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First Great Western to be renamed/reliveried?

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jon0844

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URGH. I think First have done some great things with their trains, but for buses - they haven't got a clue! Those pastel colours just look like the paint has faded and the buses look about ten or twenty years old, even though you can see they're new!

I've always thought Southern trains look washed out and worn, both inside and out (more inside than out, mind) and it's quite important to choose appropriate colours. And if testing things out on a computer, perhaps actually test things out before signing it off and ending up with the above...
 
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tadhatter

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Truronian Coaches (The holiday/private hire part of First Cornwall) use a version of Dynamic Lines - http://www.flickr.com/photos/630927...gGa-dcsomH-8ofggj-8jXfXk-c4jbR7-brt4ur-bkSDVC

You see that looks good!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
URGH. I think First have done some great things with their trains, but for buses - they haven't got a clue! Those pastel colours just look like the paint has faded and the buses look about ten or twenty years old, even though you can see they're new!

I've always thought Southern trains look washed out and worn, both inside and out (more inside than out, mind) and it's quite important to choose appropriate colours. And if testing things out on a computer, perhaps actually test things out before signing it off and ending up with the above...

Train liveries (and bus, lorries and car's for that matter too) need bold strong colours for several reasons. Firstly because they are likely to get dirty and when out and about they will, as you say, always look dirty with pastel shades of a dark colour such as mauve. Secondly, they will weather and naturally fade over time (although I'm guessing that with vinyls this is less of an issue rather than with paint), thirdly going through the wash isn't going to help either. Fourthly, it gives the impression of being proud. A pale colour can almost look like an apology!

There are probably other reasons too but, given the importance of image and branding, then a clean looking vehicle is far better than a dirty or insipid looking thing turning up - even if it is actually clean.

Slightly off topic I also hate white cars. They look like they're still in undercoat and not finished!
 

sprinterguy

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And if testing things out on a computer, perhaps actually test things out before signing it off
Funnily enough, that's precisely my opinion of "dynamic lines". :p Not that it makes one jot of difference in the grand scheme of things as taste is entirely subjective, but I cannot share the positive sentiments towards the dynamic lines livery being shared here: Each successive corporate scheme that First Group have introduced to their trains has only served to make the previous one look better than it was, in my opinion! And I'm rather fond of the new bus livery: Back to proper blocks of colour rather than all those ridiculous swirls and swooshes.
 

transmanche

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If, hypothetically, TfL-controlled buses were almost the *only* traffic on London's roads - a situation much more analogous to railways - then there would not only be no point in having a common colour scheme, but doing so would just make the roads look dull and monotonous - every vehicle would be red!
Although back in the day, LPTB vehicles would have formed a much larger proportion of traffic on London's roads - and they had a common colour scheme.
 

Parallel

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I wouldn't mind a variation of this livery which has just been introduced in Portsmouth:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/40172673@N03/10423501593/in/photolist-gT6aSH-gT5iys-hqHoo6-hWFZ7m-hianRm-hWFZcb-cRKakE

They're even named after navy ships which is something of a western tradition!

Ooh, that does look quite good, very polished and aesthetically pleasing!


I think FGW's dynamic lines livery is probably one of the best around to be honest, the ones on the HSTs look really good. I quite like the ones with all the attractions and place names along the side too, I think that adds a nice regional touch.
 
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And yes FGW have had 5 HST liverys, here is the unique all dynamic lines set
http://www.tauntontrains.co.uk/Archive-Images/43/43004-43009-03-04-06-1Z30-PAD-PENZ-CREECH.jpg

And very smart it looks too in that excellent shot. Thanks.

Why does that HST only have 3 passenger cars?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
..., re-introduce the yellow stripe for first class ....

What TOC have 1st class and don't have a yellow stripe on the top? Is it largly non HSTs?
 
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ash39

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Was the dynamic lines power car a trial or is it still running like that? Looks brilliant! A big improvement over the plain purple ones.
 

starrymarkb

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It was a short set which did a tour of the FGW region with dignitaries for the launch of the franchise in 2006. the vinyled power cars/coaches were then used in standard HST Barbie formations for 18ish months before the MTU/Refurb programme started when they were painted in the final livery. The Power cars used were the prototype MTU Power Cars.

A 150 was also vinyled into 'local lines' shortly after the franchise started.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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A nice touch Northern have added to some of their rolling stock too.

I find it a bit odd to be travelling from Liverpool to Wigan in a train plastered with "Visit Yorkshire" on the side. ;)
On the other hand it used to be amusing seeing one with a giant Ginster's Pasties advert.
 

MrJamesBrown

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It seems like FGW are going to be having their HST's in to fit WiFi so they could be reliveried at the same time.

More importantly the WiFi is going to be free

Link
 

fgwrich

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Truronian Coaches (The holiday/private hire part of First Cornwall) use a version of Dynamic Lines - http://www.flickr.com/photos/630927...gGa-dcsomH-8ofggj-8jXfXk-c4jbR7-brt4ur-bkSDVC

URGH. I think First have done some great things with their trains, but for buses - they haven't got a clue! Those pastel colours just look like the paint has faded and the buses look about ten or twenty years old, even though you can see they're new!

I've always thought Southern trains look washed out and worn, both inside and out (more inside than out, mind) and it's quite important to choose appropriate colours. And if testing things out on a computer, perhaps actually test things out before signing it off and ending up with the above...

