Drax Power Station and rail deliveries of coal and biomass

Topgun333 · 3 Aug 2013

Drax in Yorkshire is the largest power station in the UK and currently burns about 30,000 tonnes of coal a week as well as an increasing amount of biomass, all of which is delivered by rail from ports such as Hunterston, Tyne Dock, Hull and Immingham. About 20 trains a day unload their hoppers at Drax. The increase in biomass which is less calorific and less dense than coal has seen Drax purchase 200 70t hoppers recently also.

GBRf handle lots of the haulage work and I think DB are involved also.

My question is would it make sense for Drax to operate its own coal and biomass rail operations? I'd guess they would need in excess of 20 heavy diesels as well as the hoppers. Any ideas?

RailUK Forums

sprinterguy · 3 Aug 2013

That sounds very similar to National Power's strategy in the mid nineties: They had built six (later intended to be twelve) attractively liveried class 59s and a number of matching JNA high capacity coal hopper rakes to run between Drax and nearby collieries (Principally Gascoigne Wood). It wasn't long before EWS took over this small operation and reallocated the locos and rolling stock to other flows, which perhaps suggests the probable answer to this query: In more recent times, Fastline Freight set out to capture quite specific trainload coal flows, but have since been absorbed into the larger GBRf operation (I think).

It would seem that small scale operators, dedicated to a limited number of principal flows, perform poorly when compared to the economies of scale offered by a national freight haulier.

38Cto15E · 3 Aug 2013

Is there any waste (flyash) from power stations nowadays?
I remember in the 70s there used to be several trains a day taking flyash from Ratcliffe PS to Fletton near Peterborough where I think the flyash filled in the old brickworks excavations.

I would have thought that Drax would have plenty of waste to dispose of.
TIA

Yew · 3 Aug 2013

IIRC, there are some old notional power hoppers near Worksop station, on the right hand side if you're heading towards Sheffield.

sprinterguy · 3 Aug 2013

Gus said:
Is there any waste (flyash) from power stations nowadays?
I remember in the 70s there used to be several trains a day taking flyash from Ratcliffe PS to Fletton near Peterborough where I think the flyash filled in the old brickworks excavations.

I would have thought that Drax would have plenty of waste to dispose of.
TIA

I think I recall that Hope cement works used to have consignments of flyash delivered from Drax when I worked there a couple of years back. It came by road though, rather than rail.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yew said:
IIRC, there are some old notional power hoppers near Worksop station, on the right hand side if you're heading towards Sheffield.

DB Schenker would appear to use at least some of them on aggregates traffic these days - I've seen rakes up at Tunstead quarry (Buxton) recently.

Topgun333 · 3 Aug 2013

Gus said:
Is there any waste (flyash) from power stations nowadays?
I remember in the 70s there used to be several trains a day taking flyash from Ratcliffe PS to Fletton near Peterborough where I think the flyash filled in the old brickworks excavations.

I would have thought that Drax would have plenty of waste to dispose of.
TIA

Gypsum is sold as a by-product of the flue gas desulphurisation process but not sure how much or how it is transported.

matchmaker · 3 Aug 2013

Gus said:
Is there any waste (flyash) from power stations nowadays?
I remember in the 70s there used to be several trains a day taking flyash from Ratcliffe PS to Fletton near Peterborough where I think the flyash filled in the old brickworks excavations.

I would have thought that Drax would have plenty of waste to dispose of.
TIA

Longannet produces over 4000 tonnes of PFA (pulverised fuel ash) per day. It is pumped to settling lagoons and is mainly used for land reclaimation but some is transported from there by road for use in cement, etc. There is as far as I know no rail facility for this.

142094 · 3 Aug 2013

IIRC the fly ash from Drax goes to British Gypsum at Newbiggin on the S + C.

The Planner · 3 Aug 2013

sprinterguy said:
In more recent times, Fastline Freight set out to capture quite specific trainload coal flows, but have since been absorbed into the larger GBRf operation (I think).

Fastline used to have a lot of Daw Mill traffic, paths went to Freightliner I think.

flhh66555 · 3 Aug 2013

The ex National Power Wagons (JNA? unsure TBH) have been re bogied and are now HKA I think. the national power adventure was proven to be a way to reduce costs from the then EWS flow. it reduced EWS prices and Nat Power sold up.

swt_passenger · 3 Aug 2013

Topgun333 said:
Gypsum [...] not sure how much or how it is transported.

There are rail wagons dedicated to Gypsum flows, they are basically top opening ISO containers:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/neil_harvey_railway_photos/6484068551/

142094 · 3 Aug 2013

What I should add is that quite a lot of the fly ash is dumped on site, with only a small proportion going on to be used in the construction/manufacturing industries.

Topgun333 · 4 Aug 2013

142094 said:
What I should add is that quite a lot of the fly ash is dumped on site, with only a small proportion going on to be used in the construction/manufacturing industries.

