STEVIEBOY1
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Well done to England & Ireland. 
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Rugby Union
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Well, that comment should see a certain someone summoned to Conservative Central Office....
Do you mean that you don't like teams that play for the whole 80 minutes winning? From what was shown on the TV, it was not as clear as all that that the pass was forward, and benefit of doubt to attacking teams might have been shown - one has seen it given for more obvious passes. But one could argue it was evened out by the "post" try. And Healey - certainly the dirtiest player in the Championship - could have been yellow if not red carded earlier. But that's what makes rugby such an entertaining game, and this game was a cracker.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Not at all. I was just highlighting matters from this current Six Nations.
What's you feelings about the Scotland Fixture ? - are you going to give us a panning
Edit Butts - don't bother answering the result is self-evident !!
Before the game, I would have said nom, but I expect Wales to win. The winning margin would have bene a lot narrower if Hogg hadn't gone a bit mad.
I don't think that dropping the borders region did any good for Scottish rugby. I worry that there is much talk in Wales of having two regions and two development teams. It is not the way forward!
There should be no relegation, however. I would not like to see any of the traditional nations lose the place in such an old tournament because of the cyclical nature of the game.
In any case, Italy would be gone first, wouldn't they, on this season's results?
The Scots did the only thing they could in the circumstances; they tried to keep hold of the ball and go through the phases. They did this pretty effectively for a lot of the second half, but the half backs were very poor. They looke da lot sharper with Cusiter there.
If I was a Scotland supporter I would not want Duncan Weir in the team at all, despite his last minute drop goal. He makes too many mistakes, and his cross kick yesterday in the second half was yet another abject failure of execution.
Jonny! I can't find anything on the BBC Sport website. He was knocked out, I think before he even hit the floor tackling Mr Basteraud
I disagree - if the passer had not been blocked after the pass, I'm pretty sure he would have remained in front of the ball.
That isn't the definition of a forward pass (any more)
The IRB have a video which deals with this situation - see the bit at the end where it says 'passes are often incorrectly ruled forward...'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=box08lq9ylg
That isn't how it looked to me!
I know, and I don't like it! It's too confusing now, and given their record with tinkering the laws, I wouldn't be surprised if it's altered again.
It's simpler for the players and spectators if the rule is that if the ball goes forward then it's a forward pass. Just like the knock on's.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
An amazing coincidence, as I was thinking about past managers of Manchester United at the same time as making this posting, but he died towards the end of 2012. My posting is now amended.
What a surname for the player whom he tackled. Sounds straight out of a Monty Python sketch.
I'm pretty confident that's the case; he was starting to move quickly when he threw the pass.
There's a French player behind the passer who jogs through and is actually in front of the receiver when he catches the ball. I think it's reasonable to judge that the passer would have been a long way in front of him, had he been unhindered.
They haven't actually changed the law, they have just changed the way it is interpreted.
But, it's pretty much an essential change. When a player is running at pace, just about all passes are actually forward with respect to the pitch.
I quickly tried looking at the Wales tries yesterday; it's hard to tell with some of the angles, but I think all but 1 probably had at least one 'forward' pass in the build-up - by that definition.
BTW, Rugby League included this in the laws many years ago
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And therein lies the problem,. Far too much of rugby is dependent on the interpretation of the laws on the day. The scrum is an excellent example of tinkering with interpretation of the laws, and so is the tackle area.
I don;t think it;s an essential change at all. I think it's more to do with the mdoern way of running the angles. The passer is looking to deliver the ball as parallel as they can to the back line - this emans the receiver is coming on to the ball at pace.
It's only my personal opinion, but when I played the game (albeit at a very, very low level), everyone knew that if the ball was received (or not as the case may be) forward of the place wher eit left the passer's hands, then it was forward!
I'd like it to go back to that. In club rugby, without TMO's and video replays, it must be impossible to judge a forward pass any other way. International rugby is already becoming a totally different game to grass roots rugby.
Yes, because that is the way players today are trying to play the game. Change it back and they will have to adapt!
And, for me that's another very good reason not to have the same thing in Union!
I agree; I think being completely unable to adjust to the interpretation of the referee on the day has, at times, contributed to England's demise.
I don't think professional sport should be open to such wildly different interpretations, although I think the difference (e.g., between Northern and Southern hemisphere referees) is less obvious than it was some years ago.