Completely agree with the both of you. The new First Bus livery really isn't that good at all, yet Truronian does look good with the Dynamic Lines.

Here by the way is a possibly better view of that Enviro again in the new livery, blank the windows out and you can just about make out the stylised Flying F.
 

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Cruithne3753

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Look, let's get this right. Express coaches should be brown and cream and hauled by "Castles".

Well, 57604 Pendennis Castle is in a rather fetching dark green, so on the Night Riviera Sleeper if nothing else... :)
 
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387star

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Was the dynamic lines power car a trial or is it still running like that? Looks brilliant! A big improvement over the plain purple ones.

Nah the vinyl is awful south west trains 158/9s look lovely whereas fgw units look dingy

The painted hsts and 150/1s with a single shade of blue look much more attractive
 
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Why does that HST only have 3 passenger cars?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


What TOC have 1st class and don't have a yellow stripe on the top? Is it largly non HSTs?

EMT seems to have orange dots on it's HST 1st Class carriages. Quite a few non HST TOCs don't use yellow stripe either, so there is no pattern to follow really.
 

tadhatter

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I wouldn't mind a variation of this livery which has just been introduced in Portsmouth:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/40172673@N03/10423501593/in/photolist-gT6aSH-gT5iys-hqHoo6-hWFZ7m-hianRm-hWFZcb-cRKakE

They're even named after navy ships which is something of a western tradition!

Looks like it's been designed by a 5 year old!!!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Nah the vinyl is awful south west trains 158/9s look lovely whereas fgw units look dingy

The painted hsts and 150/1s with a single shade of blue look much more attractive

It's fairly subjective to be honest. Personally I love it. Think it adds something more to just plain purple which looks ok.
 

Polo Mint

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Completely agree with the both of you. The new First Bus livery really isn't that good at all, yet Truronian does look good with the Dynamic Lines.

Here by the way is a possibly better view of that Enviro again in the new livery, blank the windows out and you can just about make out the stylised Flying F.

I think I see it, but if a brand requires a long explanation then its probably not worth doing. It will be interesting to see what possible alternatives First had in mind, they must have been terrible if they chose that livery.

First could also have used the re-brand to move away from the purple and pink, not move towards lilac.
 

whhistle

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I thought this was old news?

I'm sure I read about a year ago the DfT wanted all lines to be brandless and named to their location much like East Midlands Trains, South West Trains, Cross Country, London Midland (?), Transpennine Express, South Eastern....

The "Horizon Trains" was/is a red herring. Again, I am certain in what would have been the new WC franchise, the government stipulated the line would be known simply as "West Coast".

Maybe I am completely wrong.
 
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Zoe

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The "Horizon Trains" was/is a red herring. Again, I am certain in what would have been the new WC franchise, the government stipulated the line would be known simply as "West Coast".
I have seen it said on here that there was a policy requiring all new franchises to use a generic brand like East Coast or West Coast but I never saw this policy officially stated anywhere.
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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I have seen it said on here that there was a policy requiring all new franchises to use a generic brand like East Coast or West Coast but I never saw this policy officially stated anywhere.

There was no requirement for generic branding in the (scrapped) WC ITT, nor in the current EC ITT draft.
I think it figured in the McNulty report as an example of where industry costs could be saved.
Scotrail has insisted on "Scotrail" generic branding for the current franchise competition, much as now.
Personally I don't think it adds anything. Scotrail is obviously just a made-up name.

If you go abroad there is a tendency for civic local/regional branding (eg on French TER services).
These tend to include city/county/region crests and names and can look very impressive (eg TER Languedoc-Rousillon, or the Dresden city crest on its S-bahn trains).
The UK equivalent would be (eg) Liverpool's crest placed on Merseyrail trains.
For some reason we don't go in for that sort of thing.
 

bnm

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I started this thread after hearing (second hand) some details from a FGW Manager presenting to a rail user group.

This past Sunday, speaking with a more senior FGW bod (Matthew Golton, Bid Director), I came away with the impression that perhaps First Group aren't going to substantively change FGW's name and livery after all.

Smoke and mirrors perhaps. Not quite sure who to believe. A manager responsible for producing publicity, such as timetables, posters, window stickers etc, or a director responsible for franchise bids.
 

cgcenet

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I always thought, or was led to believe, 'One' was rebranded because the DfT told them thr train had to carry the 'National Express' name.
Or maybe it was rebranded because NX realised it was a b***** stupid name.
 

jon0844

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After One, maybe the TSGN could be called 321? (having merged FCC, Southern and a small bit of Southeastern).

The logo could be of the late Ted Rogers giving the finger after having done the '3 to 1' hand sequence the wrong way around, and the trains could be converted into dusty bins (some trains not needing much conversion work at all).

And when all the trains get bunched up in the core during disruption, passengers could be given cryptic clues to decipher and work out if the next train is the one they want to take them home, or just a clapped out bin that's going nowhere.
 

GearJammer

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Looks like it's been designed by a 5 year old!!!

Which bit, the livery or the bus, both look bloody awfull!

If FGW are going to rebrand how about just removing the stripes off the coaching stock so it matches the power cars, whole train in plain blue with 'Great Western' written on each coach.
 
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