MCW
Member
tell you what Leicester loses out on... services connecting to Bedford.... 1 train per hour, what the hell?? bloody mental IMO, why it can't be two trains I have no idea.
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Midland Main Line, 125 mph from 8 December 2013
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RichmondCommu
Established Member
Just out of interest how many trains run to Luton Parkway per hour?
Loki
Member
East Midlands Trains runs 1 train per hour in one direction.
First Capital Connect runs 8 trains per hour in one direction (peak) and 6tph off-peak.
Lots of EMT trains skip the station.
Will the line be cleared to UIC GB+ gauge upon electrification or at least safeguarded?
First Capital Connect runs 8 trains per hour in one direction (peak) and 6tph off-peak.
Lots of EMT trains skip the station.
Will the line be cleared to UIC GB+ gauge upon electrification or at least safeguarded?
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What do you mean HST Speeds? At present there is separate HST speeds on the route, however I am not sure of what the plan is with regards to putting these speeds up, or just putting the overall line speed for all traffic up.
Not sure on the exact date, but i'd imagine it will be 8th December as that is when the new timetable is implemented.
Correct, no speed increases towards Nottingham.
The Planner
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Gauge wise things normally get cleared for W12 and TENS if they can. Though there are so many different gauge descriptions now that could be anything....
The second Bedford call is taken up by the Corby service - very welcome too, as it speeds things up south of Leicester on the Derby semi-fast (effectively 3tph fast from Leicester if you can live with calling at Market Harborough). How many trains does Leicester - Bedford need anyway?!
A lot more once EWR starts being useful...
AlexS
Established Member
I'd much rather have another stopper going south than another fast - the Sheffield stopper as its known is rarely busy and the Notts HSTs cart around fresh air unless they've been filled with Megatrain types. Meanwhile, the stopping service is often nearly full at any time of day leaving Leicester and the local demand for travel to Kettering in particular is royally buggered about with.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
GB+ is the European standard gauge which certainly won't be provided. For one thing the platforms on a GB+ route have to be further from the track and would normaly be lower, so normal UK stock couldn't use these platforms because of the stepping distance. I would imagine W10/W12 would be provided to allow maximum size containers on normal wagons, at least north of Bedford which is part of the Electric Spine from Southampton.
Indeed, perhaps I'm just selfishly hoping to keep Loughborough's fast train to London! Hopefully electrification (and Thameslink?) will allow a decent stopping service south of Leicester whilst maintaining journey times north of Leicester!
Loki
Member
Reason why I'm asking is because it was actually a DfT idea:
http://webarchive.nationalarchives....gy/freightnetwork/strategicfreightnetwork.pdf
at 20.5
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Hmm, interesting thought, thanks for that.
The MML is more suitable for UIC B+ than the WCML, which was talked about previously, as from Bedford to Trent there are or were parallel former goods lines with little use by passenger services. In principle the relatively few passenger platforms on these lines could be removed or bypassed by new loops, to create a large gauge freight route largely independent from the rest of the network.
However it's well nigh impossible to see how Bedford could be linked to HS1 without huge amounts of new construction, since there are numerous stations with platforms that would be difficult to close or bypass. This suggests that any UIC gauge on the MML would be no more than a very long term prospect. It would probably be easier to build the HS2-HS1 link as a proper double track with a connection to the southern end of the GC and use that as the large gauge route as far as Leicester.
CallySleeper
Established Member
I think I confused differential (HST) speeds between Derby and Sheffield with 125mph running.
To be honest I'm still sceptical re: 8th December. This is because:
1) a lot of publications regarding the improvements cite 'Spring 2014' as the time when the speeds will increase, and not 8th Dec (unless something else is published in the meantime)
2) as I said earlier, journey time reductions appear, frankly to be minimal
3) side note but HST sets are also still timetabled to run at only 110mph as of Dec. 13.
Loki
Member
I get you about the platforms but the document speaks of GB+ height for a starter so no platform alterations for the moment. I mean NR will need to do height clearance for wires and containers so they might as well clear a few extra inches. Hopefully at least.
Belsize tunnel is 80mph but it's still 70-80mph on the UF until well past Kentish Town - the speed drops to 50mph at Camden Road tunnels. This is a pretty decent speed approaching St Pancras. I can't see any increase really being usable so close to the terminus and along with junctions and conflicting moves with services leaving the station I think any further increase at the south end is unlikely.
Well technically the four tracking north of Bedford only ever went as far as Glendon Junction, north of Kettering, where the Corby line diverges and forms the alternative route - but removing or bypassing the platforms at Corby, Oakham and Melton Mowbray may be easier said than done. There's also tunnels to be considered.
Four tracks reappeared in the Wigston area as the Nuneaton-Leicester line joined, and indeed do still exist from Leicester to Trent, but these are no longer goods lines but slow lines, with stations at Syston, Sileby, Barrow on Soar, Loughborough and East Midlands Parkway.
85mph through Wellingborough sounds a tad high to me, but Hey Ho.
Will Ampthill tunnel still be a reduced speed on the fast lines? I think it is 100mph at the moment.
I still think that a Sheffield, Chesterfield and Leicester to St Pancras service via the Erewash would reduce journey times for Sheffield and Chesterfield passengers, even if it was 2 hourly.
Will Ampthill tunnel still be a reduced speed on the fast lines? I think it is 100mph at the moment.
I still think that a Sheffield, Chesterfield and Leicester to St Pancras service via the Erewash would reduce journey times for Sheffield and Chesterfield passengers, even if it was 2 hourly.
Well 8th December is only part 1 of the project, December 2014 will see the full effect of the project being rolled out. HSTs are going to continue being timed at 110mph, due to the sheer length of time it took to get to 125mph and ride quality during testing.
The plan is to have the tunnel at 125mph, tests were carried out earlier in the year.
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edwin_m
Veteran Member
Yes, I agree it wouldn't be easy. Maybe better to switch UIC freight to the main line at Glendon and do a total rebuild of Market Harborough, straightening it out and creating a four-track layout with platform loops on the outer tracks. Divert the Ivanhoe line to Toton instead of Nottingham and run with a small fleet of UIC gauge EMUs?
However all this is pie in the sky until someone works out how to connect it to London.
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I get you about the platforms but the document speaks of GB+ height for a starter so no platform alterations for the moment. I mean NR will need to do height clearance for wires and containers so they might as well clear a few extra inches. Hopefully at least.
Indeed. Setting the wires high enough to clear GB+ where there is no vertical constraint would be a good start, though I seem to recall that standard UK wire height would just about allow this.
According to the WON, yes. The boards are up ready for the bin bags to be removed!
This will be the new linespeed on sections of the route. If the driver chooses to do 125mph then yes, in accordance with the booked times.
shinkansen1966
Member
In their publicity, East Midlands Trains refer to further journey time improvement from May 2014. Does anyone know exactly what these improvements will be ?
alwaystouchout
Member
If Thameslink were ever to head further north from Bedford I'd argue it should run to Leicester rather than Corby? Then perhaps most Intercity EMT services could run fast between Leicester and St Pancras cutting journey times further.
43074
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I think that is more to do with the Nottingham Resignalling project than the linespeed improvements.
YorkshireBear
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I was just coming back to say that.
I think all the linespeed increases are south of Nottingham. Nice that the signalling project knocks a little time off it though.
43074
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The linespeed improvements are mainly between Trent Junction where the Nottingham and Derby lines join and Elstree & Borehamwood but there are some improvements between Derby and Sheffield as well.
The resignalling knocks 2 mins off journey times IIRC.
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