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Manchester Metrolink master thread

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507 001

507 001

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Latest T68 casualties- 1021 & 1003. Both withdrawn with traction faults. 1021 was also due an exam.

I get the impression that no repairs/exams are being done on T68s, that's 2 in less than a week, anything due just being withdrawn and another M5000 being brought out the box.

Looks like we may be on track for them all being gone by Christmas.
 
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507 001

507 001

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Paul Sidorczuk said:
507 001 said:
I get the impression that no repairs/exams are being done on T68s, that's 2 in less than a week, anything due just being withdrawn and another M5000 being brought out the box.

Looks like we may be on track for them all being gone by Christmas.
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What excellent news..:D
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Depends on your point of view, most say they are considerably better/more suitable than the M5000s and I'm inclined to agree!
 
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pemma

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507 001 said:
Depends on your point of view, most say they are considerably better/more suitable than the M5000s and I'm inclined to agree!
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I think there might be some sarcasm in Paul Sidorczuk's post considering he's previously posted about his disapproval of the reduction in seating capacity compared to the T68s.

I think the T68s have been used as a scapegoat for the failings of Metrolink. In a press release they blamed a lot of problems on tram failures caused by T68s but chose not to mention that the M5000s don't have 100% reliability.
 
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WatcherZero

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Nothing has 100% reliability, but on the plus side as theyve been phased out weve gone from vehicle failures twice weekly or more to barely once a two month reporting period. Theyve gone from being the highest cause of failures to sometimes not even making an appearance, now its mostly signalling equipment/points faulures, RTC's and external events like grid power failures and NR equipment failures.
 
rebmcr

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It'll be sad to see them go — their distinctive cab end design in particular was very iconic of Manchester for me.

Although when I'm heading from Didsbury to Piccadilly, changing at St Peter's Square they seem remarkably dark and dingy compared to the M5000 I've just stepped off.

Plus the M5000s remember 'door open' presses indefinitely, until the doors are released. That's pretty cool.
 
Manchester77

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Remember there's usually a six minute service to Altrincham with 8 doubles on ALT-BUR which I believe were not running due to engineering works
 
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ianhr

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I have always thought that one of the problems with Metrolink is that it is such a HYBRID system, with no coherent concept of what it should really be: some street tramway but with high platforms, some new build light rail with segregated track but frequent road crossings, some suburban electric railway with proper stations, converted heavy rail and re-opened abandoned heavy rail etc. Occasional fast running but some painfully slow.

So what is the ideal vehicle? The T68s are more suited to the interurban type routes but the M5000s more appropriate for street tramway, so they don't seem well suited to the Bury & Altrincham lines.
 
Manchester77

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With the tram train proposals it's planned for the vehicles to operate ALT-PIC anyway to improve ride and because the M5000s are really suited to that line. Think the M5000s are pretty good for metrolink though seem to operate well, ideally a variant with denser seating (not just an extra 8) would be built (ideally T68 style but compliment to modern DDA regs)
 
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pemma

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ianhr said:
I have always thought that one of the problems with Metrolink is that it is such a HYBRID system, with no coherent concept of what it should really be: some street tramway but with high platforms, some new build light rail with segregated track but frequent road crossings, some suburban electric railway with proper stations, converted heavy rail and re-opened abandoned heavy rail etc. Occasional fast running but some painfully slow.

