Midland Main Line, 125 mph from 8 December 2013

Edvid · 4 Jan 2014

asylumxl said:
Does anyone have any idea when the TSRs will be removed on the 125mph sections? So far no dice.

Still active today, south of Luton Airport Parkway anyway. At least EMT services no longer have to slow down on approach to Elstree Tunnel (saves 2 or 3 seconds).

edwin_m said:
That should be accurate, and will be the useable platform length although somebody has posted elsewhere that 12-car 377s are restricted to one platform due to signal sighting. I'm pretty sure 5-car 222s split and join there but less sure about whether an 11-car would actually fit.

Went to StP today, and have to admit I misjudged the space left by 10-car formations. The usable platform length is much closer to 260m than I originally thought, and 11 Meridian carriages can be accommodated (perhaps with a little room to spare). By default, that goes for 9+2 MkIV sets too.

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Saint66 · 4 Jan 2014

I think there is still a TSR in place north of St Albans too?

LTJ87 · 5 Jan 2014

I have certainly noticed the change since December. Travelling down from Nottingham to London St Pancras a couple of services I have taken have taken approximately 1 hour 35 minutes (currently timetabled for 1 hour 40+ minutes).

Edvid · 10 Jan 2014

Saint66 said:
I think there is still a TSR in place north of St Albans too?

Both north and south. I believe the down fast is limited to 95mph from Napsbury HABD, through St Albans City to just south of the track sectioning cabin in Sandridge. The up fast is limited to 100mph on the same stretch.

As for the down fast between Leagrave and Sharnbrook Junctions, the trains currently ride at 110-125mph depending on what TSRs are still in force.* Ampthill Tunnel is good for at least 115mph, though I should really have used my stopwatch function instead of my standard clock for that 715 yard stretch.

Does anyone on the inside know precisely what the linespeed through Ampthill Tunnel is?

[* :wub:

0 seconds a mile is worth >120mph.]

asylumxl · 10 Jan 2014

Edvid said:
Both north and south. I believe the down fast is limited to 95mph from Napsbury HABD, through St Albans City to just south of the track sectioning cabin in Sandridge. The up fast is limited to 100mph on the same stretch.

As for the down fast between Leagrave and Sharnbrook Junctions, the trains currently ride at 110-125mph depending on what TSRs are still in force.* Ampthill Tunnel is good for at least 115mph, though I should really have used my stopwatch function instead of my standard clock for that 715 yard stretch.

It all seems a tad farcical. NR making a song and dance about the commencement of 125mph running, yet they still haven't removed the TSRs?!

Cherry_Picker · 11 Jan 2014

Did NR make the song and dance, or was it the marketing department at EMT?

asylumxl · 11 Jan 2014

Cherry_Picker said:
Did NR make the song and dance, or was it the marketing department at EMT?

Well put it this way, NR management were quoted in just about every article about it and pictured in press photos with the EMT management...

43074 · 11 Jan 2014

There's still a TSR North of Loughborough on the Down fast.

LowLevel · 12 Jan 2014

43074 said:
There's still a TSR North of Loughborough on the Down fast.

That's a bit of a half and half issue - it's technically down to the replacement of the points at Loughborough North Junction, which should have been finished the other day but obviously has not been yet!

Edvid · 12 Jan 2014

In addition to my previous question, are the new OHLE portals near Borehamwood NR Series I, or something else?

LowLevel · 12 Jan 2014

LowLevel said:
That's a bit of a half and half issue - it's technically down to the replacement of the points at Loughborough North Junction, which should have been finished the other day but obviously has not been yet!

And as of this morning it has been removed (thank god) though it's still only plated for 110 on the down fast.

Edvid · 19 Jan 2014

Ampthill Tunnel can handle trains at 125mph on both fasts (marked 100/HST125). Nice work, considering the previous limit was 100mph and NR originally planned an upgrade to just 115mph.

43074 · 19 Jan 2014

I believe all TSRs were removed this week and the full 125mph service implemented, where this is permitted. Hopefully performance will improve with these removed.

