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F1 2013

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rm88

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Can marussia hold on to 10th this time? Remember Pic and Petrov battling it out in Brazil last year, and despite having a spin near the end, petrov overtook the marussia of pic to get 10th in the constructors. Also I think another driver crashed out to guarantee Caterham 10th.
 
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GWRtom

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Can marussia hold on to 10th this time? Remember Pic and Petrov battling it out in Brazil last year, and despite having a spin near the end, petrov overtook the marussia of pic to get 10th in the constructors. Also I think another driver crashed out to guarantee Caterham 10th.

No chance.

Giedo and Pic are just too good(Compared to Bianchi,Chilton) not to get tenth place for Caterham in the Constructors.
 

DavidBrown

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No chance.

Giedo and Pic are just too good(Compared to Bianchi,Chilton) not to get tenth place for Caterham in the Constructors.

So you're absolutely certain that one of the Caterham's will finish 12th or better this weekend? Got to be honest - I wouldn't be rushing to put money on it.
There's no doubt whatsoever that Caterham have been the better team again, but whilst the current points scoring system has been great for the top end and midfield teams, it's no good at all for the back markers, where one (possibly flukey) result decides the entire season.
 

hairyhandedfool

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Perhaps a radical overhaul of the points system? Maybe with every position getting points equal to the position they finish the races and the lowest points scorer over the season being the champion? That way, even if you don't finish you get points.....(yeah, okay, Vettel will still walk it.....)
 

GWRtom

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So you're absolutely certain that one of the Caterham's will finish 12th or better this weekend? Got to be honest - I wouldn't be rushing to put money on it.
There's no doubt whatsoever that Caterham have been the better team again, but whilst the current points scoring system has been great for the top end and midfield teams, it's no good at all for the back markers, where one (possibly flukey) result decides the entire season.

your right i forgot what the gap was between Caterham and Marussia.
No chance of Caterham catching Marussia.

The current point's system really is appalling for the back markers when you end up with situations like this
 

Liam

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I think the points system should still be 10-6-4-3-2-1. However in this era when all the cars are super-reliable it would mean anyone who isn't in a Red Bull, Ferrari, Mercedes, Lotus or McLaren would struggle to get off the 0 mark.

2013 on the 90's system:

Code:
Driver		Points		Change

Vettel 		140		=
Alonso 		67		=
Raikkonen 	54		+1
Webber		47		+1
Hamilton	46		-2
Rosberg		43		=
Grosjean	31		=
Massa		18		=
Hulkenburg	6		+2
Button		5		-1
Di Resta	4		-1
Perez 		3		=
Sutil		2		=
Vergne		1		+1
Ricciardo	0		-1
Gutierrez	0		=
Bottas		0		=
Maldonando	0		=
Bianchi		0		=
Pic		0		=
van der Garde	0		=
Chilton		0		=
Kovalainen	0		=

Hamilton is the biggest loser, Hulkenburg the biggest winner. The Toro Rosso's switch places too. The 0 pointers might move about a bit depending on highest finishes etc.

The good thing about the current scoring system is that Bottas has 4 times as many points as Maldonado :D
 
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rm88

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Im glad that Bottas and Gutierrez have scored points this season.

Caterham nead 13th match marussias 13th, caterham have finished ahead of marussia more times aswell so caterham will get 10th.

Why is Pic ahead on Van der Garde? I'm sure it must be the other way round, I suppose it depends on highest finishes. Whereas VDG got into Q2 once and usually finishes ahead of Pic.
 

DavidBrown

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Why is Pic ahead on Van der Garde? I'm sure it must be the other way round, I suppose it depends on highest finishes. Whereas VDG got into Q2 once and usually finishes ahead of Pic.

Pic has had two 14th place finishes (Malaysia and Korea) whereas VDG has only the one (Hungary). Chilton also has one 14th place finish (Monaco), but is behind VDG based on 15th placed finishes, I believe.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Out of some boredom, and watching FP2 and the commentators discussing the subject of points for everyone, I decided to see what the tables would look like (for the bottom four drivers) if points went down to 20th (the way I would have things), like this..

