Wheelchair access on rail replacements

TUC · 18 Jan 2014

On the list of what can't be carried on rail replacement services 'wheelchairs' usually appears.

Leaving aside the fact that the increasing number of accessible buses and coaches makes it surprising that TOCs don't at least attempt to hire accessible vehicles, what's striking is that in most cases there isn't an alternative suggested. With a small number of exceptions, the information doesn't usually add anything to advise wheelchair users to ring a number so that alternative transport can be arranged. One would hope that most TOCs would arrange such alternatives but the failure to mention it may well lead sone people to wrongly think that no alternatives are available.

It does leave one wondering whether its a careless or conscious omission.

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jopsuk · 18 Jan 2014

Certainly sounds like something rather open to challenge- it should certainly be made clear that alternative transport can and will be provided. Whilst coaches in regular service (National Express, Megabus etc) may be accessible, those used for Rail Replacement are, in my experience, older ones- the ones used for school services, available for hire for day trips etc.

WSW · 18 Jan 2014

jopsuk said:
...those used for Rail Replacement are, in my experience, older ones- the ones used for school services, available for hire for day trips etc.

Indeed! The one I was plonked on at York, a few years back, was so old it managed only 35mph max on the trip up to Darlington. Upon arrival, the trains had been running again for over an hour

Steve

Goatboy · 18 Jan 2014

In all the times I've used an RRB I think only once has it been an actual bus. Every other time it's a Coach.

syorksdeano · 18 Jan 2014

Some of the rail replacement buses I've had the unfortunate experience make Northern Rail's trains look posh and new

NotATrainspott · 18 Jan 2014

Aren't the TOCs obliged to give you some kind of accessible travel to where your ticket says you're going? Most of the time that ends up being an accessible taxi.

Muzer · 18 Jan 2014

Goatboy said:
In all the times I've used an RRB I think only once has it been an actual bus. Every other time it's a Coach.

RRBs for local services rather than "regional express"/intercity services tend to be actual buses. The Salisbury 6 replacements whenever there are line closures around Southampton, for example, are generally buses.

jamesst · 18 Jan 2014

Muzer said:
RRBs for local services rather than "regional express"/intercity services tend to be actual buses. The Salisbury 6 replacements whenever there are line closures around Southampton, for example, are generally buses.

I know Merseyrail tend to use taxis,not sure on procedures elsewhere

455driver · 18 Jan 2014

I thought they used a towrope on the back of the bus!

pt_mad · 19 Jan 2014

I think replacement bus companies are selected based on their past reliability and punctuality etc etc. If accessible buses are not easily available then alternative transport will always be put on by TOCs for those who need it.

Llanigraham · 19 Jan 2014

NotATrainspott said:
Aren't the TOCs obliged to give you some kind of accessible travel to where your ticket says you're going? Most of the time that ends up being an accessible taxi.

Certainly how I have seen it done by ATW at Shrewsbury

TUC · 19 Jan 2014

pt_mad said:
I think replacement bus companies are selected based on their past reliability and punctuality etc etc. If accessible buses are not easily available then alternative transport will always be put on by TOCs for those who need it.

As explained in the OP, that may be, but its the fact this its often not publicised and the impression simply given that wheelchair users can't be carried that is the problem.

reb0118 · 19 Jan 2014

455driver said:
I thought they used a towrope on the back of the bus!

Surely this would mean that the bus would have to run at a reduced speed? Hopefully no more than 30mph as any more than that would be most uncomfortable for the unfortunate wheelchair user. Probably a trailer would be better - are there any buses out there with a tow-bar?

DelayRepay · 19 Jan 2014

reb0118 said:
Surely this would mean that the bus would have to run at a reduced speed? Hopefully no more than 30mph as any more than that would be most uncomfortable for the unfortunate wheelchair user. Probably a trailer would be better - are there any buses out there with a tow-bar?

See posy #3. That is why the bus to Darlington was only able to travel at 35mph.

This must be even more difficult for unplanned disruption like we saw on Thameslink on Friday. Whilst the TOC would no doubt be happy to fund a taxi, the actual logistics during the initial chaos would not be good. i.e. the disabled passenger has to find a member of staff to arrange this, at a time when the staff are probably pushed trying to organise coaches/buses, deal with 1,001 queries and complaints, marshal the 1,000s of other passengers etc.

Blindtraveler · 20 Jan 2014

reb0118 said:
Surely this would mean that the bus would have to run at a reduced speed? Hopefully no more than 30mph as any more than that would be most uncomfortable for the unfortunate wheelchair user. Probably a trailer would be better - are there any buses out there with a tow-bar?

Im sure someone will correct me if required but I think Megabuses old Skyliners used to tow a luggage trailer?

↲interestingly enough, my last RRB was Perth to Aviemore back in Octobers and much to my surprise was a Plaxton Panther with lift and wheelchair space. Very special given what Scotrail normally offer up. even 6re interestingly, REB was the guard on the service from Edinburgh which took us to Perth - a much appreciated Sunday morning surprize!↲

lincolnshire · 20 Jan 2014

Usually a wheelchair accessible taxi is arranged for disabled passengers, but also you find that some wheelchair users are able to get out of their chairs and onto the coach as only need the chair for travelling any distance, so then the wheelchair can be folded up and placed in luggage locker below the coach. Its also adviseable to book passenger assistance and check beforehand at weekends so that arrangments can be made so as not to delay the passengers journey anymore than it has to be with rail replacement.

The answer to why they use coaches? they have more luggage room below and better quality of seats etc than the normal service buses for the distance involved also some like Virgin require then to have a toilet in board too.

I have experianced Three Bridges to Brighton on a double decker service bus
last year, only a small amount of room for luggage as you get on and seats the same as fitted to the pacers origionally.

