robschopper
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First half of one unit loaded onto Alley's vehicle at Barmouth today. There are some photos on various FB pages, but not mine, so I won't link to them.
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Pont Briwet to be closed to trains until 2015 [Update - now reopened as of Sept 2014]
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Arglwydd Golau
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Just seen a pic on FB of two lowloaders carrying unit travelling through Bontddu (between Barmouth and Dolgellau)
The BBC have reported the removal of the trains online. Looks like they're on the way to Chester.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-25743400
From the article: The spokesman added: "The units have been will undergo routine safety checks and will be put back into operation elsewhere on the network."
Interesting.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-25743400
From the article: The spokesman added: "The units have been will undergo routine safety checks and will be put back into operation elsewhere on the network."
Interesting.
merlodlliw
Established Member
I wonder what the route to Chester is,Appreciate North Wales & Cheshire Police have to be informed along with a few County Councils en route
later I presume the low loaders will pass through either Flintshire or Wrexham in the night due to enormous amounts of daytime traffic in both Counties.
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0B00
Member
From the local rag:
West Wales regional AM Joyce Watson will meet Network Rail representatives next week to discuss line closures, in the wake of recent storms.
Gale force winds and torrential rainfall earlier this month combined with high tides to cause significant damage right across the Welsh rail network.
Two of the hardest hit lines were Aberdovey to Pwllheli and between Llanelli and Carmarthen.
The line closures caused, continue to cause, widespread disruption in mid and west Wales, Mrs Watson said:
I am aware there have been significant problems with transport along the Cambrian coast including to and from some schools and Pwllheli college.
Carmarthen to Llanelli is a very busy line, with lots of people travelling to work in Swansea the closure caused considerable inconvenience.
The storms were severe, yes, but they were not exceptional we must expect similar weather conditions in coming years. Therefore I have requested an urgent meeting with Network Rail to discuss what more can be done to protect these lines from the sort of damage and destruction that we have seen this month.
Llanelli to Carmarthen reopened on Tuesday (14 January) after damage to the sea-wall and erosion under the track at Ferryside closed the line for several days. The line between Dovey Junction and Pwllheli will remain closed for the foreseeable future due to debris and damage to a river bridge at Llandecwyn.
The Cambrian Coast line around Cardigan Bay took the full impact of storm, suffering damage at multiple locations. At Llanaber the beach protection was breached and the track bed was washed away resulting in extensive rail ballast loss and significant amounts of debris, including beach shingle and boulders, littering the line. Additionally, a large section of the concrete protection was undermined. There was also significant damage to the railway further south at Sandilands, north of Tywyn.
Mrs Watson will meet Network Rail representatives at the National Assembly on Tuesday (21 January).
West Wales regional AM Joyce Watson will meet Network Rail representatives next week to discuss line closures, in the wake of recent storms.
Gale force winds and torrential rainfall earlier this month combined with high tides to cause significant damage right across the Welsh rail network.
Two of the hardest hit lines were Aberdovey to Pwllheli and between Llanelli and Carmarthen.
The line closures caused, continue to cause, widespread disruption in mid and west Wales, Mrs Watson said:
I am aware there have been significant problems with transport along the Cambrian coast including to and from some schools and Pwllheli college.
Carmarthen to Llanelli is a very busy line, with lots of people travelling to work in Swansea the closure caused considerable inconvenience.
The storms were severe, yes, but they were not exceptional we must expect similar weather conditions in coming years. Therefore I have requested an urgent meeting with Network Rail to discuss what more can be done to protect these lines from the sort of damage and destruction that we have seen this month.
Llanelli to Carmarthen reopened on Tuesday (14 January) after damage to the sea-wall and erosion under the track at Ferryside closed the line for several days. The line between Dovey Junction and Pwllheli will remain closed for the foreseeable future due to debris and damage to a river bridge at Llandecwyn.
The Cambrian Coast line around Cardigan Bay took the full impact of storm, suffering damage at multiple locations. At Llanaber the beach protection was breached and the track bed was washed away resulting in extensive rail ballast loss and significant amounts of debris, including beach shingle and boulders, littering the line. Additionally, a large section of the concrete protection was undermined. There was also significant damage to the railway further south at Sandilands, north of Tywyn.
Mrs Watson will meet Network Rail representatives at the National Assembly on Tuesday (21 January).
Isn't it rather obvious that, short of re-routing or similarly massive expense, there is not much you can do to protect the lines from damage.
What you can do though is to gear up for fixing damage quickly, instead of slowly. And upgrade the p-way and signalling so that they are amenable to rapid repair.
Baxenden Bank
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I'm sorry, but I can't help but think that they are dragging their feet on this one.
If nothing else there should be some idea by now of how long repairs will take.
Perhaps because the line was part closed anyway, they have simply taken the easy option and decided to run buses throughout with no hurry to put things right. Was there a unit shortage looming elsewhere in the franchise?
If nothing else there should be some idea by now of how long repairs will take.