Edvid · 19 Jan 2014

There are still 110mph TSR signs in place right now (I travelled between Parkway and Bedford earlier today).

D1009 · 19 Jan 2014

I can confirm this, I too travelled from Sheffield to St Pancras today on an HST via Manton, which was nice. I was sitting on the East side of the train which meant that I couldn't see the TSR boards applicable to the line we were on for most of the time, but I did see a 110 commencement board immediately north of Bedford North Jn where we slowed to cross over, and there were warning boards on the up slow approaching all slow to fast crossovers between there and Leagrave, which suggested to me that this stretch of the up fast is not yet ready for 125. However according to my GPS we touched 116 between Sharnbrook and Bedford North and 120 near Mill Hill Broadway.

I remember when the line speed from Derby to Birmingham was raised to 125 with great fanfare, a 90 TSR in both directions was imposed over the entire route for months afterwards!

43074 · 19 Jan 2014

This was where I got my information from. I assumed most TSRs had been lifted, but it seems not.

Edvid · 19 Jan 2014

D1009 said:
I can confirm this, I too travelled from Sheffield to St Pancras today on an HST via Manton, which was nice.

For the record, my return trip was on this train. It struggled to hit a ton between the Bedfordshire calls. [Edit - the power cars were sluggish.]

D1009 said:
I was sitting on the East side of the train which meant that I couldn't see the TSR boards appicable to the line we were on for most of the time, but I did see a 110 commencement board immediately north of Bedford North Jn where we slowed to cross over, and there were warning boards on the up slow approaching all slow to fast crossovers between there and Elstree, which suggested to me that this stretch of the up fast is not yet ready for 125.

If it's in a similar condition to the down fast, some patches are ready. IMX, Meridians can top 125 in between 110 TSRs.

D1009 said:
However according to my GPS we touched 116 between Sharnbrook and Bedford North and 120 near Mill Hill Broadway.

120 near Mill Hill? That's interesting; between StP and a point ~1.25 miles outside Greater London (i.e. somewhere in Borehamwood), the MML isn't signed for anything above 110. If not for the ventilation in Elstree Tunnel (which needed work to allow 110 in the first place) or pathing issues (perhaps), I reckon NR would have raised the fasts to 120/125 up to the curve near the RAF Museum/Grahame Park MPATS.

D1009 said:
I remember when the line speed from Derby to Birmingham was raised to 125 with great fanfare, a 90 TSR in both directions was imposed over the entire route for months afterwards!

I'd be interested to know what the fastest TSRs on the classic network ever implemented were. I originally thought they'd equalled/set a record on the MML, but now I'm pondering the possibility of 115/120 TSRs having been done somewhere else in the past...

D1009 · 19 Jan 2014

Edvid said:
For the record, my return trip was on this train. It struggled to hit a ton between the Bedfordshire calls.

If it's in a similar condition to the down fast, some patches are ready. IMX, Meridians can top 125 in between 110 TSRs.

120 near Mill Hill? That's interesting; between StP and a point ~1.25 miles outside Greater London (i.e. somewhere in Borehamwood), the MML isn't signed for anything above 110. If not for the ventilation in Elstree Tunnel (which needed work to allow 110 in the first place) or pathing issues (perhaps), I reckon NR would have raised the fasts to 120/125 up to the curve near the RAF Museum/Grahame Park MPATS.

I'd be interested to know what the fastest TSRs on the classic network ever implemented were. I originally thought they'd equalled/set a record on the MML, but know I'm pondering the possibility of 115/120 TSRs having been done somewhere else in the past...

We were on the same train then.

Just realised I typed Elstree when I meant Leagrave. The 120 could easily have been a GPS inaccuracy.

There were a lot of 110 TSRs on the WCML when the Pendos started to run at 125.

CallySleeper · 19 Jan 2014

Cherry_Picker said:
Did NR make the song and dance, or was it the marketing department at EMT?