I believe this is largely correct. As I understand it Drax produces about one million tonnes of PFA annually and about half of that is distributed on to the Barlow ash mound which moves around the north west side of the power station and is landscaped as it goes. The other half is sold on for gypsum and aggregates use.

I'm not sure fly ash is the right term as I think PFA is largely derived from bottom ash that is considered environmentally benign where as fly ash has more nasties in it due to the ammonia treatment to reduce SO2 atmospheric emissions. I think fly ash has to go to sealed landfills but happy to stand corrected on that.

I'd not considered the PFA element when I posted this thread but that might add to any self managed operation that Drax could undertake. I also didn't mention any requirement for a depot to maintain the locos and hoppers although that could be outsourced. I assume Drax intends to hire somebody else to maintain the new biomass hoppers for example. One of the new hoppers is currently on display at the National Rail Museum.

Teaboy1 · 4 Aug 2013

Its quite a complex task to own/operate/run/maintain a fleet and its not a primary core Drax business so they are quite happy to sub it out to those companies who do those thinks.
Drax make electricity, they dont do trains!
Ammonia not used in SO2 scrubbers AFAIK, use limestone slurry that captures the sulpur bit and gets converted into Gypsum, that is then sold to plaster-board people. Precips grab flue gas dust straight out of boiler back end and so the dust is more than likely to be high in sulpur. Bottom ash is just that, ash & clinker, make ideal building blocks and road bases.
Quite what the addition of bios mass ash content does to the chemical make up of ash, I dont know but I would quess it does alter it somewhat ???
Most does indeed end up in Barlow or Gale Common.

Freightmaster · 4 Aug 2013

sprinterguy said:
I think I recall that Hope cement works used to have consignments of flyash delivered from Drax when I worked there a couple of years back. It came by road though, rather than rail...

The Drax to Earles flyash traffic now goes by rail, but uses the same
PCA wagons that form most cement trains from Hope, so to most people,
it would just look like a cement train running to Drax!

A few years ago, there was also a twice-weekly flyash flow from Drax
to Aberthaw, but that ceased running after a year or so.

There were also weekly trainloads of containerised flyash from West Burton
to Tilbury until last year, and more recently, the ash pile was removed from
Didcot power station to Calvert when Didcot closed down.

MARK

michael769 · 4 Aug 2013

Topgun333 said:
I think fly ash has to go to sealed landfills but happy to stand corrected on that.

You are correct. Fly ash is nasty stuff. Some coals contain traces of uranium and thorium and these get concentrated into the fly ash which means that some of it ends up classed as low level nuclear waste.

trainfanatic · 4 Aug 2013

142094 said:
What I should add is that quite a lot of the fly ash is dumped on site, with only a small proportion going on to be used in the construction/manufacturing industries.

As the Engineer responsible for the commissioning of Drax Unit 1 boiler coal firing systems back in the day (1973) saleability of fly ash from and coal (PF - Pulverised Fuel) will largely depend on carbon content. Ash with high carbon content is typically unsellable, but lower carbon valueash usually ends up being used in the manufacture of breeze blocks.

142094 · 8 Aug 2013

trainfanatic said:
As the Engineer responsible for the commissioning of Drax Unit 1 boiler coal firing systems back in the day (1973) saleability of fly ash from and coal (PF - Pulverised Fuel) will largely depend on carbon content. Ash with high carbon content is typically unsellable, but lower carbon valueash usually ends up being used in the manufacture of breeze blocks.

I had a tour around Drax a few years ago, and trying to remember what was said at the time. As you say some of the ash is sold for the construction industry, but due to the vast amounts produced (and quality as you say), it is dumped on site.

matchmaker · 8 Aug 2013

142094 said:
I had a tour around Drax a few years ago, and trying to remember what was said at the time. As you say some of the ash is sold for the construction industry, but due to the vast amounts produced (and quality as you say), it is dumped on site.

Longannet is largely built on reclaimed land made from PFA ash produced by its older brother Kincardine-on-Forth power station!

snowball · 8 Aug 2013

In addition to being used in some sorts of cement, PFA can be used for lightweight embankments, for example when roads are built over weak ground. As relatively fewer roads are being built now than 20 years ago, this usage has probably declined.

cawky22 · 15 Sep 2013

I was in Tyne Dock today and there were at least 15 of the new biomass wagons from what I could see on the middle intermodal siding being worked on by men who were in a van with "Davis" wrote on it . looks like this set of wagons is being prepared for use and it will nearly double the capacity of biomass that an be moved from the Port of Tyne .

ChiefPlanner · 15 Sep 2013

The Plasmore concrete block flows form Heck are partly rail borne , and I believe some of the local flyash is used in the manufactering process ....

Freightmaster · 15 Sep 2013

cawky22 said:
I was in Tyne Dock today and there were at least 15 of the new biomass wagons from what I could see on the middle intermodal siding being worked on by men who were in a van with "Davis" wrote on it . looks like this set of wagons is being prepared for use and it will nearly double the capacity of biomass that an be moved from the Port of Tyne .

