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New to rail industry Union help
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BestWestern
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Well, it'll either be Aslef or the RMT. Best thing is to ask your colleagues who they are all with, chances are they'll all be in the same one, also find out who your reps are and which Union they are from. I'm guessing RMT, Aslef is generally focussed on the driving grade.
Or you could (like a growing number of us in the industry) eschew the bullying and class-war nonsense (let alone the very high union dues) of the main unions and just don't join.
If you feel you must join a union then I'd recommend ACTU - http://www.atcu.org.uk/index.html - although be prepared to be mocked, bullied and intimidated by other staff who hate the fact that the main unions' oligopoly has been challenged.
If you feel you must join a union then I'd recommend ACTU - http://www.atcu.org.uk/index.html - although be prepared to be mocked, bullied and intimidated by other staff who hate the fact that the main unions' oligopoly has been challenged.
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the sniper
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Just out of curiosity, have you got the proof to support your comment that I've put in bold? I'd be interested to see those numbers.
Personally I think one the best thing about working on the railway is the strength of its major unions, whether you're in the ASLEF or RMT. As a Guard at my depot, you'd have to be mad or extremely stingy not to be in the union and appreciate the work it does.
Flamingo
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You need to join a union for the protection, be it from managers with an agenda, or passengers with a grudge, or colleagues trying to stitch you up.
From conversation with other staff, I think if there was a realistic alternative to the RMT that at least half the staff would join it. The RMT is way too loony left in it's politics and view for a lot of it's members, and it's only the work on the ground by some reps that keeps people in. I'd say most members are in the RMT despite, rather than because, of it's stance on a lot of issues.
When the ACTU hits a critical mass, it's going to get very interesting...
From conversation with other staff, I think if there was a realistic alternative to the RMT that at least half the staff would join it. The RMT is way too loony left in it's politics and view for a lot of it's members, and it's only the work on the ground by some reps that keeps people in. I'd say most members are in the RMT despite, rather than because, of it's stance on a lot of issues.
When the ACTU hits a critical mass, it's going to get very interesting...
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Smudger105e
Member
As groundstaff your union should be RMT or TSSA. ASLEF is for drivers. In my opinion joining a non recognised Trade Union is pointless.
And after a railway career of over 35 years, I would not NOT be in a Trade Union.
Sent from my GT-I8190N using Tapatalk 2
And after a railway career of over 35 years, I would not NOT be in a Trade Union.
Sent from my GT-I8190N using Tapatalk 2
SkinnyDave
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I'm glad someone brought this up.
I am due to start as a Trainee Train Driver next month and was wondering if it is worthwhile joining up straight away?
I will be honest every pound will be a prisoner in my first year hence me asking this. However longer term I will be part of a union.
I am due to start as a Trainee Train Driver next month and was wondering if it is worthwhile joining up straight away?
I will be honest every pound will be a prisoner in my first year hence me asking this. However longer term I will be part of a union.
BestWestern
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SkinnyDave:1592661 said:
Yes, it is. As soon as you become a member of staff you want to be joining. You never know when you might need the representation; you could be unfortunate enough to be involved in an operational incident of some kind during your training and need the back up of a rep, or there might be an issie with your pay or your training, and so on. Find your rep and get the paperwork done at the first opportunity!
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BestWestern
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Shaggy:1592551 said:
That is very foolish advice indeed I'm afraid. No Union is simlpy not sensible, the management will think it's Christmas if you end up on a disciplinary. The ATCU have no clout at anywhere I visit, joining them as some sort of moral protest vote just puts you at a disadvantage, little else. Their reps have no credibility and the Union itself is not recognised by the TUC or the railway employers.
Many of us are not entirely in agreement with some of the major Union activity, but ultimately if the fan splatters the brown stuff you need the protection they can offer, it really is a no brainer.
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Flamingo
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ACTU do offer legal protection, and representation. TUC membership can't be that important (I mean, RMT is not a member either), and when the ACTU membership passes a certain point, it could be messy.
t_star2001uk
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How many TOC's/ FOC's recognise ACTU for the purposes of bargaining and negotiations?
Flamingo
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None at the moment. I wonder will that change?
Beveridges
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Have you ever considered staying out of the Unions until (or If) you ever get into trouble then join one at the last minute just before the management get a chance to bother you ?
CatfordCat
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Except it's worth reading the union's rules before you do that.
Most unions (I can't speak specifically for the railway unions) won't offer full scale representation in respect of a problem that started before you joined.
In much the same way you'd probably not get house insurance if you only tried to arrange it once your house was on fire...
With all TOCs you will be on probation for the first 6 or 12 months. In that time it is far easier for them to try and dismiss you if the need arises. To provide some protection from that it is best to sign up as soon as you join.
As someone who has worked for decades in non union areas.
Take it from me, if there's a union join it.
Unless of course you'd like to go into the 19th century and work 70+ hours a week with no sick or holiday pay.
Sacked on the spot.
Still plenty of jobs out there that operate like that.
As for the non union brigade working in the rail industry, take it they don't take the union negotiated pay rises.
Take it from me, if there's a union join it.
Unless of course you'd like to go into the 19th century and work 70+ hours a week with no sick or holiday pay.
Sacked on the spot.
