• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Pont Briwet to be closed to trains until 2015 [Update - now reopened as of Sept 2014]

Status
Not open for further replies.

Gareth Marston

Established Member
Joined
26 Jun 2010
Messages
6,231
Location
Newtown Montgomeryshire
Quick question about the temporary working arrangements at Harlech. Do trains arrive on one platform, draw forward into the single line section, turn around and come back into the other platform, so they are in the correct platform for departure, or can they work in/out of the same platform?

were all "bi" on the Cambrian these days....
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
On what basis do you make this rather bold statement?:lol:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


And perhaps those who support / like / believe in railways or merely earn their living from them, need to be prepared. Too late once the closure notices are published.

No-one knows what is being considered behind the scenes, you can be sure that a whole range of options to cut back further the public sector are being discussed. Some people with influence regard railway expenditure as a drain on the public purse - hence the think tank report referred to in an earlier post. What is 'extreme' today can become mainstream very quickly.

Just how many people (in the general population, not this forum) would actually care if the odd withered railway limb was closed? How many councils have already, or are now considering, cutting all their subsidised bus services? Unthinkable once, now far fewer people use buses and of those only a small number use the subsidised services, thus little outcry over their removal.

The fact that passenger numbers and revenue continued to grow meaning subsidy kept coming down has averted any recession induced proposals from rearing their heads far. The railway was cutting costs anyway unlike some other Govt Departments. Certainly for the shorter and medium term this trend will avert any further attacks though I agree all sorts of think tanks etc have their own agendas. Look what happens when we talk about serious investment in rail - HS2!

The S""@ storm@ versus any savings has to be a factor any politician will consider, remember we still have the Central Wales line because of marginals at the time. Research keeps pointing out that over 50% of the population use the railways at some point each year much higher than for buses.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
19,651
Location
Mold, Clwyd
Rubbish!
Do you realise how many of us signallers in Wales have faced or are facing redundancy in the next 5 years?
Or how many track and S&T staff are in the same boat.

Thankfully WAG have realised that encouraging rail useage in ALL areas of Wales has aided local communities, and often encouraged further development.

I stand corrected.
It doesn't alter the problems of slow rural lines though.
 

jones_bangor

Member
Joined
11 Mar 2011
Messages
856
I stand corrected.
It doesn't alter the problems of slow rural lines though.

I don't think anyone is saying any lines are in immediate danger - far from it, the Cambrian will reopen as before.

The point was that if some rabid right wing Tories somehow got total power in Westminster, then the attitude might be that "rural lines can go to hell".

The unfortunate reality for Wales is that the Barnett consequential would apply similar cutbacks in Wales whether we wanted it or not.
 
Last edited:

Gareth Marston

Established Member
Joined
26 Jun 2010
Messages
6,231
Location
Newtown Montgomeryshire
I don't think anyone is saying any lines are in immediate danger - far from it, the Cambrian will reopen as before.

The point was that if some rabid right wing Tories somehow got total power in Westminster, then the attitude might be that "rural lines can go to hell".

The unfortunate reality for Wales is that the Barnett consequential would apply similar cutbacks in Wales whether we wanted it or not.

My local RUG arranged for our local Tory MP and AM to visit Machynlleth depot a couple of years back both were somewhat surprised to discover the number of rail workers in their constituency.
 

robschopper

Member
Joined
21 Mar 2011
Messages
47
023.jpg

025.jpg

Good luck gettting anywhere north of Barmouth for the next few weeks. This was the situation at Llanaber this afternoon.
 

Baxenden Bank

Established Member
Joined
23 Oct 2013
Messages
4,017
My local RUG arranged for our local Tory MP and AM to visit Machynlleth depot a couple of years back both were somewhat surprised to discover the number of rail workers in their constituency.

That is what I mean by being prepared. Get the message out there, now, as to how important railways are / can be to society, even to non-users (lorries off roads, less commuter traffic). A constant stream of good news stories to counter the roads lobby with its very effective lobbying.

Which brings us back to this topic - £19.4m for the new bridge, of which £6.2 from Network Rail, all of which opening by December 2013!
 

merlodlliw

Established Member
Joined
8 Mar 2009
Messages
5,852
Location
Wrexham/ Denbighshire /Flintshire triangle
That is what I mean by being prepared. Get the message out there, now, as to how important railways are / can be to society, even to non-users (lorries off roads, less commuter traffic). A constant stream of good news stories to counter the roads lobby with its very effective lobbying.

