Waterloo from Berks/Surrey

Hi all,

My OH & I are looking to relocate to the Berks or Surrey area and I'm trying to see which train lines are the best options for coming into Canary Wharf from the SW. My target is sub 45mins and clearly areas will determine how far my house purchasing budget will go (let's say £450k for big 3 or 4bed detached).

I appreciate all the areas inside the M25 and just outside are outside my budget with fast lines like Reading, Woking, etc. possible but the areas do not suit my OH's expectations - she wants: leafy, countryside, quiet & space.

Currently I see Fleet, Farnborough, Guiildford, etc. as possible stations (house availability permitting) but I'm more interested in knowing about "future potentials", e.g. Wokingham train station has just had an upgrade so will NR look to improve the line in the future to reduce train times into Waterloo?

Also, what other stations/areas, which meet the OH standards above, are worth considering within the time constraints?

I've also considered looking at Kent area coming into London Bridge for Canary Wharf but am restricted to being within 30mins of Wokingham where she has a network of friends.

Any thoughts, opinions, advice would be very helpful!!

Thnx,
AJ.

There are significant changes in the pipeline out of Waterloo but these are to o with longer trains (and perhaps the SW access to Heathrow, if that ever happens, can't remember what it's called).

I don't foresee much happening in the way of journey time reductions - on the Reading line, the only way would be cutting out intermediate stops, as without doing that there's little point looking at speeds over junctions (like Wokingham). The main line is pretty much unrestricted already.

Agree, everything published is about capacity. In terms of Wokingham - Waterloo there's just a couple of extra trains in each peak period (in the peak flow direction) pencilled in as part of the current changes resulting from the extra stock. (i.e. the 458/5 s and 456s arriving.)

By 2019 Wokingham should be seeing 10 car services rather than the current 8 cars, but I can't see speed increasing as there's almost nowhere for fast trains to overtake...

So the changes at WAT for "longer trains" - assuming that means more carriages from various destinations so more seats available but I would assume this also depends on the route as other stations along the route would need to be able to entertain the increase in carriages, so are there known routes for this?

- or do you mean "longer trains" as in, farther away trains?

The main reason I'm asking this forum questions is that I believe you guys have the knowledge of things like restriced/unrestricted lines whereas I don't. Locale for the OH is something I can cover myself but I'm looking for your expertise on stations to/from WAT or LBG to get me to WCY.

Thnx
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So the changes at WAT for "longer trains" - assuming that means more carriages from various destinations so more seats available but I would assume this also depends on the route as other stations along the route would need to be able to entertain the increase in carriages, so are there known routes for this?

- or do you mean "longer trains" as in, farther away trains?

The main reason I'm asking this forum questions is that I believe you guys have the knowledge of things like restriced/unrestricted lines whereas I don't. Locale for the OH is something I can cover myself but I'm looking for your expertise on stations to/from WAT or LBG to get me to WCY.

Thnx
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Thanks swt_passenger

So what about other stations in the SW area that could meet the <45mins target?

And what's the specifics of the Thameslink which shows Guildford going into Lon Bridge - how does that work?!

In all seriousness I would look at Slough. If you go to the South side, you could just about claim you live in Eton! Slough is shortly to benefit from Crossrail, and house prices there will rocket once it opens. You have the choice of two lines, the Windsor & Eton Riverside service to Waterloo, and the Great Western mainline to Paddington. The disadvantages include the proximity of the Heathrow flightpath - and the fact it's Slough!

Staines is reasonable value for Southwest London, with access to Runnymede and Windsor Great Park for the countryside requirement. Plus it has four fastish trains an hour to Waterloo. The town centre's not bad either and the riverside is particularly nice.

Trains heading to Waterloo from Wokingham start from Reading, which for the SWT services is a terminus. There are no known plans for SWT to run any further, 'longer trains' definitely means 10 cars rather than 8. Stations between Virginia Water and Reading are all due for platform lengthening to allow for longer trains, this is yet to be confirmed (that should happen by March) but work is planned for the April 2014 - Mar 2019 period. Reading (southern) is already 12 car capable.

If house prices are an issue then you will get a lot more for your money around Fleet/ Farnborough than you will in the Guildford area etc plus there are excellent fast trains to/from both Fleet and Farnborough into Waterloo as it is prime commuter land.

Cant comment on the Reading area but I think that is even cheaper.