By my reckoning, two backs running at full pace would need to have about a 45 degree angle between them for a pass not to actually be forwards. I'm not sure that would lead to a more enjoyable game.
I think it's usually much easier to tell if a pass has gone backwards relative to the two players than relative to the pitch. It's usually obvious - it's only when there is a change in momentum that it usually becomes a problem.
At the pace I have played the game at (2 sub appearances for Birkenhead Park 5ths), it wouldn't make any difference!
Same with me, my team mates said I would be overtaken by a bookcase!
I think the ref being able to watch the big screen and call a decision is a great new rule to be allowed. Definitely one that would be useful in Football after seeing some of the fouls that get a yellow card and also diving could be reviewed.
BBC Sport said:
I agree. It also has the advantage of reducing the TMO's influence, as he will usually only be there to liaise with the TV people as to what angles should be replayed. Only in some cases will he actually be called to make a decision, which is good, as the referee on the pitch should have the final call anyway.
I thought the change on Saturday after seeing the event on the screen was good, strong refereeing (and was equally impressed with the way that Hogg simply accepted it - compare Vidic).
However, as we know from football, there are times when TV can show us the wrong answer, or give an appearance of certainty to a doubt. The classic case is in cricket, where it has been shown time and again that television angles cannot determine whether a catch has carried. In football (and, perhaps in the France "forward pass" decision) the position of the camera relative to the passer and the receiver can make a player look massively offside or not.
Then there is the case of the "incorrect" try given when the grounding against the post was apparently dropped. Looked like a howler (though there was a strong case for a penalty try anyway), but, even from the pictures, it was possible that the ball was still under control, or was not knocked forward, or any one of a thousand nuances. The point being that the referee himself was certain enough to award the try.
Technology will never produce certainty. I think the balance in RU is about right at present. The most important thing, though, is that players and authorities accept the referee's decision.
However, as we know from football, there are times when TV can show us the wrong answer, or give an appearance of certainty to a doubt. The classic case is in cricket, where it has been shown time and again that television angles cannot determine whether a catch has carried. In football (and, perhaps in the France "forward pass" decision) the position of the camera relative to the passer and the receiver can make a player look massively offside or not.
Then there is the case of the "incorrect" try given when the grounding against the post was apparently dropped. Looked like a howler (though there was a strong case for a penalty try anyway), but, even from the pictures, it was possible that the ball was still under control, or was not knocked forward, or any one of a thousand nuances. The point being that the referee himself was certain enough to award the try.
Technology will never produce certainty. I think the balance in RU is about right at present. The most important thing, though, is that players and authorities accept the referee's decision.
Some referees have been quicker than others to assert their authority so far, but I expect that in the enxt year or so all of them will begin to make almost of all of the decisions themselves after reviewing the big screen. They may want a second opinion, I have seen a few refs in the Rabo this season ask the TMO if they agree with their interpretation!
I hope Rugby Union players continue not to dispute decisions. The screaming circle of players around a referee is not of the most apepaling sights in football, nor are the histrionics like those of Mr Kompany at the weekend.
I hope Rugby Union players continue not to dispute decisions. The screaming circle of players around a referee is not of the most apepaling sights in football, nor are the histrionics like those of Mr Kompany at the weekend.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
LV= Cup Final
Exeter Chiefs 15...Northampton Saints 8
They say that everything comes to those who wait, but it has taken 143 years for Exeter Chiefs to win a major trophy.
Congratulations to them.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Sale 19...Northampton Saints 6
Sale showed just how much they improved have this season against a top-two side and this win takes them over Harlequins to fifth place in the league table.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Harking back to your old posting above and to updated matters that appear to have now recently surfaced, what is your view of the proposed new-style European Cup and of the fact that this is said to be run by a company based in Switzerland ?
Exeter Chiefs 15...Northampton Saints 8
They say that everything comes to those who wait, but it has taken 143 years for Exeter Chiefs to win a major trophy.
Congratulations to them.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Sale 19...Northampton Saints 6
Sale showed just how much they improved have this season against a top-two side and this win takes them over Harlequins to fifth place in the league table.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Harking back to your old posting above and to updated matters that appear to have now recently surfaced, what is your view of the proposed new-style European Cup and of the fact that this is said to be run by a company based in Switzerland ?