Which brings us back to this topic - £19.4m for the new bridge, of which £6.2 from Network Rail, all of which opening by December 2013!

Agree with your points, we lobby our MPs & AMs all the time,so its always on the agenda,without our lobbying I doubt the Wrexham redouble(half of it) would have gone ahead. The road transport lobby have well paid people,who seem to get onto every committee up here and attend every open political meeting,I have noticed the same woman defending road transport at many of the meetings I attend, difference is,shes paid to be there.

Did you mean 2015?,one could say Network Rail are putting back some of the revenue it took in traffic tolls over the bridge.
 
Last edited:

Baxenden Bank

Established Member
Joined
23 Oct 2013
Messages
4,017
.

Did you mean 2015?,one could say Network Rail are putting back some of the revenue it took in traffic tolls over the bridge.

The date quoted is in one of the documents I downloaded (yesterday) from the Gwynedd Council website - obviously things have slipped.

A previous post in this thread refers to the lack of any published dates for completion of the various phases of the project. Very poor in my opinion. Perhaps more detail is available locally i.e. to those directly affected rather than casual observers such as myself but I would have thought that people deserved to know when the rail bridge was planned to be completed, ditto the road bridge and linked road improvements.
 

PHILIPE

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Nov 2011
Messages
13,472
Location
Caerphilly
Wehave still had no "official" announcements re state of play from ATW, Welsh Government (still on holiday ?) or any other rail related bodies.
 

snowball

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2013
Messages
7,714
Location
Leeds
Presumably it will take some time for the many parties involved to discuss the prospects for accelerating construction of the new bridge. To start with there's WAG, Gwynedd CC, NR, ATW, Hochtief (the contractors building it), the consulting engineers who designed it and are supervising the contract, ... .
 

6Gman

Established Member
Joined
1 May 2012
Messages
8,420
Nobody has really addressed the McNulty demand to reduce the railway's costs.
Within the current W&B franchise everything is stuck in aspic circa 2003.
In 2018 a whole new set of economic parameters will apply, whoever is in power in Westminster and Cardiff.
The government(s) are going to have to square a number of circles about cost/revenue/subsidy/development to arrive at what is affordable for the 2018-25 period.
I think the rural extremities have serious problems.
How many times can the Conwy Valley line be repaired before somebody queries the value of a 45mph line with no freight, which is disrupted for weeks at a time every year?
After improvements there is a parallel (faster) road along the whole route.
Similar questions for the Central Wales line and maybe others.

I dearly love the Blaenau branch, but it is very difficult to see the justification for continuing subsidy.
 

snowball

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2013
Messages
7,714
Location
Leeds
Would the annual infrastructural costs involving a heritage railway operation on that line be far too great to bear ? It is ideally placed for a heritage railway.

I would just about to say that I imagine the Ffestiniog would like the idea of taking it over. Maybe they'd want to reduce its gauge, and run through trains from Llandudno Junction to Porthmadog via Blaenau.
 
Last edited:

Baxenden Bank

Established Member
Joined
23 Oct 2013
Messages
4,017
Would the annual infrastructural costs involving a heritage railway operation on that line be far too great to bear ? It is ideally placed for a heritage railway.

If it was the FR, they could also extend down the closed route to the power station siding at Trawsfynydd!

Caernarfon to Blaenau then split to Llandudno Junction or Trawsfynydd. Now that would be a narrow gauge network to behold!

Reparding the subject matter. Taken from the press release by the bridge contractor:
HOCHTIEF (UK) Construction is a fully owned subsidiary of HOCHTIEF Solution AG. Renowned for engineering excellence and innovative solutions, the company specializes in complex market segments such as Transportation, Energy, Marine Works, Tunnelling, Building and Civil and Structural Engineering. Operating from Swindon, the division provides its customers with a reliable quality service and currently employs more than 150 people.

What does that actually mean, never mind its accuracy in the current situation!
 