I'm calling EMT out on this one. I think it's fairly clear that NR only promised full speed increases in "Spring 2014", with granted some improvements in December. So at this time we should accept the current TSRs as the work still isn't complete.
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/news/2012/july/Record-speed-on-Midland-main-line/

asylumxl · 20 Jan 2014

D1009 said:
Just realised I typed Elstree when I meant Leagrave. The 120 could easily have been a GPS inaccuracy.

That's far more likely as Leagrave was originally 110mph and I now believe is the beginning of the 125mph section north of Luton.

Edvid · 20 Jan 2014

On the down fast, yes - after Leagrave Jn to be precise. The up fast, on the other hand is 120 from outside Ampthill Tunnel to the Sundon Road bridge, then (according to the CP4 Dec 2013 plan) 125 to just before Luton North Jn.

eastwestdivide · 20 Jan 2014

Just had a look at realtime trains for Thu 16th, and out of all the arrivals at Sheffield from St Pancras between 1000-1700, only two were late, and both of them had been right time at Dore, so the lateness wasn't due to a lack of 125mph running.
It would appear that any remaining speed restrictions aren't causing too many problems in terms of timekeeping.

asylumxl · 20 Jan 2014

eastwestdivide said:
Just had a look at realtime trains for Thu 16th, and out of all the arrivals at Sheffield from St Pancras between 1000-1700, only two were late, and both of them had been right time at Dore, so the lateness wasn't due to a lack of 125mph running.
It would appear that any remaining speed restrictions aren't causing too many problems in terms of timekeeping.

Well, no. But as previously mentioned. the December improvements were infact due to the removal of a third of the timetable padding.

D1009 · 20 Jan 2014

Yes, my journey from Sheffield yesterday was my first up the MML for a few years, and my perception was that the train wasn't being driven anywhere near the limits of its capability until after the reversal at Leicester, but I then realised there was no need. After Leicester we had the diversion via Corby, but we did end up 2 late at St Pancras despite there being no engineering work or other obvious delays south of Kettering. I was surprised to see a 50 odd mile 4 track railway fully open on a Sunday.

asylumxl · 20 Jan 2014

D1009 said:
Yes, my journey from Sheffield yesterday was my first up the MML for a few years, and my perception was that the train wasn't being driven anywhere near the limits of its capability until after the reversal at Leicester, but I then realised there was no need. After Leicester we had the diversion via Corby, but we did end up 2 late at St Pancras despite there being no engineering work or other obvious delays south of Kettering. I was surprised to see a 50 odd mile 4 track railway fully open on a Sunday.

That wasn't the case when i was on yesterday. In the morning EMT services were using the slow lines, at least through Luton.There were also temporary speed restrictions at Hendon due to the previous dewirement. Only in the evening did I see EMT services using the fast lines.

LTJ87 · 11 Feb 2014

The BBC has now finally caught on to the fact that the MML is not yet operating at the promised speed levels!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-26140652

The Planner · 12 Feb 2014

asylumxl said:
Well, no. But as previously mentioned. the December improvements were infact due to the removal of a third of the timetable padding.

Which was engineering allowance, not padding.... renew the tracks and you can take it out.

asylumxl · 12 Feb 2014

The Planner said:
Which was engineering allowance, not padding.... renew the tracks and you can take it out.

So it's not padding to account for track renewal? Can call it whatever you like but it's still not due to the speed increases.

Martin222002 · 13 Feb 2014

asylumxl said:
So it's not padding to account for track renewal? Can call it whatever you like but it's still not due to the speed increases.

I could say similar to you. If it's not line speed increases then why have new higher speed limit signs popped up along the MML? Trust me those 125mph signs weren't there before.

This means there is obviously has to be a element of reduction in journey times that is down to line speed improvements.

asylumxl · 13 Feb 2014

Martin222002 said:
I could say similar to you. If it's not line speed increases then why have new higher speed limit signs popped up along the MML? Trust me those 125mph signs weren't there before. This means there is obviously has to be a element of reduction in journey times that is down to line speed improvements.

That could be true, if it weren't for the fact I use the MML daily and still see plenty of TSR signs along the route

.

Midland Main Line, 125 mph from 8 December 2013

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