OwlMan
Established Member
New tables B, C ,D ,E Group stations & routeing points table.
Example of a new easement :roll:
Example of a new easement :roll:
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New Routeing Guide Released today
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Nice to see they've still not fixed the barking mad situation whereby Worcester to Glasgow is banned from going via the East Coast, but you pretty much always pass through Bromsgrove, yet Bromsgrove to Glasgow is permitted to go via the East Coast. They broke this as from the last 'update' for reasons I simply cannot understand.
Chapeltom
Established Member
Not quite sure how people are supposed to get from SYB or Guide Bridge to Stockport now
Eagle
Established Member
Not quite sure how people are supposed to get from SYB or Guide Bridge to Stockport now
Get the bus
Of course not all of these negative easements are binding, especially if the shortest route is concerned. Here are some nasties:
Leeds to Brighouse via Huddersfield.
Removed by negative easement 700649. This is the fastest route - passengers must now take the Northern stopper which adds 15 minutes
Anywhere via Stansted Airport to Liverpool St.
Would be allowed under 3 mile rule, but disallowed for certain dates by easement 700466 and on all dates by 700455. Almost certainly to stop people using cheaper Elsenham or Audley End tickets for London-Stansted journeys.
The St Albans walk
Can be the shortest and fast route! Culled in negative easement 700441
Faversham to St Pancras via Ebbsfleet
Now the ANY PERMITTED isn't allowed on HS1 according to easement 700436!
PS: Easements 700397 - 700414 all concern banning bonkers routes through Manchester that don't appear to have ever been valid!
Leeds to Brighouse via Huddersfield.
Removed by negative easement 700649. This is the fastest route - passengers must now take the Northern stopper which adds 15 minutes
Anywhere via Stansted Airport to Liverpool St.
Would be allowed under 3 mile rule, but disallowed for certain dates by easement 700466 and on all dates by 700455. Almost certainly to stop people using cheaper Elsenham or Audley End tickets for London-Stansted journeys.
The St Albans walk
Can be the shortest and fast route! Culled in negative easement 700441
Faversham to St Pancras via Ebbsfleet
Now the ANY PERMITTED isn't allowed on HS1 according to easement 700436!
PS: Easements 700397 - 700414 all concern banning bonkers routes through Manchester that don't appear to have ever been valid!
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Of course, none of them are binding courtesy of the statement of the top of every page defining what an easement is
Qwerty133
Established Member
Stalybridge - Guide Bridge remains valid via Manchester. It is the shortest possible route by rail, so there is no need to consult the Routeing Guide, and therefore no need to consult the easements list.
Whether or not Guide Bridge - Stalybridge is valid via Manchester is another matter, but it would be difficult for anyone to claim that the journey can only be made once per week, given that regular* journey opportunities are (only) available via Manchester.
Also negative easements cannot affect routes which are valid under the shortest route or through trains rules.
Whether negative easements can ever be enforced is dubious...
(* Before the pendants disagree with me, most 'normal' passengers are not interested in the far less relevant, and very different, definition of regular, being a service of one train at about 11am on a Friday!).
Whether or not Guide Bridge - Stalybridge is valid via Manchester is another matter, but it would be difficult for anyone to claim that the journey can only be made once per week, given that regular* journey opportunities are (only) available via Manchester.
Easements trump negative easements.
Also negative easements cannot affect routes which are valid under the shortest route or through trains rules.
Whether negative easements can ever be enforced is dubious...
Yep. They'd need DfT approval to change that wording, and they've clearly not got it.
(* Before the pendants disagree with me, most 'normal' passengers are not interested in the far less relevant, and very different, definition of regular, being a service of one train at about 11am on a Friday!).
DJ737
Member
G'day
This easement seems to have affected the Southern mixing deck in a strange way.
If you enter Elsenham to Stansted Airport and specify a stupid via point (ie Doncaster) it returns journeys that do indeed go via Doncaster for only £2.80 or £4.30 if you want to try East Coast 1st class offering.
Cheers
DJ737
Melbourne Australia
hairyhandedfool
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Not quite sure how people are supposed to get from SYB or Guide Bridge to Stockport now
Of the seven tickets available for that journey, six are routed 'Metrolink CTLZ'.:roll:
Stalybridge to Guide bridge is only affected by one easement. Stalybridge to Stockport 'rte Any Permitted' affects one ticket (a single).
Edit: It could be argued that both apply equally so that you can go from Stockport to Stalybridge via Manchester on any ticket that is not routed Any Permitted.
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Eagle
Established Member
Good point, I forgot that was the case for journeys within GM.
Not quite sure how people are supposed to get from SYB or Guide Bridge to Stockport now
Via Huddersfield & Sheffield
Easement 700455 says "Customers travelling from or via Broxbourne to London Liverpool Street and beyond, may not travel via Stansted Airport. This easement applies in both directions."
But you can double back within Group Stations and Stansted Mountfichet and Stansted Airport are part of Stansted Group so you can still go Cambridge-Stansted Mountfichet-Stansted Airport-Broxbourne-London. So whilst it does ban using XC from Audley End to Stansted Airport it doesn't ban travel to the Airport completely...still a pain though.