The 'high capacity' biomass hoppers you saw entered traffic last Tuesday on a trial basis,
initially in a rake of 14 wagons (70.0698.001-014), which will increase to 21 or more after
the trial is completed.

(there are already two rakes of conventional biomass hoppers in daily operation
between Tyne Dock and Drax)

MARK

SGS · 15 Sep 2013

cawky22 said:
I was in Tyne Dock today and there were at least 15 of the new biomass wagons from what I could see on the middle intermodal siding being worked on by men who were in a van with "Davis" wrote on it . looks like this set of wagons is being prepared for use and it will nearly double the capacity of biomass that an be moved from the Port of Tyne .

They're already out and about, see here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/stuartstransport/9727185918/in/photostream

Regards,

SGS.

cawky22 · 15 Sep 2013

Did not realise they were being used .
Just been on a biomass ship and an important guy told me that the ships are realy going to increase to virtually one a week , he also said that Drax is burning 7000 tonne of biomass PER DAY !!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The new wagons are working the 0335 out of Tyne Dock Tuesdays to Fridays , maybe some one will know the return timings .

Freightmaster · 15 Sep 2013

cawky22 said:
The new wagons are working the 0335 out of Tyne Dock Tuesdays to Fridays , maybe some one will know the return timings .

empties: http://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/R00371/2013-09-20

MARK

142094 · 16 Sep 2013

ChiefPlanner said:
The Plasmore concrete block flows form Heck are partly rail borne , and I believe some of the local flyash is used in the manufactering process ....

Can't remember seeing anything other than the Plasmore flat wagons there so I guess the inbound bulk must go by road.

ChiefPlanner · 16 Sep 2013

142094 said:
Can't remember seeing anything other than the Plasmore flat wagons there so I guess the inbound bulk must go by road.

No doubt it does - but at least the "bricks" go by rail - ever such an easy customer to deal with commercially and operationally....

cawky22 · 13 Oct 2013

Biomass trains will be cancelled for a few days as there was a small fire in the conveyor transfer staion , this is the building where the conveyor comes out of the storage shed then the biomass is dropped onto another conveyor and heads in the opposite direction up to the loading silo , some info here from the local paper:-

http://www.shieldsgazette.com/news/local-news/fire-chief-praises-port-of-tyne-blaze-crews-1-6140481

A FIRE chief has praised his crews handling of the biomass plant fire at the Port of Tyne today.

Group Manager Keith Trotter, of Tyne and Wear Fire and Rescue Service, said: The fire was in a conveyor transfer tower at Port of Tyne. This is used to transfer wood pellet from the main storage facility to the rail loading silo. Access to the seat of the fire was difficult and dangerous.

At the peak of the fire, crews applied six cooling water jets to dampen down the fire. It was a particularly challenging incident and we had to re-assess how we tackled the fire due to the difficult conditions our fire crews faced.

Fire crews, who were mobilised from all over Tyne and Wear, should be praised for their professionalism and swift actions which helped to get the fire under control quickly.

Firefighters will remain on-site for some time to ensure the fire does not re-ignite and we would like to thank the Port of Tyne for their assistance.

Tyne and Wear Fire and Rescue Services Control Room received a call about the incident at the Port of Tyne at 15:02.

At its peak approximately 50 firefighters were in attendance, nine fire appliances, one ariel ladder platform, an operational support unit and an incident command unit.

No one was injured in the incident. The cause of the fire is under investigation.
A FIRE chief has praised his crews handling of the biomass plant fire at the Port of Tyne today.

Group Manager Keith Trotter, of Tyne and Wear Fire and Rescue Service, said: The fire was in a conveyor transfer tower at Port of Tyne. This is used to transfer wood pellet from the main storage facility to the rail loading silo. Access to the seat of the fire was difficult and dangerous.

At the peak of the fire, crews applied six cooling water jets to dampen down the fire. It was a particularly challenging incident and we had to re-assess how we tackled the fire due to the difficult conditions our fire crews faced.

Fire crews, who were mobilised from all over Tyne and Wear, should be praised for their professionalism and swift actions which helped to get the fire under control quickly.

Firefighters will remain on-site for some time to ensure the fire does not re-ignite and we would like to thank the Port of Tyne for their assistance.

Tyne and Wear Fire and Rescue Services Control Room received a call about the incident at the Port of Tyne at 15:02.

At its peak approximately 50 firefighters were in attendance, nine fire appliances, one ariel ladder platform, an operational support unit and an incident command unit.

No one was injured in the incident. The cause of the fire is under investigation.

merlodlliw · 13 Oct 2013

Biomass also produces waste, not as much as coal, but biomass has certain chemicals added to it. Its not like burning pure wood, here at Kronospan in Chirk silo fires are often,of course wood ignites at a lower temp than coal,biomass ignites even lower.

Bob

Drax Power Station and rail deliveries of coal and biomass

Member

RailUK Forums

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member