Perhaps because the line was part closed anyway, they have simply taken the easy option and decided to run buses throughout with no hurry to put things right. Was there a unit shortage looming elsewhere in the franchise?
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YorkshireBear
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Exactly. That is where all attention regarding infrastructure resilience should be made. As we can't afford to stop it we need to be able to recover quickly. I believe that is going to be the solution at Cowley Bridge along with a bit of river deepening.
merlodlliw
Established Member
Many AMs from the area will meet NR next Tuesday,NR have been summoned to attend & explain the situation.
YorkshireBear
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I am sure Network Rail will present a slide show of the pictures of the sea and the damage done.
The bridge is more there fault but it looks like they are responding quite quickly to it. I think it was always very ambitious to drive piles next to an old bridge but i'm only a student engineer what do i know.
Rich McLean
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I am now under the impression that the entire line will be closed until they can get the bridge up by the late spring (recent target), and re-open it all at the same time
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Are you referring to Pont Briwet here, as the old bridge surely will never carry a rail service again.
Rich McLean
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By 'until they get the new bridge up' I meant until the new bridge at Pont Briwet has been built. If Network Rail are aiming to get the new bridge up by May, they may well put all effort into that, then repair the rest of the line for a completion date in May, then re-open the entire line at the same time
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
But surely they will not disregard the storm-damaged line sections down the line by "putting all effort into the new bridge" with their available manpower and resources. Those damaged line sections need addressing as quickly as possible.
So... have the initial claims made in this thread, that the bridge would be closed for 18 months and that it was not possible to speed up the work, now been shown to be uninformed speculation? As always with these Welsh threads, I'm finding it very difficult to disentangle the facts from the rants.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Let us not confuse matters over the two totally differing matters of the old bridge that once carried the rail line and the new bridge that will carry the rail line once it is completed.
Llanigraham
On Moderation
Squaddie,
Nail on head!!
On my way back from Salop to Caersws last night, I was taliking to someone from the local Perway, and his comments fly directly opposite to those "spouted" by many here, and most certainly contrary to the comments about the damage other than at Pont Brewit.
I do wonder whether some of the doom merchants here have actually realised the huge amount of damage that has been caused on the Cambrian Coast section and the problems involved in even getting access. This is not just railway property destroyed and damaged but also access roads and other things. Many parts of the area are still under water!!
Holly, the signalling on this section is some of the most modern in the UK, but no-one expected this type of event! Do you live in the area and have any idea of the problems or constraints applicable?
Baxenden and YorkshireBear, they are doing all they can!! This is now deemed to have been a 1 in 500 year episode, in an area of relatively sparse population. Please explain how they are supposed to suddenly magic extra staff in to respond?
Some of you seem very happy to knock NR and the very hard working local staff with no real concept of what has happened or how hard they are trying to get things working as soon as possible!!
Nail on head!!
On my way back from Salop to Caersws last night, I was taliking to someone from the local Perway, and his comments fly directly opposite to those "spouted" by many here, and most certainly contrary to the comments about the damage other than at Pont Brewit.
I do wonder whether some of the doom merchants here have actually realised the huge amount of damage that has been caused on the Cambrian Coast section and the problems involved in even getting access. This is not just railway property destroyed and damaged but also access roads and other things. Many parts of the area are still under water!!
Holly, the signalling on this section is some of the most modern in the UK, but no-one expected this type of event! Do you live in the area and have any idea of the problems or constraints applicable?
Baxenden and YorkshireBear, they are doing all they can!! This is now deemed to have been a 1 in 500 year episode, in an area of relatively sparse population. Please explain how they are supposed to suddenly magic extra staff in to respond?
Some of you seem very happy to knock NR and the very hard working local staff with no real concept of what has happened or how hard they are trying to get things working as soon as possible!!
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Well said. The comment made that it should be "all hands to the bridge" and to therefore ignore the storm-damage works required on the Cambrian Coast line was somewhat hard to believe.
But I am confused! I can make almost no sense of this thread.
Could someone possibly post the basic facts about the old bridge, new bridge and the recommencement of train services to Pwllheli?
If anyone here has not been along the Cambrian Coast route, I urge them to do so once it is fully opened again. In fact the whole lot, Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth/Pwllheli is a remarkable stretch of Railway.
I've been in a car across old Pont Briwet a few times and my overwhelming notion was one of 'this is still standing?' same on the train. There are a number of places, some of them rather extended, where it is literally Sea | Railway Track. We are lucky it's still there too, because if any part of it had ever closed, there would be almost no chance of ever re-opening it. You really do gotta marvel at how somebody saw a mountainside falling away into an estuary and thought "Yes, we can put a Railway line there!!". It's an incredible bit of Railway throughout its length; and much of that comes from it's exposure to nature!