Hi

I have recently commuted to Canary W from Camberley. Any options using the Windsor/Reading lines you are likely to find to be very slow and crowded. SWT aren't promising 10 coach services until end 2014. Farnborough is a better, faster option with better services although more expensive. Investment currently taking place there (in common with Fleet and other stns) amounts to improvements to car parking.

Hope this helps.

Barclay said:

In all seriousness I would look at Slough. If you go to the South side, you could just about claim you live in Eton! Slough is shortly to benefit from Crossrail, and house prices there will rocket once it opens. You have the choice of two lines, the Windsor & Eton Riverside service to Waterloo, and the Great Western mainline to Paddington. The disadvantages include the proximity of the Heathrow flightpath - and the fact it's Slough!

Staines is reasonable value for Southwest London, with access to Runnymede and Windsor Great Park for the countryside requirement. Plus it has four fastish trains an hour to Waterloo. The town centre's not bad either and the riverside is particularly nice.

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Thanks Barclay!
When I put my "sensible" hat on there are many places like Slough & Staines that make sense however my OH can't find that hat and her requests for "following me" with my career is to live in a quintessential town or have one on our doorstep limits me from the Staines/Slough types ((no disrespect to members from these areas)) - think Farnham, Guildford, etc. as those are the types she has her heart set on but not exactly ideal for my commute

For Canary Wharf, isn't it worth thinking about Crossrail? According to the Crossrail website, Maidenhead to Canary Wharf is scheduled at 54 minutes. Maidenhead and Twyford are both relatively close to Wokingham.

Even currently using the Bakerloo and Jubilee is just an hour from Maidenhead to Canary Wharf at peak times. This is from the Transport Direct website.

Farnham's lovely (not that I'm biased...), but about an hour from Waterloo, and then you've still got to get to Canary Wharf.

MarlowDonkey said:

According to the Crossrail website, Maidenhead to Canary Wharf is scheduled at 54 minutes. Maidenhead and Twyford are both relatively close to Wokingham

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And getting the Great Western services to Paddington and changing to Crossrail there should be even faster.

Depends on how leafy you want to get and how far you're willing to travel to the train station. Both Fleet and Farnborough have fast trains (about 40-50 minutes) to Waterloo. However finding somewhere leafy could be hard close to the station (bearing in mind parking at stations along this section of line can be a nightmare). Conversely Hook is 60 minutes from Waterloo but most of the houses are located within a 20 minute walk of the station, so your total journey time could be better than slightly closer in.

It also depends what other facilities you or your OH are looking for. For instance the Schools in Hart (Fleet, Hook and Winchfeild) tend to be better than those in Rushmoor (Farnborough & Aldershot). Shopping varies a lot as well, for instance Farnborough is OK, but has close competition from Aldershot and Camberley (also OK), whilst Basingstoke tends to be a bit better as there's not other towns overly close.

There's lots of groups (i.e. fitness, sports, religion, etc.) in all the locations, but small places like Hartley Wintney (near to Winchfeild) tend to have more of a village feel, so easier to feel part of the community quicker than in some of the larger settlements.

The other thing to look out for is what developments are being proposed for an area.

Guildford - too expensive, avoid.

Woking - http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-27084312.html 28 minutes to Waterloo
New Haw - http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-27331104.html 37 minutes to Waterloo
Staines - http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-27796221.html?premiumA=true 37 minutes to Waterloo (check for flooding!!!)

Also get a bike, somewhere like this:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-26893362.html

is a very easy cycle ride to either Woking or West Byfleet stations, off-road along the surfaced Basingstoke Canal towpath

This one likewise for either Brookwood or Woking stations

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-42170012.html

See this is why I'm asking you guys!!!

Firstly, thanks for all the input.

So, re: Staines, Slough, Maidenhead, etc. - I won't swing these past the OH.

Brookwood, Winchfield, Hook, Hartley Witney, etc. are all ++ for her
Farnborough, Fleet & Basingstoke are a + for her and can be good for me so we've looked at these mostly but yes my concern is how busy they get and will I get a seat.

I'm not too au fait on Crossrail, hence why I logged into this forum - the mention of GW Railway and changing at stops is a complete unknown to me so if anyone has further info (or indeed a site I can read/use to calculate journeys when CR is complete) then please do send it on?!

Thanks again folks!

You wont achieve your 45min target to the Wharf from the SWT area outside the M25. The best you will do is about 1hr15 from Farnborough. You have the (very crowded) Jubilee line to deal with once you get to Waterloo.

Good luck.

Yep the Jubilee line is a nightmare boarding at Waterloo. I reckon you'd be better off in Essex.

