Is the following an example of train wheels slipping?

infobleep · 19 Nov 2013

On one of the Waterloo slow trains to Guildford via Cobham At some of them stations we are departing from there sounds like the reving of motors slightly as we try to pull away. It seems as if we momentary slow down before pulling away again.

Would this be the wheels slipping on the tracks or something else completely different. I noticed it at Hinchley Wood and Claygate but not since then.

If it's not that how would a passenger know they were on a train with slipping wheels?

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Crossover · 19 Nov 2013

I've been on a few trains recently with wheelslip issues. Generally I've found it reps up, you sometimes feel the slip, and power gets dropped. The power dropping is quite noticeable with diesels

samuelmorris · 19 Nov 2013

Sudden increase in traction motor pitch (unsure what effect it has on DMUs) that does not correspond to an increase in speed, and a gap in acceleration, is likely to be wheelslip.

Crossover · 19 Nov 2013

On DMU's, I have found the engine starts to race (through increasing revs) and then once the computers realise, it kills the power and returns the engines to idle. On a 185 I was on last Saturday between Lancaster and Barrow, the wheelslip was so bad as we pulled away from stations, the train appeared to slide sideways slightly too!

brillopad · 19 Nov 2013

infobleep said:
If it's not that how would a passenger know they were on a train with slipping wheels?

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Just come down through Devon & Cornwall on an HST that suffered badly with wheel slip - when the front powercar slips the rear one drives the carriages together - when the rear powercar slips the carriages stretch out - like riding a concertina.

455driver · 19 Nov 2013

infobleep said:
On one of the Waterloo slow trains to Guildford via Cobham At some of them stations we are departing from there sounds like the reving of motors slightly as we try to pull away. It seems as if we momentary slow down before pulling away again.

Would this be the wheels slipping on the tracks or something else completely different. I noticed it at Hinchley Wood and Claygate but not since then.

Sounds like it, 2 of our more demanding stations this time of year.

A-driver · 20 Nov 2013

infobleep said:
If it's not that how would a passenger know they were on a train with slipping wheels?

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On acceleration it would feel slightly rough, almost like a car stalling, pretty much what you describe.

On braking you may feel some shuddering and hear the WSP blowing (short sharp puffs of air under the train). And if course shooting through your station is a good indication that the wheels have locked up to...

bangor-toad · 20 Nov 2013

A-driver said:
On braking you may feel some shuddering and hear the WSP blowing (short sharp puffs of air under the train). And if course shooting through your station is a good indication that the wheels have locked up to...

Felt that late one night on Coastway West out of Brighton. It was this time of year, rather wet a slippery. I was right at the front of the 377 and there was a sliding feeling as we came into one of the stations.
All I could hear was an education in profanity from behind the driver's door as the train stopped with the front carriage beyond the end of the platform!

There was a short delay of a minute or two and then we were off again so it clearly wasn't a big problem.
Cheers,
Jason

Crossover · 20 Nov 2013

A-driver said:
And if course shooting through your station is a good indication that the wheels have locked up to...

Or into a buffer...

pdq · 21 Nov 2013

I'm curious to know if poor rail conditions could ever result in a train being unable to pull away, and what might happen to recover it in this situation.

Yesterday evening, the 144 I got off at Batley (towards Leeds) had a lot of difficulty getting much traction out of the station up the hill, and it seemed to me that just a little less grip would have left the train stationary.

edwin_m · 21 Nov 2013

This morning we had an unexpected signal stop in the leafy suburbs of Nottingham on the 0945 to Liverpool, 4-car 158. On restarting the train only just got moving before the wheels started spinning, then the driver backed off and engaged a lower power notch to pick up a bit more speed until the same thing happened again. After a few repeats of this we had got out of the tree-lined cutting and could run mororless normally.

A-driver · 22 Nov 2013

It's rare, but not unheard of, for a train to fail because of rail conditions but there are certainly numerous examples of trains struggling to get going.

The wall of death approaching sutton is well known and slam doors often had to be 'walked up ' (basically power, brake, power, brake etc to inch it up the bank). There are also examples of where a 2-3min leg between stations on a suburban route has taken over 20mims due to rail conditions-ewell in surry up the bank to cheam was known for problems like that as are certain parts of the Hertford loop. Many drivers say that before sanders were fitted winchmore hill-grange park could take at least 20mins.

TEW · 22 Nov 2013

HSTs getting stuck on the Devon banks this time of year is not uncommon, normally at least once or twice each autumn. Normally means using the manual sanding sticks to get going again. Having to run wrong line back down the bank does happen on occasion too if the train really can't get up.

O L Leigh · 22 Nov 2013

I almost got stuck at a signal outside Stansted Mountfitchet a few years back. I got instant wheelslip the moment I opened the taps. In the end I had to creep it forward in Notch 1 just to get enough forward motion that the sanders would actually deposit sand under the wheels where it might actually do me some good rather than just making a nice neat pile in front of the wheels where it wouldn't do any good at all.

But yes it is possible to fail with lack of adhesion. Empties coming off the Graham Road Curve would occasionally stall at the top if they'd been stopped at the signal and would need to set-back towards Dalston in order to get a run at it.

O L Leigh

JB25 · 22 Nov 2013

I had horrendous wheel slip / spin last week. Never heard anything like it...

hock:

All I could liken it to was when a car is stuck in snow and you keep revving the engine but the wheels are just spinning without moving. That was what it sounded like.

matchmaker · 24 Nov 2013

Has the northbound Caledonian Sleeper not had occasional problems on Shap/Beattock due to the Class 90 slipping to a stand due to poor railhead conditions?

W230 · 25 Nov 2013

pdq said:
I'm curious to know if poor rail conditions could ever result in a train being unable to pull away, and what might happen to recover it in this situation.

It took a colleague half an hour to get up the hill from Tooting to Streatham on a few years back. Should answer your question...

JB25 · 27 Nov 2013

With regards to pulling away usually between Kenley and Whyteleafe I get it up to 45-50mph before shutting off. Last Saturday morning I think the most I could get a 455 up to was 27mph.

hock:

Is the following an example of train wheels slipping?

infobleep

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Crossover

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samuelmorris

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Crossover

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brillopad

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455driver

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A-driver

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bangor-toad

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TEW

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matchmaker

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