I've been in a car across old Pont Briwet a few times and my overwhelming notion was one of 'this is still standing?' same on the train. There are a number of places, some of them rather extended, where it is literally Sea | Railway Track. We are lucky it's still there too, because if any part of it had ever closed, there would be almost no chance of ever re-opening it. You really do gotta marvel at how somebody saw a mountainside falling away into an estuary and thought "Yes, we can put a Railway line there!!". It's an incredible bit of Railway throughout its length; and much of that comes from it's exposure to nature!
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Can you be more specific about what you don't understand? The info is all on here. Especially if you also check other online sources too, such as Wikipedia and mapping sites.
The old wooden bridge carried a single-track railway side by side with a single-lane toll road suitable for light vehicles only. The project is to replace it with a new durable concrete bridge carrying a single-track railway and a normal toll-free two-lane all-purpose road with a foot/cycle path. The new bridge was to be built in stages, railway section first, because the location of the road section overlaps the location of the old bridge.
A series of events has led to the road and/or railway being closed most of the time for the last few months. In particular, subsidence has been detected in the old bridge, probably caused by the works to build the new bridge. Just before Christmas Network Rail announced that the old bridge will not carry trains again. Since Christmas, Gwynedd council has announced an extended closure of the road because of holes in the road on the bridge and inadequate parapets.
Closure of the railway here implies closure of the western 20 miles of the Cambrian, but the Cambrian is also currently affected by recent storm damage at other places along the coast.
Latest reports say it is hoped to open the rail section of the new bridge by May this year and a temporary road bridge by the same date.
As far as I know no date has been announced for repair to other places along the line.
YorkshireBear
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Sorry i think you have misinterpreted my response.
I was basically saying the MPs can summon Network Rail all they want but Network Rail need only show pictures of the damage and they can hardly be criticised. Ie It is not Network Rail's fault i know that. And they are doing the best they can and being summoned by MPs probably won't help!
I then made a comment about the bridge explaining i am not surprised driving piles into the river bed has affected the old wooden bridge, completely separate from the storm disruption.
PaxVobiscum
Established Member
Llanigraham
On Moderation
My apologies, YorkshireBear.
Re Pont Briwet, I suspect it isn't any piles have caused the problem with the wooden bridge moving up and down, but the fact that they have constricted the river and tidal flow though the bridge with 2 stone "jetties".
Re Pont Briwet, I suspect it isn't any piles have caused the problem with the wooden bridge moving up and down, but the fact that they have constricted the river and tidal flow though the bridge with 2 stone "jetties".
Gareth Marston
Established Member
Welsh Radio stations were giving travel news as coast line closed until March today.
- to put damage in perspective there pictures of the concrete pill boxes and tank traps put on Fairbourne beach in WW2 being destroyed/ moved. So they've stood there for 80 years.
- to put damage in perspective there pictures of the concrete pill boxes and tank traps put on Fairbourne beach in WW2 being destroyed/ moved. So they've stood there for 80 years.
Thank you, and apologies that I was not more specific about the areas of confusion. I'm aware of the history of this bridge and the project to replace it.
This thread began with an assertion that the old bridge was now unsafe for rail traffic and that the entire route would be closed to trains for 18 months. (In fact, the title of the thread says it all). This was repeated as fact several times, by a number of different contributors. It was also stated categorically that speeding up the work to replace the bridge was absolutely not possible.
The thread then went off on a tangent about the storm damage to the line, which is an entirely separate issue, and subsequent discussions simply referred to the reopening of "the bridge", without being clear whether it was the old bridge or the new one being referred to.
It appears that the original inspiration for this thread, an article in the Daily Post, was just sensationalist nonsense.
Baxenden Bank
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Doing all they can, really?
Well, I looked at the pictures on / linked to this forum, and I read the various published notices on websites. The rock armour is undermined, whoopy do, the track bed is still safe then. The pictures show some rocks and stuff thown over the track, double whoopy do, the same pictures show Amco on site with excavators at the ready.
The Cumbrian Coast has re-opened. The sea wall, with track washed out past Llanelli has been repaired and re-opened. The Ockley landslip has its temporary road in place and a tentative re-opening date. If you want to go back far enough, in WWII bridges were rebuilt within a day to keep the trains running.
It all depends how much effort (and therefore money) you want to put into a situation.
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D1009
Established Member
Looking at these posts, can anyone compare the damage done to the Cumbrian and Cambrian coast lines in terms of repair costs. It's an interesting topic with regard to politics and devolved government.
Llanigraham
On Moderation
So in other words you are basing your whole point on a couple of photos and not from what the people on the ground are saying or who live in the area know!!
300 tonnes of ballast washed out to sea!
800 tonnes of rocks and beach washed onto the line!
Track moved over 5 metres out of true!
All electrical installations along that section destroyed!
No vehicular access to many areas!
Water still over a metre deep in places around the trackbed!
The armco is on one VERY short section.
You really don't have a clue, but it is all too easy to criticise the people who are trying very hard to get it all working!
Ploughman
Established Member
He said AMCO not ARMCO.
2 totally different subjects.
AMCO being a contractor I believe.
2 totally different subjects.
AMCO being a contractor I believe.
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