246980uk said:

the mention of GW Railway and changing at stops is a complete unknown to me so if anyone has further info (or indeed a site I can read/use to calculate journeys when CR is complete) then please do send it on?!

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One of the tricks known to Paddington commuters heading to the City was to take a fast train to/from Paddington (non-stop to/from Maidenhead) and then walk five minutes or so to Lancaster Gate to get the Central Line direct to St Pauls or Bank. This saved having to rely on the Bakerloo line and what always seemed a long trek underground at Oxford Circus. Crossrail is running through Central London and the City parallel to the Central Line with the added bonus of Canary Wharf. So provided peak hour fast trains from Maidenhead survive Electrification and Crossrail, it should be possible to get to Paddington in twenty five minutes and change there to Crossrail.

Proposed Crossrail service patterns are at
http://www.crossrailnews.co.uk/nav/timetable.php

It looks as if the CrossRail service is going to be stopping at all stations from Maidenhead, but a half hourly service of fasts, even off-peak, is going to be retained or restored. The existing off-peak service from Maidenhead to Paddington is every fifteen minutes, but stops at West Drayton and Hayes as well as the natural stops of Slough and Ealing. Some stop at Taplow, Burnham, Langley, Iver and Southall as well.

There are rumblings in the Thames Valley about getting crossrail extended back to Reading (hence Twyford) but may or may not happen.

May be worth a look at Twyford - fairly close to Wokingham (hourly bus service weekday daytimes if that's an issue) but has a reasonable number of shops including a Waitrose. Trains to Reading for major shopping etc.

As others have said, I doubt many enhancements to the Waterloo - Reading service. There was a suggestion a few years back to up it to 4 trains per hour, and there was a lot of fuss from local authorities along the line because of the amount / proportion of time that level crossings would be down.

CatfordCat said:

As others have said, I doubt many enhancements to the Waterloo - Reading service.

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I could see commuter traffic shifting from that line to the Great Western main line post Crosslink. Assuming a pattern of fast peak services to and from Twyford and Maidenhead, the ability to change to a much faster version of the Central Line in Crossrail at Paddington could make travelling via Paddington more attractive than via Waterloo for those heading to the City or Canary Wharf.

Definitely agree on the Crossrail comments. I would look at Maidenhead or Twyford (smaller, slightly further out). Both have fast trains to Paddington where you'll be able to get Crossrail or the Tube.

Obviously I'm biased but have a look at Caversham. Plenty of nice houses a 15-20 minute walk from Reading station (very frequent to Pad, 30 mins), on the edge of the Chilterns and 15 mins or so from Wokingham and Henley.

Kent (on HS1) or Essex will be best for Canary Wharf but if they're vetoed then that's that 45 minutes door to door is unrealistic I think- if that's the rail leg then no problem.

Don't rule out the line out of Paddington. Yes, Slough has an image problem but parts of Burnham towards Burnham Beeches are very nice, Maidenhead riverside is also worth looking at. There are several places between the Paddington line and the Waterloo which would be worth looking at. The station car parks at Maidenhead tend to be well used but there is a council run long term car park which is almost as near as the cheaper rail operated car park. Reading offers a good shopping centre (but I wouldn't want to live there). Maidenhead has plans for the shopping centre but we'll have to wait and see. Windsor shopping is a bit touristy but it also has some more interesting independents.

Disclosure: As a child I had friends who moved from Chiswick (down by the river) to Maidenhead (near Boulters Lock) and that (nice) was my impression of Maidenhead until I went to live there in the very late 70s. I then discovered that on the far side of the town there are several small social housing estates and some light industry. We lived there for near 30 years. My brother in law lived in Burnham (near the Beeches). I worked (at various times) in Maidenhead, Reading, Windsor and Langley. It's a mixed area in every sense of the word but I wouldn't ignore it especially with the coming of Crossrail.

I'd give Bracknell a serious thought too, it's an hour into Waterloo from there and it's easy enough to drive to Maidenhead and get a train in to Paddington.

Have a look at Ash Vale. It's quite built up but there is lots of open country too and when I have travelled into Waterloo in the rush hour (not commuting just occasionally) the trains are not too bad. 45 minutes to Waterloo.

It takes us half an hour to drive to Wokingham but is even quicker by train from North Camp, which was my commute for several years.

There are quite a lot of private unmade roads which are very quiet. Ours is anyway.

