telstarbox
Established Member
Question for the signallers on here: if the station staff had phoned the signaller, how long would it take for the signal before the platform to change from proceed to danger? Seconds or minutes?
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Railway worker suspended after rescuing disabled woman
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Don't need to do that, just need a stop sent via GSMR / CSR
Where are the controls located for this type of signal to be sent from within the station?
eh?
Platform staff ring signaller? I think you'll find that is the procedure to deal with a safety of the line event
So a radio call or telephone call to be sent?
Platform staff ring signaller, signaller send a cab radio stop message, all trains in area stop
CalderRail
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I don't know about the railways specifically, but in hospitals suspension from duties on full pay is automatic after certain incidents. It was a clause certain unions insisted on years ago - any seriously stressful incident results in a rest period, no questions asked.
What's amusing to me is that these rules are there to protect the staff. I won't go anywhere near the track without the signalman confirming that the lines are blocked. Trains are quick and I don't want to be hit by one. I'm sure 100 years ago management would positively encouraged jumping straight down onto the track. Good job we learn from our mistakes!
TOCDriver
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Platform staff have direct access to their governing signal boxes, usually by walkie talkies. That would be the first course of action before going on the line. The signaller can usually authorise within a matter of seconds
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Unlikely to be radios unless the controlling box is adjacent (it isn't in this case). It's only a phone call though, and the signalman can take immediate action to have trains stopped. It'll take more than a few seconds to get authority to go on the line though - that's not the immediate priority.
TOCDriver
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I can only speak from experience, mate. At man Vic, authorisation takes seconds - I know that from experience
AndyLandy
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Do we know he didn't do that? I've not seen any report on the matter either way. Although I think I saw somewhere that "the train pulled in shortly afterwards", which would suggest that it wasn't stopped...
high camera
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If I had been in the situation I would have been down on the line in an instant once I was sure there was nothing coming. In this case there were station staff present with the knowledge of what to do and presumably they knew the location of the telephone to make the call.
What would have happened if this had been an unmanned station, would members of the public be able to request a stop on the line ?
I think its highly unlikely that mature healthy adults are going to stand there and watch a wheelchair and occupant get flattened by a train.
Many years ago as a rookie cop I got bollocked by the fire brigade for probably saving the life of a drunk pensioner who set fire to his kitchen with a chip pan and then fell asleep. I was in and out of the house with the man in seconds, the brigade didnt arrive until the house was well ablaze.
My point being that sometimes we have to stick our necks out to help others, it will be a sad place to be if all humans stick to the "rules" all of the time.
What would have happened if this had been an unmanned station, would members of the public be able to request a stop on the line ?
I think its highly unlikely that mature healthy adults are going to stand there and watch a wheelchair and occupant get flattened by a train.
Many years ago as a rookie cop I got bollocked by the fire brigade for probably saving the life of a drunk pensioner who set fire to his kitchen with a chip pan and then fell asleep. I was in and out of the house with the man in seconds, the brigade didnt arrive until the house was well ablaze.
My point being that sometimes we have to stick our necks out to help others, it will be a sad place to be if all humans stick to the "rules" all of the time.
TOCDriver
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I agree 100 percent with that. i would have done the same. Sometime, you have to stick two fingers up at rules and ruddy regulations
Yes, but there are a lot of people for whom following the rules is just how they are. No ability to think outside the box.
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Probably more focused on the pending shopping trip?
That's fair enough, and it's a more realistic prospect if nothing's signalled into the platform at the time! If there are trains approaching under clear signals though, you'll not get authority until the signalman's sure that signal protection has been provided (including that any approaching trains have come to a stand or will receive the correct sequence to the protecting signal). That is, of course, a necessarily convoluted process than the initial emergency call to stop the job - which doesn't, by itself, guarantee that nothing will approach.