13th - 8 points
14th - 7
15th - 6
16th - 5
17th - 4
18th - 3
19th - 2
20th - 1
21st, 22nd & DNF - 0

...and the results are very interesting.

PIC - 63 pts
BIA - 59 pts
VDG - 55 pts
CHI - 54 pts

So Caterham would have 118 points, and Marussia 113. Far, far closer in both championships than I was expecting, and would mean any result in Brazil would be a fair one rather than a fluke.
 

rm88

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Marussia needed that 10th place and they got it, looks like they wont be the smallest team next season, they will be the joint smallest.

How far are Marussia and Caterham from the middle order? 1 season, 2 seasons away.
 

DownSouth

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I think the points system should still be 10-6-4-3-2-1. However in this era when all the cars are super-reliable it would mean anyone who isn't in a Red Bull, Ferrari, Mercedes, Lotus or McLaren would struggle to get off the 0 mark.
I would like it if there was a one-point-per-placing system counting up from 20th place (1 point) to first (20 points) with the 90's 10-6-4-3-2-1 points added on top to incentivise finishing in the top positions. The result would be 30-25-22-20-18-16-14-13-12-11-10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1-0-0, and I would add 2 points each for pole and fastest lap to make drivers other than Vettel give it a crack in the final laps.

Classifications for drivers retirements within the last 10% of the race would be dropped so drivers only count as finished if they cross the line to take the flag, and every lap dropped to the leaders would reduce the number to be scored by one.

If in charge I would also make a few other changes...
1. A cap on the amount of downforce, enforced by mandatory wind tunnel tests and weight penalties added for cars producing too much at any one of a few selected test speeds.
2. Combine Q1-Q2 into one 30 minute session and replace Q3 with individual single lap runs for the top ten with an extra set of super-soft tyres provided for that one lap.
3. Change the race distance to two hours plus one more full lap.
4. De-restrict the engine formula, restrict it only by the maximum allotment of fuel for the race and make everything else (size, type, turbos, rotary, KERS) pretty well unrestricted - like it was for the glory days of Group C sports-racer cars.
 

GB

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Perhaps a radical overhaul of the points system? Maybe with every position getting points equal to the position they finish the races and the lowest points scorer over the season being the champion? That way, even if you don't finish you get points.....(yeah, okay, Vettel will still walk it.....)

Unless I have misunderstood, surely with something like that you risk wiping out a drivers good work if they happened to have, for any reason, one bad result?
 
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hairyhandedfool

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....If in charge I would also make a few other changes...
1. A cap on the amount of downforce, enforced by mandatory wind tunnel tests and weight penalties added for cars producing too much at any one of a few selected test speeds.
2. Combine Q1-Q2 into one 30 minute session and replace Q3 with individual single lap runs for the top ten with an extra set of super-soft tyres provided for that one lap.
3. Change the race distance to two hours plus one more full lap.
4. De-restrict the engine formula, restrict it only by the maximum allotment of fuel for the race and make everything else (size, type, turbos, rotary, KERS) pretty well unrestricted - like it was for the glory days of Group C sports-racer cars.

As a general rule F1 is trying to reduce costs to help the lower half of the grid and also reduce it's 'carbon footprint'. To be honest I think your changes go very much against that aim, but putting that to one side for a moment.....

1. Downforce is far more complex than that, just look at how the exhaust regs changed for this season and how it will change again for next season......

2. Would cars qualifying in the top ten still have to start the race on the tyres they qualify on and what happens if they choose not to run? Part of the penalty for being fast in qualifying is having to use more of your tyres.

3. Why? Is 70 odd laps of Monaco not enough for you?

4. As I understand it, there already is a limit on fuel (fuel tank size plus no refueling), it seems silly to restrict fuel and nothing else. Teams are already using as little fuel as possible in a race to reduce weight.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Unless I have misunderstood, surely with something like that you risk wiping out a drivers good work if they happened to have, for any reason, one bad result?