So what is the ideal vehicle? The T68s are more suited to the interurban type routes but the M5000s more appropriate for street tramway, so they don't seem well suited to the Bury & Altrincham lines.
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Really Altrincham-Deansgate via Sale should have remained part of National Rail and Metrolink phase 1 should have used vehicles suitable for both street running and National Rail, then multiple issues in the current day could have been solved:
1. Single track section congestion at Navigation Road with one line being NR and one Metrolink.
2. Insufficient peak time paths through Stockport for half-hourly peak time service between Manchester and Northwich, Knutsford and Hale.
3. Lack of paths for freight between Trafford Park and the West Midlands.
4. Vehicles not really providing much comfort for passengers.
5. Passengers being exposed to the excessive squealing from Pacers between Skelton Junction and Deansgate Junction - even the 150s squeal a bit on that section.
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Manchester77 said:
With the tram train proposals it's planned for the vehicles to operate ALT-PIC anyway to improve ride and because the M5000s are really suited to that line. Think the M5000s are pretty good for metrolink though seem to operate well, ideally a variant with denser seating (not just an extra 8) would be built (ideally T68 style but compliment to modern DDA regs)
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TfGM quotes the Capital cost if built now (£m with 66% contingency allowance and including vehicle purchase) for that as £46m and they give it low to medium value for money. So I'm not sure where you've got the idea it will happen considering they rate their preferred route (Marple) as having high value for money and their preferred route for a possible phase 2 (Glossop) as having medium value for money.
 
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jcollins said:
TfGM quotes the Capital cost if built now (£m with 66% contingency allowance and including vehicle purchase) for that as £46m and they give it low to medium value for money. So I'm not sure where you've got the idea it will happen considering they rate their preferred route (Marple) as having high value for money and their preferred route for a possible phase 2 (Glossop) as having medium value for money.
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It is because there is no spare capacity through Piccadilly (Metrolink) for additional services, so the Marple tram-trains have to replace some of the tram services that currently terminate at Piccadilly, forming a cross-city service. Tram-trains are more suitable for the Altrincham line than for Eccles/Media CityUK, so the Altrincham proposal is "making a virtue of necessity"!
 
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I completely agree, nothing has 100% reliability. However it has been mentioned to me in the past that M5000's are a lot easier to get going again if they do fail, compared to a T68, so even though they don't have 100% reliability, I agree entirely with Watcher that we barely hear about tram failures anymore.

I'll be very sad to see them go. Even the iconic Manchester band 'Elbow' featured one in a music video! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZGGrHcC_xM at 0:34!

I didn't start really liking trams until a few years ago when the Oldham Loop closed but I'm sure once they're gone and the streets are completely yellow, other Mancunian's will miss the T68's too...I hope they will anyway :(
 
507 001

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Slim, too heavy, high level etc etc.

Apparently TfGM still wants to sell them.
 
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As the fleet that started the street tramway revival in the UK, one really ought to be preserved somewhere though it would probably only be a static exhibit. Does MOSI have any spare space?
 
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Daytripper said:
What does have "100% reliability"?
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Nothing but the way TfGM worded the press release was along the lines of when they get rid of the T68s the problems related to unit failures will go away. A new car that a family member of mine has went 6 years without a failure, then it failed due to the battery being flat. If Joe Public compares a tram to their car then they might expect it to have 100% reliability in the first few years
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edwin_m said:
As the fleet that started the street tramway revival in the UK, one really ought to be preserved somewhere though it would probably only be a static exhibit. Does MOSI have any spare space?
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There is a prototype T68 in the Museum of Transport in Manchester: http://www.gmts.co.uk/explore/vehicles/decade.html#1990s
 
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Thats only a wooden half mockup that was used to show it off to the public before the production units arrived.
 
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Topgun333

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edwin_m said:
As the fleet that started the street tramway revival in the UK, one really ought to be preserved somewhere though it would probably only be a static exhibit. Does MOSI have any spare space?
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I was speaking with the general manager at the Crich Tram Museum. He reckons a T68 is headed for the Heaton Park Tramway.
 
Xenophon PCDGS

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JackClare said:
I agree entirely with Watcher that we barely hear about tram failures anymore.
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It appears that points failures have now been the main cause of recent problems, especially in the areas between Cornbrook (<() and Deansgate-Castlefield.

Incidentally, I took my good lady wife of some 72 years vintage on the Bury to Ashton-under-Lyne Metrolink service earlier this week as a treat so she could experience the ride in an M5000 on the Bury to Radcliffe section that the T68's had done remarkable things to the track over a period of time. She wondered had the fitters from Blackpool Pleasure Beach had been installing specially fitments that would treat the riding passengers to similar exciting violent sideways-to-sideways motion to certain rides on their ride-park...<(
 
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Big news for Oldham Town Centre line.