I live about 4 miles east of Reading and commuted to Canary Wharf for 3 days per week over a 2 year period until 2 years ago on the Reading to Waterloo line. Timing wise - it took about 2 hours door to door and I left home at 0730 to miss the Jubilee line crush.

You will always get a seat on the Waterloo train in the morning but you can get squashed. Working on train is possible but you won't find any tables or power sockets. Wifi does not exist. I tried to leave Canary Wharf early to miss evening rush hour. Trains get rammed and standing is often the norm for the journey back to Waterloo.

Getting a fast train from Reading to Paddington is an alternative but you have to then get across London on tube. It takes time and is hassle. Getting on at Maidenhead is an option but you still have to get across London.

For these reasons I opted for the slower Waterloo line and less changes.

Opening of Crossrail will change dynamics completely. Fast train to Paddington then Crossrail to CW will make journey much easier. Trouble is you have to wait until 2018. Buy a house now near Crossrail line and watch property values soar when it opens.

Personally I would not want to commute that distance 5 days a week. I would commute from a station with fast frequent services such as Winchester or Basingstoke. You have to factor in car parking charges as well. Big stations cost a lot. Reading is very expensive because of the quality of service.

Hope this helps.

In the morning peak the trains that are the stopping services from Basingstoke almost become semi-fast, as after Woking they are non-stop to Waterloo, so from Hook/Winchfield journey time is 55-60 minutes, less from Fleet/Farnborough.

Fleet and Farnborough are currently getting multi-storey car parks built, so that may help the parking, but I suspect they will also quickly fill up.

Odiham could also be an option, with relatively close access to Winchfield station.

Thanks everyone for all the info - it is priceless and helps a lot. Let me give you an update on my situation and thinking...

So currently we rent in Winnersh and I get the SW train each morning to Waterloo then Jubilee line to CW. 1hr 20m into WAT morning peak and yes I get a seat but yes it is very crammed (soon after WOK/BCE) so working on the train is difficult. I have tried 6:18am, 6:48am and 7:18am - none of them make a difference. The objective here is to aim for a commute of ~1hr (give or take 5-10mins) which I appreciate is tough because I am restricted by: 1.budget of £450k-£500k to purchase a large 3 or good 4 bed detached ((OH request)), 2. to be within a 30min drive to Wokingham/Crowthorne area ((again OH request as she has network here)) and 3. a nice leafy ((OH)) area with good town/viallge feel to it and good schools to bring our kids up - I don't ask for much do I?!

Going forward, my OH & I will be looking to buy a property and I will only need to be in CW for 3days a week so some might say this commute is acceptable - and they'd be right - but why settle for second best when I don't even know what could be better/worse out there (hence my original post).

What I can see is I have three choices;
1. Target a quick commute so no working on the train and look at Woking/Kent/Essex.
PROS: Commute time during peak <1hr to CW
CONS: Areas to live (either not great for OH or premium kills the budget)

2. Plan for the long-term with Crossrail to be a huge success and aim for quick commute to Paddington, so: Reading/Slough/Maidenhead
PROS: Buying a house now will give great ROI in 2018! but not sure OH will like current area options
CONS: Waiting for 4-5yrs and geting round Lon Tube network b/w now & then

3. Go for the "middle of the road option" which is similar to what I am currently experiencing but perhaps could be improved slightly, i.e. Fleet/Farnborough/Winchfield
PROS: OH would be happy in these areas (and you know what they say about Happy Wife...)
CONS: House prices? Car Parking costs? Don't know the areas.

Have I missed anything or does anyone want to comment on my conclusions - I am very happy to listen to all further insight from you guys...


Thanks again for all the help,
AJ.
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PS. Someone has mentioned Brookwood to me as an option - anyone know if this meets my aims or others that are similar?

Cheers!

Brookwood is OK, just outside Woking/Knaphill, BIG Sainsburys nearby and some nice countryside. Decent service with parking. Cheaper than Woking/Guildford. Big cemetery nearby too.....

Cambo_flyer said:

Brookwood is OK, just outside Woking/Knaphill, BIG Sainsburys nearby and some nice countryside. Decent service with parking. Cheaper than Woking/Guildford. Big cemetery nearby too.....

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Thanks - not sure how handy the cemetery will be

Have a look at Shepperton? Nice riverside, pleasant town centre and Old Shepperton is a gem. It has direct stopping trains to Waterloo, and limited semi-fasts home in the evening peak. Or you could cycle/drive to Walton on Thames which is on the South West mainline and has quick services to Waterloo.

EG - http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-38375809.html - next to the station and within your budget.