I still maintain that you'd be foolish to get stuck in straight away, without at least making arrangements for the emergency call. Chances are, if you've got time to effect a rescue and get the rescuers clear (easier said than done, given the height of platforms), there'd be enough time to have an approaching train stopped and then make more robust arrangements to get them out. It's no use diving straight in, only to find that you can't manage to get them out...and the train's still approaching at speed.
IanD
Established Member
Maybe some passing thug mistook her chair for a Euston trolley?
Not exactly hard to contact the siggy first though, is it? As I tell my guys, if you get hurt then you are of no help to anyone in the incident
I think it's more that the employee has acted on impulse than stuck two fingers up at the rules. What the employee did was place themselves in danger which actually isn't clever, but then it's easy to criticise from an armchair after the event when the pressure isn't on.
Yeah and that would have been the same up until Major got hold of the railways as everyone would have had the same basic railway training. Some platform staff were even trained in point winding, handsignalling, bridge bash examination etc so, when something went wrong staff were on hand locally
However that was then, this is now, these days, with operators looking to save where they can and the increased use of agency staff, people only get trained for absolutely the minimum of what they need. That's today's railway for you
Not very well thought out. If there was such "imminent danger" of death or serious injury from getting ran over how is it safe to act on impulse and go on the tracks? You can't have it both ways.
Tough situation though. Not sure where I stand on this one really :-/
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TOCDriver
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If a path had been set, i do know that it would be very difficult to prevent any oncoming high speed vehicle from stopping in time. But, people must use their judgment, and if it was a genuine emergency, I'm sure 99% of railway workers would have done the same as this brave chap. I know I would have done
It's difficult to say, without having being there. Can we agree (and, for all we know, the member of staff in question might have done so) that it'd be foolish to dive in without at least arranging for an emergency call to be made first, even if that meant instructing someone else to go away and do that?
TOCDriver
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There is no right or wrong answer, mate. I feel you must make your own judgment at the time based on what you can see and hear. It's a difficult one, thats for sure.
hairyhandedfool
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There are a few ways to stop a train in an emergency, calling the signalman is one. The others, given the likely speed of a stopping train, would probably be quicker. From what little I know of this incident, going onto a live railway was the wrong call, of course, judgement at the scene may have been clouded by the incident unfolding.
johnnychips
Established Member
High Camera wrote:
If members of the public jump on the line on instinct, you can't stop them. Suspension is not always a negative move (as others have pointed out); thank goodness nobody got hurt; and as a cliche, 'lessons can be learnt'. But I do wish that people could realise that accidents do happen and people react as they see best on an instant decision.
If members of the public jump on the line on instinct, you can't stop them. Suspension is not always a negative move (as others have pointed out); thank goodness nobody got hurt; and as a cliche, 'lessons can be learnt'. But I do wish that people could realise that accidents do happen and people react as they see best on an instant decision.
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cjmillsnun
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No, it's a possible prelude to disciplinary action, however it's normally done to allow an investigation to take place.
From what I've read it sounds like one railway employee and three non-employees were on the track to help this woman. Who were these three non-employees? Did the railway employee encourage these people down on to the track? Even if he didn't ask them to join him, his presence on the track may have encouraged others.
Can you imagine if a railway employee had asked three passengers onto the track and they had been killed?
Can you imagine if a railway employee had asked three passengers onto the track and they had been killed?
martybabes
Member
suspension should be considered as a neutral act - there should be no inferences drawn as to guilt or otherwise during the period of suspension.
Indeed, this.
Now whilst I do not condone his actions for doing just what he did because he really should have called the signaller and get a block on all lines before going down, I am a bit alarmed at the claims of him getting hit himself by a train. Its a pretty straight bit of track leading into and out of the station and given its promenence there will be no traincs passing through the station at speed so any train that was approaching wouldve been doing so at a slow enough speed to stop surely when they saw her fall? What is the approach to the station - 15-20MPH?
Best wait for the report really as its all just conjecture and the CCTV will give a much better picture of how they ended up on the track also.
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