New year, new Metrolink line for Oldham

Oldham’s new town centre Metrolink line is on course to open ahead of schedule, following a change to the dates for the redevelopment of Network Rail’s Manchester Victoria station and tram stop.

The Oldham town centre line has four new stops – Westwood, Oldham King Street, Oldham Central and Oldham Mumps, with the latter integrating tram and bus services and providing a new, free park and ride site for Metrolink passengers.

It had been scheduled to open in spring 2014, but is now in line to open early in the new year.

That is possible because the redevelopment work at Manchester Victoria station and tram stop – and the associated Metrolink service changes* – has been rescheduled from January to the end of February/early March (with full details and revised timing to follow).

This allows the diversion of the temporary Oldham-Rochdale line to the new Oldham town centre route to be done beforehand, rather than after.

Diverting the line will require a weeklong closure of the existing line between Central Park and Rochdale Railway Station – but will be followed immediately by the launch of the town centre line into passenger service.

More details on the timing of the closure, the accompanying replacement bus services and the actual launch date for the town centre line, will be provided closer to the time.

Peter Cushing, TfGM’s Metrolink Director, said: “It’s been several months since we announced the changes in store at Victoria and in that time we’ve been able to develop the detail and also make great progress on the Oldham town centre line.

“The two taken together have presented the window of opportunity to deliver Oldham’s new line much earlier than expected, which is fantastic.

“There is a lot of work to get through before we can be more specific on exactly when the town centre line will open, but we’ll make sure everyone is kept up to speed as things progress so people can plan and prepare accordingly.”
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http://www.tfgm.com/Corporate/media_centre/Pages/News.aspx?articleId=349

So ORL will be closed for week to connect wires and tracks from Mumps and Werneth but aleast I would still see trams running from Freehold to Mumps for ghost service that week :) I wonder if this mean that Rochdale Town Centre line wouldn't be opening same time as Oldham line then?
 
rebmcr

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familyguy99 said:
So ORL will be closed for week to connect wires and tracks from Mumps and Werneth but aleast I would still see trams running from Freehold to Mumps for ghost service that week :) I wonder if this mean that Rochdale Town Centre line wouldn't be opening same time as Oldham line then?
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Well the Rochdale extension won't require a full line closure to connect or to ghost, so they have a lot more flexibility to do that whenever they feel like it.
 
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Would anyone be able to confirm which units are currently in traffic please? A summary of which T68s are left and which of the 'new' units are now in passenger use would be most useful.
 
Manchester77

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Plus Rochdale needs TMS working to allow the other platform at Railway Station to be used otherwise you'd have all single line from Newbold the Rochdale TC.
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theblackwatch said:
Would anyone be able to confirm which units are currently in traffic please? A summary of which T68s are left and which of the 'new' units are now in passenger use would be most useful.
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http://www.britishtramsonline.co.uk/manchester.html this list is mostly correct, 3074 is in service though and I think 3070 is too(?), 3068&3069 are the units at Rochdale for testing. T68s wise 1003 was withdrawn a few days ago and there's 1002&1016 which we haven't seen out in service for a while so were not sure about. I'll have a look on SCC to see if there's been any sitings :)

EDIT: this post by brad states the last sitings of them but we won't know for definite until we see them at Old Trafford
Bradfordian2 said:
I last recorded 1016 in service on Wednesday 30 October but it wasn't around on 7/13 November. 1002 was in service 7 November, but not 13 November. I agree that that's not very definitive, but the fact is I've been busy with something at home just recently and haven't had much chance to survey the tram scene. It does show, however, that it's only just over a week since 1002 was definitely in service, and T68s have been known to come bounding back after absences of greater than that, even in recent times. 1016 managed to survive that skirmish in Mosley Street, don't forget.
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