You mean like when a driver fails to finish a race while his main rival collects 25 for winning?
 
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GB

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But its easier to make up and limit the damage of those 25 points over the coming races as it is now.

If a top rate driver has several wins and has a total point score of say 6 points for 6 wins but then has a DNF and a 12th place finish, under your idea its going to be nigh on impossible to get back on top by the end of the season.

A driver/team should not be penalised over one or two bad days.

Lower the 1st place finish from 25 points to something like 22 and the effect of the same driver winning multiple times will be easier to combat.
 

Bungle73

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2. Combine Q1-Q2 into one 30 minute session and replace Q3 with individual single lap runs for the top ten with an extra set of super-soft tyres provided for that one lap.
What for? Why have a massive 30 minute qualifying segment? All that would happen is that no one would go out until the final 10 minutes or so. That's what happened in the old days, and why the qualifying format was changed in the first place.

Also, why the hell do you want to bring back single lap qualifying? That was the most boring qualifying format ever.

There's not much wrong with the way it works now.
 

David

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Lower the 1st place finish from 25 points to something like 22 and the effect of the same driver winning multiple times will be easier to combat.

Either that or use the FIM points system (MotoGP, WSBK and BSB) which is:

25-20-16-13-12-10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1
 

JamesRowden

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I came up with the following point scoring systems to have the same exponential nature of the 90's scoring system but also to allow more points scorers:

Top Ten
1st 60
2nd 40
3rd 25
4th 16
5th 10
6th 6
7th 4
8th 3
9th 2
10th 1

Top Twenty
1st 6000
2nd 4000
3rd 2500
4th 1600
5th 1000
6th 600
7th 400
8th 250
9th 160
10th 100
11th 60
12th 40
13th 25
14th 16
15th 10
16th 6
17th 4
18th 3
19th 2
20th 1
 

hairyhandedfool

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But its easier to make up and limit the damage of those 25 points over the coming races as it is now.

If a top rate driver has several wins and has a total point score of say 6 points for 6 wins but then has a DNF and a 12th place finish, under your idea its going to be nigh on impossible to get back on top by the end of the season.

A driver/team should not be penalised over one or two bad days.

Lower the 1st place finish from 25 points to something like 22 and the effect of the same driver winning multiple times will be easier to combat.

Take the first ten races of this season (non-points finishes/retirements in red)....

Alo: 2-22-1-8-1-7-2-3-4-4 = 54 (actual points-135)
Ham: 5-3-3-5-12-4-3-4-5-1 = 45 (actual points-124)
Rai: 1-7-2-2-2-10-9-5-2-2 = 42 (actual points-132)
Vet: 3-1-4-1-4-2-1-21-1-3 = 41 (actual points-172)

Compared to the points they gained over the season....

Alo: 95 = 2nd (actual points-242 = 2nd)
Ham: 113 = 3rd (actual points-189 = 4th)
Rai: 113 = * (actual points-183 = 5th)
Vet: 50 = 1st (actual points-397 = 1st)

*There are obvious issues (I didn't say it was perfect!) Raikonnen didn't finish the season, but putting his results with Kovalainen would score 142 (Kovalainen didn't score a point in his two races so the actual points is still 183) putting them 6th overall.
 

GodAtum

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Anyone going to buy tickets for next year? tempted by the f1 Paddock club with pit lane access lol.
 

GB

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Wen't to my first F1 race this year (Austin) and loved every minute of it...sorely tempted to go again :p Paddock would be very nice but well out of my price range!
 

Liam

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Why dish out points to everyone? I remember when getting a point was something that required hard work and was something to be celebrated. Remember Webber in Melbourne 2002? Gene holding off Eddie Irvine at Nurburg 1999?
 

90sWereBetter

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So it's confirmed, Maldonado is indeed a Lotus driver for 2014.