Still plenty of jobs out there that operate like that.
As for the non union brigade working in the rail industry, take it they don't take the union negotiated pay rises.
telstarbox
Established Member
(It's ATCU - Associated Train Crew Union - not ACTU)
Only you can decide whether to join the union or not, but if your pay or conditions improve as a result of union negotiation, will you be happy to accept it if you aren't a union member?
Only you can decide whether to join the union or not, but if your pay or conditions improve as a result of union negotiation, will you be happy to accept it if you aren't a union member?
To give you my insight on Trade Unions as a Civil Servant with 25 years service, I would recommend that if you start a job where there is a strong trade union presence you need to join, even if you need every penny at the start.
In my 25 years I have needed TU help 3 times.
After 13 years when a bullying manager sent me off with work related stress for 6 months - result ? - I recovered and went back to work and havent been off with stress again
After 18 years I was falsely accused of sexual harassment by a female colleague - result ? - after a year of investigation & appeal (by her) I was cleared and had my good name restored.
After 22 years I was guilty of a minor misconduct charge and given a 12 month written warning.
The first two occasions, without TU representation could have seen me be dismissed for excessive sick leave and serious/gross misconduct if I hadnt had TU representation.
Being a TU member is like having insurance for an event that you dont want to happen but MAY happen - you also need to remember that unless YOU look after yourself nobody else will and management WILL stitch you up if they can !.
In my 25 years I have needed TU help 3 times.
After 13 years when a bullying manager sent me off with work related stress for 6 months - result ? - I recovered and went back to work and havent been off with stress again
After 18 years I was falsely accused of sexual harassment by a female colleague - result ? - after a year of investigation & appeal (by her) I was cleared and had my good name restored.
After 22 years I was guilty of a minor misconduct charge and given a 12 month written warning.
The first two occasions, without TU representation could have seen me be dismissed for excessive sick leave and serious/gross misconduct if I hadnt had TU representation.
Being a TU member is like having insurance for an event that you dont want to happen but MAY happen - you also need to remember that unless YOU look after yourself nobody else will and management WILL stitch you up if they can !.
cookiescrumble
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I'm not in a union and have no plans to join one.
What job are you in out of interest? Are you on the railway? If so do you still accept union negotiated pay rises which your union colleagues have effectively funded for you with their subscriptions?
Tom C
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The absolute worst type of person.
Those who choose not to be a TU member at least have a principle, a foolish one but a principle nonetheless.
Those who do as you mention are leeches and thankfully are prevented from doing so by union rules.
If your union allowed me to opt out of the collective bargaining process (rather than negotiate 'on my behalf' when I've never asked or paid them to do) then I would be delighted to individually negotiate with my line manager.
But why are you out of a union? Are you a driver? I'm just interested why you have chosen not to join?
Or a sensible principle derived from refusing to be part of an outfit which (tacitly if not outright) encourages in-work bullying, singling out of non correct union members and enjoys the hypocrisy of calling for a workers' revolution whilst at the same time pay their leaders six-figure packages.
On a more agreeable level, you're either a union member or not. The last thing I'd do is go crawling to one of the main unions for assistance after refusing to go along with their nonsense in the first place.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Fair question. Two reasons mainly.
1. A colleague of mine (Guard) left the RMT for various reasons to join ATCU. The response of men who for years had been his friends and colleagues was downright disgusting. He would walk into the mess room, whilst his colleagues would either get up and walk out, or be simply downright rude to him (he would say good morning and they would continue talking amongst themselves or tell him to f*** off). I do not want to be part of any organisation who encourages or even merely accepts this type of appalling schoolboy-like bullying.
2. I refuse to be part of an organisation which calls for a workers' revolution and calls constantly for class warfare etc. No problem with anyone doing so, but I don't want my subs encouraging this. Let alone when they pay their leaders such extravagant salary packages.
I understand and appreciate the good work the unions can do in representing workers in times of difficulty. Indeed I think for operational staff not to have any form of representation insurance (which for most is what unions are to them) is slightly odd. However I've chosen not to buy that insurance from the main members of the railway union oligopoly.
Out of interest, what first attracted you to the job then? What made you want to be a train driver?
notadriver
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From his post history Shaggy appears to be in resource control management - so is not a driver.
guardin_state
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That's a ridiculous thought.
Giving the employer the power to negotiate 1 on 1 with an employee their conditions and salary gives all the power to the employer. In 1 on 1 negotiations your terms and salary would have nothing to do with how good you think you are at your job or what you perceive your monetary value is as a skilled employee. Ultimately you would be given a take it or leave it offer.
Says more about your "colleagues" than anything else I think. That sort of attitude has no place in todays soceity.
Shunters at GBRf are in Aslef the same as drivers. So it either a case of your in Aslef or your not in a union as the company won't recognize any other. If one of our colleagues is not in a union it may raise a few eyebrows but union members would never treat non union members with such distain.
A union is only as good as its members.
Very well said.
Is say there is a lot more to what was described about the guards turning their back on a colleague because he left the union. I think we need to know exactly why he left the union first before passing any judgment. I don't believe that everyone would treat someone like that purely because they choose to leave a union. Normally people who are treated like that have done something to actually upset their colleagues first.
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