DJ737
Member
G'day
Yet a search of Elsenham to Stansted Airport sends you via Audley End to connect with the XC service instead of Stansted Mountfitchet (where the beer is better in my opinion)
Fares are £2.80 via Audley End or £2.90 via Stansted Mountfitchet. :roll:
Cheers
DJ737
Melbourne, Australia
Yet a search of Elsenham to Stansted Airport sends you via Audley End to connect with the XC service instead of Stansted Mountfitchet (where the beer is better in my opinion)
Fares are £2.80 via Audley End or £2.90 via Stansted Mountfitchet. :roll:
Cheers
DJ737
Melbourne, Australia
Not by my reading of the easement you can't, as you still go via the airport and via Broxbourne
Seacook
Member
I expect you will want to hang me for this, but the word you want is pedant.
Tch, there goes my plan to travel via Stansted on a Norwich-London advance.
Yes, it does appear to forbid journeys between London and north of Stansted from going via the airport station, even if you don't break your journey there
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Yeah but an easement surely can't override the double back within station groups can it?
Just go to Tottenham Hale instead and change to LU :]
kieron
Established Member
It's not actually.
The shortest route in calculated by reference to the mileages shown in the National Rail Timetable. Guide Bridge appears on tables 78 and 79 in the current timetable. Stalybridge appears on table 39. I forget where the Stockport-Stalybridge train appears, but no distance is listed for it between those stations.
According to bukitlawang.com, the route via Manchester Piccadilly is shortest. If this is correct (and I can only imagine it being wrong if there's a mistake in the timetable), this should be a valid route based on page 1 of the routeing guide.
And, if not, there is always easement 300433 to confirm Stalybridge-Guide Bridge should fine via Piccadilly. Easement 36 does much the same for Stalybridge-Stockport.
I do not have a clue why the author of easement 700480 didn't spot these.
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hairyhandedfool
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Why not? A negative easement is designed to prohibit any route that would otherwise be valid. It can't affect direct trains and the shortest route (and only the shortest route) because these are in the NRCoC, but that doesn't protect double-back within Routeing Point Groups.
RJ
Established Member
Agreed.
Interesting point though I don't think XC or Abellio would agree! Also it does says to Liverpool Street and beyond and so Woking to Waterbeach for example (my fav ticket to Stansted) would fall foul of the "beyond" statement.
David Goddard
Established Member
Still getting to grips with the routing guide and easements, so please be gentle, but can anyone tell me the point of the following, because as far as I read them, they state the obvious.
030012
Journeys to or from SOuth Greenford, Castle Bar Park, Drayton Green, Hanwell, Acton Mainline, Ealing Broadway, West Ealing, Hayes and Harlington and West Drayton to Reading and beyond may travel via Slough. This easement applies in both directions.
030020
Journeys from Moreton in Marsh, Kingham, Shipton, Ascott under Wychwood, Charlbury, Finstock, Combe and Hanborough to Reading and beyond may travel via Oxford. This easement applies in both direction.
300217
Customers travelling from Maidenhead and Twyford to Newbury and beyond may travel via Reading. This easement applies in both directions.
030012
Journeys to or from SOuth Greenford, Castle Bar Park, Drayton Green, Hanwell, Acton Mainline, Ealing Broadway, West Ealing, Hayes and Harlington and West Drayton to Reading and beyond may travel via Slough. This easement applies in both directions.
030020
Journeys from Moreton in Marsh, Kingham, Shipton, Ascott under Wychwood, Charlbury, Finstock, Combe and Hanborough to Reading and beyond may travel via Oxford. This easement applies in both direction.
300217
Customers travelling from Maidenhead and Twyford to Newbury and beyond may travel via Reading. This easement applies in both directions.
Don't worry, I am yet to meet someone who is conversant with the entire easement list
(We do have a forum member who has memorised the name, and line, of every National Rail station, so maybe he could give it a go...!)
They are necessary for the benefit of booking engines made by extremely poor quality computer programmers employed by companies who make booking/routeing engines, such as Atos Origin. The TOCs are so obsessed with invalidating journeys that they perceive as anomalies and causing revenue abstraction, that they insist that the booking engines go to great lengths to invalidate journeys that the TOCs do not like. This often results in totally valid and legitimate journey opportunities being denied to customers.
Customers who then complain they can't book a ticket are usually ignored, in my experience, but some TOCs do listen, and then request that an easement is introduced to allow the (obvious) routeing to be validated by the over-sensitive booking engines.
It's a ludicrous situation, and one that ultimately the DfT should never have allowed to happen.
There are many valid journey opportunities which have no such easements and passengers find themselves unable to book a ticket for. Some TOCs don't really care!
tannedfrog
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Unfortunately Tottenham Hale doesn't have the same range of tickets as London Terminals
eg Off Peak Return
The easement actually says 'via Broxbourne'. My oversimplification appears to have caused confusion. Sorry.
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