be maintained. That implies support from the local community as well as input from EH and NR - the public bodies are not, I think, necessarily going to be able to maintain all the boxes all the time due to time and financial considerations.

Grade 2 listing doesn't necessarily include the internal fixings, although at St Albans South the lever frame was left in situ, mostly, I suspect, because it couldn't be removed without taking the box apart.

ushawk · 26 Jul 2013

GatwickDepress said:
Are all the boxes not listed for preservation going to be destroyed, or are some going to be retained for emergency use/converted into extra storage or for staff use?

Might be worth nipping along the Coastway to take some pictures of the remaining ones in operation...

Glad that Eastbourne is being preserved, although I swear it was listed a while back too. It's an absolutely beautiful piece of architecture, a immense contrast to the hideous multi-storey car park behind it. With suitable fencing along the lineside, it could be quite easily accessible.

East Coastway boxes are earmarked for closure, except Eastbourne now of course. Resignalling is completed around November so boxes will probably be demolished shortly after.

No idea what the other listed boxes are, I know people in Polegate were campaigning to get the box there listed so it wouldnt be demolished, but it seems that is not happening.

Welshman · 26 Jul 2013

John Webb said:
I appreciate that, but if the boxes are to remain in reasonable condition each one, once preserved, will need to be maintained. That implies support from the local community as well as input from EH and NR - the public bodies are not, I think, necessarily going to be able to maintain all the boxes all the time due to time and financial considerations.

This is a very good point. Rhyl No.2 signalbox has been Grade II listed since 1990.
Apart from its windows being boarded-up, there appears to have been no maintenance on it whatsoever. Greenery is now encroaching on the eastern side which must be having a detrimental affect on the brickwork, and I afraid to say it's becoming a bit of an eyesore.

YorkshireBear · 26 Jul 2013

John Webb said:
I appreciate that, but if the boxes are to remain in reasonable condition each one, once preserved, will need to be maintained. That implies support from the local community as well as input from EH and NR - the public bodies are not, I think, necessarily going to be able to maintain all the boxes all the time due to time and financial considerations.

Grade 2 listing doesn't necessarily include the internal fixings, although at St Albans South the lever frame was left in situ, mostly, I suspect, because it couldn't be removed without taking the box apart.

And that isnt always possible. I refer again back to keighley west. Communities havent always got the capability.

John Webb · 27 Jul 2013

YorkshireBear said:
And that isnt always possible. I refer again back to keighley west. Communities havent always got the capability.

That's what concerns me about listing these extra boxes when some of those already listed but out of use are not being looked after as it is. There's no point in listing a box for it's preservation if it ends up on the 'Buildings at Risk' register of EH because no one then looks after it.

Re Keighley West - picture from 2 years ago (click on picture for full-size original):
Disused Signal Box

© Copyright Stephen Armstrong and
licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.
I'm not certain why something couldn't be done - it's clear of tracks as far as I can see, which is the main consideration.

Darren R · 27 Jul 2013

And of course it's not just the problem of looking after them once they are closed. Hebden Bridge's one-time neighbour at Sowerby Bridge West was destroyed in an arson attack in 1984 while the box was still operational. Can't imagine Hebden Bridge box lasting long after closure!

At the risk of turning this thread into a wish-list of boxes we'd like to see perserved, I am a little surprised Milner Royd Junction - a little way to the east of Hebden Bridge - hasn't made it on to the list. A Smith & Yardley brick-built box dating from 1878 which still retains its origninal Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway wooden block instruments, surely this qualifies as being historic? There can't be many Smith & Yardley boxes left by now.

Xenophon PCDGS · 28 Jul 2013

I am pleased that Hebden Bridge box was listed as this will complement the railway station with all its Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway boards and signs.

NSEFAN · 28 Jul 2013

I do hope one of the 1930s Southern Railway boxes gets preserved at some point, such as at Woking, Richmond or Horsham.

Lankyline · 28 Jul 2013

And not a single one in the North West of England, considering all the electrification work planned, you would have thought there was one worth listing !

Ploughman · 28 Jul 2013

Lankyline said:
And not a single one in the North West of England, considering all the electrification work planned, you would have thought there was one worth listing !

Are you just looking at the 26 listed on the news release or at the 119 results from searching the English Heritage website?

http://list.english-heritage.org.uk/results.aspx

Lankyline · 29 Jul 2013

Yes just the news release ones, had a quick look at the heritage link and only found Carnforth signal box listed, the hertiage site isn't exactly user friendly !

AndyPJG · 29 Jul 2013

NSEFAN said:
I do hope one of the 1930s Southern Railway boxes gets preserved at some point, such as at Woking, Richmond or Horsham.

Woking (1937) has been Grade II listed for some time, and its Westinghouse L frame is intact.

See http://www.wbsframe.mste.co.uk/public/Woking.html

Ploughman · 29 Jul 2013

Lankyline said:
Yes just the news release ones, had a quick look at the heritage link and only found Carnforth signal box listed, the hertiage site isn't exactly user friendly !

I think Parbold and one near Lancaster are also included

SussexSpotter · 30 Jul 2013

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