Why isn't Oyster rolled out nationwide?

class303 · 13 Sep 2013

With Glasgow's "Bramble" :roll: card on the horizon it just got me thinking. Why don't they just install oyster to the Glasgow subway and even suburban rail services? I assume the barriers installed at Glasgow Central and elsewhere are compatible?

Is there any need for an entirely different smart-card system?

While I appreciate oyster is funded by TFL or whoever i don't see why SPT (or whoever) can't just contribute to it in order to use the system? Not just Glasgow, but all major cities? Oyster works so well i think it's a shame not to roll it out further and see no reason why it needs to be confined to London.

Roll it out in the big cities and surely it's progress towards a national smart-card network? To have to have a different card and balance for every city I wish to visit seems a pain to me.

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traji00 · 13 Sep 2013

I believe that may be the (eventual) intention with ITSO cards - even Oyster is being updated to be compatible. AFAIK the way in which Oyster works is way too complex :/

But I'm sure someone would be able to explain better than me.

Mcr Warrior · 13 Sep 2013

:roll: Presumably, you couldn't have a "touch in, touch out" ticket across the national network, could you, just pre-loaded tickets? (Otherwise, how much would the maximum charge be for failing to touch out properly?)

quarella · 13 Sep 2013

While I appreciate oyster is funded by TFL or whoever

There you have hit the crux of the matter. In any shared revenue operation there will be disputes funding of the equipment to start with and then receiving a fare share of the income.

wibble · 13 Sep 2013

I don't think Oyster will be around much in the next 5 years - I reckon it'll be superceded by contactless payment cards, ITSO smartcards and NFC.

bicbasher · 13 Sep 2013

wibble said:
I don't think Oyster will be around much in the next 5 years - I reckon it'll be superceded by contactless payment cards, ITSO smartcards and NFC.

I wouldn't write off Oyster just yet. TfL Discounted travel will still require Oyster (and possibly ITSO) while Contactless won't be still as widespread as standard Chip and Pin.

class303 · 13 Sep 2013

Mcr Warrior said:
:roll: Presumably, you couldn't have a "touch in, touch out" ticket across the national network, could you, just pre-loaded tickets? (Otherwise, how much would the maximum charge be for failing to touch out properly?)

I just mean in the big cities for metro style journeys on National rail, like we currently see in London.

p123 · 13 Sep 2013

class303 said:
I assume the barriers installed at Glasgow Central and elsewhere are compatible?

Hahaha, I got the Bramble thing put in my Zonecard a few weeks ago. Tried it at Queen St and Central, and the gates just shout at me until I put the old paper Zonecard into them!

ChathillMan · 13 Sep 2013

Its is one of those things which sounds good until you think about how it would be implemented.

The cost of setting it up would be astronomical with each possible fare and route needing its own digital encryption.

Then the actual usage if it. Season tickets and single/return fares would be relatively easy to programme for smartcards. Pay as you go on the entire rail network? I am getting a headache just thinking about it

Deerfold · 13 Sep 2013

class303 said:
I just mean in the big cities for metro style journeys on National rail, like we currently see in London.

That would be confusing for passengers - you can use it for local journeys in London, and local journeys in, say, Birmingham, but not journeys between the two...

Oyster also has a limit to the number of Zones it can handle - and the current London system uses a lot of them.

jon0844 · 13 Sep 2013

Couldn't the maximum cash fare be 1/7 of a 7 day ALR?

Deerfold · 13 Sep 2013

jonmorris0844 said:
Couldn't the maximum cash fare be 1/7 of a 7 day ALR?

There's plenty of single fares higher than that. And I'm not sure many people would want to have that much loaded on a card.

Eagle · 13 Sep 2013

jonmorris0844 said:
Couldn't the maximum cash fare be 1/7 of a 7 day ALR?

That's only £66.29 at current prices.

Chrisgr31 · 13 Sep 2013

wibble said:
I don't think Oyster will be around much in the next 5 years - I reckon it'll be superceded by contactless payment cards, ITSO smartcards and NFC.

Isn't Oyster effectively a first generation ITSO smartcard?

Deerfold · 13 Sep 2013

Chrisgr31 said:
Isn't Oyster effectively a first generation ITSO smartcard?

Oyster predated the initial ITSO specifications (which is why it's quicker for a start...).

Subsequently the readers have been updated to be ITSO-compatible.

Freedom passes are both ITSO and Oyster (since 2010).

bb21 · 14 Sep 2013

jonmorris0844 said:
Couldn't the maximum cash fare be 1/7 of a 7 day ALR?

For a start, ALR is not valid on certain morning peak services, so maximum cash fare would have to be more than that.

jon0844 · 14 Sep 2013

I wasn't serious anyway! It couldn't work for a PAYG system nationwide but I expect it could for travel on other metro/tram/bus services and you'd load tickets on for longer journeys.

Obviously wouldn't be Oyster but hopefully a national smartcard usable on ALL transport.

island · 14 Sep 2013

Oyster can only support 15 zones or something in that region.

Eagle · 14 Sep 2013

island said:
Oyster can only support 15 zones or something in that region.

And there are currently thirteen zones in use on it already (including "zones" W, G, C and B).

Deerfold · 14 Sep 2013

jonmorris0844 said:
I wasn't serious anyway! It couldn't work for a PAYG system nationwide but I expect it could for travel on other metro/tram/bus services and you'd load tickets on for longer journeys.

Obviously wouldn't be Oyster but hopefully a national smartcard usable on ALL transport.

The Danish National Smartcard (if you get the unregistered version) has to be told if you're taking a long distance journey (and you're treated as having an invalid ticket if you don't). It will then deduct 700DKK (about £80) on entry to the system and refund however much when you touch out.

34D · 15 Sep 2013

Oyster is actually a very basic, 20th century technology.

ITSO can function (eventually) as a national smartcard, though don't expect to see a national PAYG product.

Why isn't Oyster rolled out nationwide?

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