Also differant levels of service and assistance provided depend on the company organiseing the rail replacement operation.

0B00 · 20 Jan 2014

During the West Coast Route Mod project, Virgin took a conscious decision to provide a Stand By DDA compliant taxis at major coach interchange points. (As an aside we provided Dog carrying vans and Cycle carrying vans too !)

Nowadays it seems that anyone with a disability that cannot board the bus/coach offered will be provided with a taxi - and at times this can delay the customer and cause them to miss a forward connection.

Eventually I suspect that someone will challenge this in the courts and win, as we were told that the disabled person cannot be discriminated against and by not allowing them to travel at the same time as able bodied persons (i.e. taxi immediately available) then they were discriminated against.

Eagle · 20 Jan 2014

lincolnshire said:
The answer to why they use coaches? they have more luggage room below and better quality of seats etc than the normal service buses for the distance involved also some like Virgin require them to have a toilet in board too.

The other main reason is that coaches are available for hire (in fact there's a whole industry based round that :P), whereas buses often aren't because they're needed in day to day service.

jopsuk · 20 Jan 2014

I'm sure I've seen rail replacement buses and coaches with Stagecoach (SWT?) and First rail replacement liveries- who owns and operates these and in which areas?

Haywain · 20 Jan 2014

I believe that TfL specifies fully accessible vehicles for Rail Replacment services. TOCs certainly have to take account of the need to transport disabled passengers, but may take the view that for the longer journeys involved the coach/taxi solution is more cost effective (and over a journey of, say, 25 miles, the taxi is usually quicker even if the coach leaves first).

When the RRB provision is at short notice, as with FCC on Friday, I imagine that the only priority is to get road transport that can move large numbers of people.

Lockwood · 20 Jan 2014

jopsuk said:
I'm sure I've seen rail replacement buses and coaches with Stagecoach (SWT?) and First rail replacement liveries- who owns and operates these and in which areas?

I've seen the SWT buses a few times.
I think that Stagecoach own them...

Baxenden Bank · 20 Jan 2014

0B00 said:
During the West Coast Route Mod project, Virgin took a conscious decision to provide a Stand By DDA compliant taxis at major coach interchange points. (As an aside we provided Dog carrying vans and Cycle carrying vans too !)

Nowadays it seems that anyone with a disability that cannot board the bus/coach offered will be provided with a taxi - and at times this can delay the customer and cause them to miss a forward connection.

Eventually I suspect that someone will challenge this in the courts and win, as we were told that the disabled person cannot be discriminated against and by not allowing them to travel at the same time as able bodied persons (i.e. taxi immediately available) then they were discriminated against.

Indeed, Stoke-on-Trent had a supply of accessible taxi and the vans referred to every time I used the temporary bus station. Obviously that was planned well in advance and was a long term closure (17 weeks?).

Surely, if it is a rail replacement service, then it should replace that rail service as closely as possible? For example, I go away for the weekend with my dog, my bicycle and luggage. Whilst away, the sea washes the railway line away. How do I get home?

I am sure, in the case of a wheelchair user, arrangements would be made. But the message given out, as I interpret it, is tough luck to anyone with non-folding prams etc. For an immediate problem of a couple of hours duration that may be acceptable but with the long-term closure of, say, the Cambrian Coast, why should people be denied their service?

TUC · 20 Jan 2014

455driver said:
I thought they used a towrope on the back of the bus!

reb0118 said:
Surely this would mean that the bus would have to run at a reduced speed? Hopefully no more than 30mph as any more than that would be most uncomfortable for the unfortunate wheelchair user. Probably a trailer would be better - are there any buses out there with a tow-bar?

I think 455driver was joking. I don't think anyone would seriously suggest towing a wheelchair from the back of a bus!?

Lockwood · 20 Jan 2014

455driver's fingers were in contact with his keyboard. That's a good sign of flippancy...

We all know you don't use a tow bar for a wheelchair on a coach. You just open the underfloor storage doors and get a ramp.

455driver · 20 Jan 2014

Lockwood said:
455driver's fingers were in contact with his keyboard. That's a good sign of flippancy...

Ho ho ho, arent we a comedienne!:roll:

Typed using a pen to press the keys! :lol:

E-Rail · 20 Jan 2014

Lockwood said:
I've seen the SWT buses a few times.
I think that Stagecoach own them...

The SWT liveried Olympians are operated by Stagecoach South and are based at Winchester Depot along with the rail rep team.

ECML180 · 20 Jan 2014

Theres a number of Stagecoach Rail Replacement vehicles based at Lincoln too AFAIK.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Theres a number of Stagecoach Rail Replacement vehicles based at Lincoln too AFAIK.

pt_mad · 21 Jan 2014

TUC said:
As explained in the OP, that may be, but its the fact this its often not publicised and the impression simply given that wheelchair users can't be carried that is the problem.

But when the person books the assistance they will straight away be informed it is possible

.

Welshman · 21 Jan 2014

Just for reference, Arriva Trains Wales has sometimes used buses for rail-replacement for shorter journeys, such as Rhyl-Chester or Rhyl-Holyhead. But they have been DDA compliant with a wide front door, no steps and a designated wheelchair space.

krus_aragon · 23 Jan 2014

Welshman said:
Just for reference, Arriva Trains Wales has sometimes used buses for rail-replacement for shorter journeys, such as Rhyl-Chester or Rhyl-Holyhead. But they have been DDA compliant with a wide front door, no steps and a designated wheelchair space.

Furthermore, they frequently use buses rather than coaches for rail-replacement services in the Cardiff area (on the Valleys routes). Cardiff Bus are often contracted in for work within the city.

Wheelchair access on rail replacements

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