I'm actually really pleased by this, not only because I like Pastor and he's got heaps of talent (as 2012 showed when he wasn't crashing), but the rage emanating from the internet and F1 websites because of this announcement is BIBLICAL. :p:lol:

Here's hoping Lotus build a great car, and Grosjean becomes a world champion. :D
 

Bungle73

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So it's confirmed, Maldonado is indeed a Lotus driver for 2014.

I'm actually really pleased by this, not only because I like Pastor and he's got heaps of talent (as 2012 showed when he wasn't crashing), but the rage emanating from the internet and F1 websites because of this announcement is BIBLICAL. :p:lol:

Here's hoping Lotus build a great car, and Grosjean becomes a world champion. :D

But Nico Hulkenburg deserved the drive more. Maldonado only got it because of the money he brings.
 

90sWereBetter

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But Nico Hulkenburg deserved the drive more. Maldonado only got it because of the money he brings.

You may say that but remember, Maldonado has more wins that Hulk has so far. ;)

But on a serious note, a huge amount of people think Maldonado is just a rubbish pay-driver. Yes, he does have a load of moneybags behind him, but he is talented and quick as hell when he puts his mind to it. I think Lotus will get the best out of him, considering how Grosjean's come good this season.

And really, it was a choice of "sign Hulkenberg and go bankrupt", or "sign Pastor and stay on the grid". I know what option I'd take.

Besides, Force India are likely to have a line-up of Hulkenberg and Perez now. it's not as if like Hulkenberg isn't gonna be on the grid because he missed the Lotus seat. Who knows, the Force India might be the best car on the grid next season. :lol:
 

WillPS

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I don't really get why people were so anti-Grosjean to begin with. From my perspective he's always had a more interesting driving style, and it's drivers like him that make F1 worth watching.
 

David

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I don't really get why people were so anti-Grosjean to begin with. From my perspective he's always had a more interesting driving style, and it's drivers like him that make F1 worth watching.

I don't think many people have been anti-Grosjean, as his speed and talent have never been doubted. It's just that his judgement of situations was somewhat lacking before this season Similar to what Vettel was like a few years ago).

With Maldonado, it's a bit different. Yes, he has got some talent, as he is a race winner on merit, but his temperment is questionable. If the red mist descends, he does use his car as a weapon.
 

Bungle73

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I don't really get why people were so anti-Grosjean to begin with. From my perspective he's always had a more interesting driving style, and it's drivers like him that make F1 worth watching.

Because Grosjean was a one-man demolition derby. In fact he was downright dangerous. Look what almost happened to Alonso. Thankfully, he's calmed down a bit since then.
 

DownSouth

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Same as what Hamilton, Vettel and Maldonado used to be, and which also afflicted Senna, Schumacher and Hakkinen early on in their careers. All of the drivers with brilliant potential go through that early in their careers.
 

Liam

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http://www.fia.com/formula-one-regulation-changes

Some interesting stuff, most notably this:

• Points for the last race

Double drivers’ and constructors’ points will be awarded at the final race of the Formula One season in order to maximise focus on the Championship until the end of the campaign.

These changes are immediately applicable, given the mandate assigned to the FIA President at the last World Motor Sport Council meeting, held on 4 December in Paris.

FIA Formula One Press Office

I'm a little it speechless at this, all races should be equal, regardless of calendar position.

I like the driver numbers though, seems to be a great marketing tool for the sport and the teams.
 

90sWereBetter

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And F1 goes further down the toilet. Instead of fixing the fundamental problems, the FIA are implementing more gimmicks. Double points at the final race is just a joke.

Only good thing that might come from this is the promise of a budget cap. Except the fact that's gonna cause so much politicising and bickering next season, probably to the extent that it gets shelved and forgotten about. :|

I mean, I'm already more hyped up for BTCC next season than F1, and I'm gonna be following IndyCar and V8 Supercars closely in 2014. My interest level in F1 is plummeting fast, and I know I'm not the only one. What a sad display. :|
 
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