Last edited:

Llanigraham

On Moderation
Joined
23 Mar 2013
Messages
6,103
Location
Powys
Wehave still had no "official" announcements re state of play from ATW, Welsh Government (still on holiday ?) or any other rail related bodies.

Perhaps because at the present time they are somewhat more concerned with dealing with the massive amount of damage elsewhere within the Principality!!<(
 

Llanigraham

On Moderation
Joined
23 Mar 2013
Messages
6,103
Location
Powys
The term "for the foreseeable future" is quite common when a Traffic Regulation Order is issued (as in this case). It means that the Authority do not have to keep renewing it, and therefore publishing the Notice every time it runs out.
 

Rich McLean

Established Member
Joined
6 Feb 2012
Messages
1,684
Cambrian Coast
Buses replace trains between Machynlleth and Aberystwyth/Pwllheli in both directions.

Trains only running as far as Machynlleth then?
 

OxtedL

Established Member
Associate Staff
Quizmaster
Joined
23 Mar 2011
Messages
2,570
Indeed, they haven't been running further than Machynlleth for a couple of days Paul, unless you have some source that contradicts this.
 

Llanigraham

On Moderation
Joined
23 Mar 2013
Messages
6,103
Location
Powys
ATW web site says that the only trains running on the Cambrian this afternnon are between Salop and Machy.
Aber line is said to be blocked ar Borth due to flooding, and I suspect Dovey Junct.
North line is closed at Pont Brewit and Towyn, as we know, and perhaps Dovey Junct.
Bustitution elsewhere.

Rumours in town here that there could also be problems near Welshpool.
Looks like I might be in the car to my medical tomorrow!
 

Rich McLean

Established Member
Joined
6 Feb 2012
Messages
1,684
ATW web site says that the only trains running on the Cambrian this afternnon are between Salop and Machy.
Aber line is said to be blocked ar Borth due to flooding, and I suspect Dovey Junct.
North line is closed at Pont Brewit and Towyn, as we know, and perhaps Dovey Junct.
Bustitution elsewhere.

Rumours in town here that there could also be problems near Welshpool.
Looks like I might be in the car to my medical tomorrow!

Aber - Machy just re-opened
 

Gareth Marston

Established Member
Joined
26 Jun 2010
Messages
6,231
Location
Newtown Montgomeryshire
Presumably it will take some time for the many parties involved to discuss the prospects for accelerating construction of the new bridge. To start with there's WAG, Gwynedd CC, NR, ATW, Hochtief (the contractors building it), the consulting engineers who designed it and are supervising the contract, ... .

No one will go public on this but May 14 is being floated as a target of an accelerated opening providing weather and other fluvial conditions are favourable.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I dearly love the Blaenau branch, but it is very difficult to see the justification for continuing subsidy.

UK currently spends £4 billion of public money on rail out of budget of £720 Billion that's about 0.6% and passenger growth and fare increases will see that smaller by next parliament when if elected Osborne is looking to cut 3 to 4 percent. Rail could well escape any cuts.
 

merlodlliw

Established Member
Joined
8 Mar 2009
Messages
5,852
Location
Wrexham/ Denbighshire /Flintshire triangle
Would the annual infrastructural costs involving a heritage railway operation on that line be far too great to bear ? It is ideally placed for a heritage railway.

It will have to be closed first,by Welsh Government,most of the line is in Plaids constituency,so it wont close,

I dont see an heritage railway ever taking it on,too much flood risks.

On a better note Wrexham Council have given the Super Prison outline planning approval this evening. 14 for 1 against. Conditions include improved travel infrastructure.
 

Gareth Marston

Established Member
Joined
26 Jun 2010
Messages
6,231
Location
Newtown Montgomeryshire
I dearly love the Blaenau branch, but it is very difficult to see the justification for continuing subsidy.

Do you know how much that subsidy is?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Would the annual infrastructural costs involving a heritage railway operation on that line be far too great to bear ? It is ideally placed for a heritage railway.

And what are these compared to what's currently being spent?
 

snowball

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2013
Messages
7,714
Location
Leeds
No one will go public on this but May 14 is being floated as a target of an accelerated opening providing weather and other fluvial conditions are favourable.

Just realised that "May 14" means "May 2014", not "14th May", answering my question which was "You mean this year?"!
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top