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My view is that it is a sensible compromise. It already appears to be making the RaboPro12 more competitive, as there are fewer European Cup places available. The reduction from 24 teams to 20 should also make it a more elite type of tournament
It wasn't really fair that the Pro12 had so many representativess (10 I think this season), at least now the system is mroe of a meritocracy.
We have a European competition which will feature all of the Six Nations countries, which is a very good thing for the sport. We also have a similar, but lesser competition (Amlin Cup as is), and developmental competition, if I understand it correctly.
I haven't looked into the organisational side very deeply, but it seems to me that the governing boar has representatives from all of the Unions involved, along with an independent chair. The fact that it's based in Switzerland alludes to a kind of neutrality, whioch hopefully will prevent much of the future infighting that we have seen over the last few years. Only time will tell!
From a Welsh perspective, perhaps we can now start to end the tedious war that has developed between the WRU and the Regions. The two parties have to work together for the good of the game.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Bath 11...Sale 12
In the Friday night Premiership match, four Danny Cipriani penalties kept Sale's recent good Premiership run of form going in what on paper looked to be a very difficult match away to third place Bath and keeps Sale in 5th position. This was only the second time that Bath had lost at home in a Premiership league fixture since December 2012.
In the Friday night Premiership match, four Danny Cipriani penalties kept Sale's recent good Premiership run of form going in what on paper looked to be a very difficult match away to third place Bath and keeps Sale in 5th position. This was only the second time that Bath had lost at home in a Premiership league fixture since December 2012.
flymo
Established Member
For those followers of the short version of the game, England, Wales and Scotland all featured n the 3 finals of the Hong Kong 7s. England lost in the cup final to New Zealand 26-7; Wales lost in the plate final to South Africa 19-14 but Scotland were victorious and won the bowl final against France 31-5.
Butts
Veteran Member
flymo
Established Member
The next round of the IRB 7s is in Glasgow, to be held at the Scotstoun Stadium on the weekend of May 3 & 4. New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, Samoa, Argentina as well as England, Wales, Scotland and surprisingly impressive Japan (don't look at the swallow dive the fella dropped.. hahahha ) will all be there. Tickets not cheap but could be an interesting weekend...
http://www.irbsevens.com/destination/edition=10/index.html for more details although full fixtures not yet confirmed.
http://www.irbsevens.com/destination/edition=10/index.html for more details although full fixtures not yet confirmed.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Exeter Chiefs 12....Sale Sharks 55
A tremendous second half display by Sale culminated in an 8-try victory, consolidation of their sixth place in the Premiership and most importantly, confirmed that they qualify for next season's European Rugby Champions Cup.
A tremendous second half display by Sale culminated in an 8-try victory, consolidation of their sixth place in the Premiership and most importantly, confirmed that they qualify for next season's European Rugby Champions Cup.
Amberley54
Member
Away at Darlington Mowden Park yesterday Macclesfield secured promotion back into National League 1 with a last minute fourth try that secured the bonus points required to secure the title in a pulsating match.
Therefore, despite loosing the game 28-24, the 200 traveling supporters had a great day out and at the final whistle set about drinking the stadium bar dry before setting off back home.
Lots of sore heads this morning
Therefore, despite loosing the game 28-24, the 200 traveling supporters had a great day out and at the final whistle set about drinking the stadium bar dry before setting off back home.
Lots of sore heads this morning
There isn't much joy around these parts. The attitude of Scarlets fans seems to be just to get the season over and done with. Two die hard supporters I was talking to yesterday said something like 'We'll go down and see the season out' as if it was more of a chore than anything else!
I suspect that the trouble sin Welsh rugby have taken their toll on the enthusiasm of supporters.
I suspect that the trouble sin Welsh rugby have taken their toll on the enthusiasm of supporters.
It appears to me that Welsh rugby is being let down by its administrators who seem to hark back to the days of amateurism and fail to accept that the game is now professional.
Elsewhere Northampton Saints beat Harlequins in the semi final of the Amlin Challenge Cup to secure a place in the final against Bath at the Arms Park in Cardiff.
I wish it were that simple!
Sadly, there has been much in fighting due, in my view, to the way in which the Welsh regions were set up in the first place. The regions themselves are not blameless, and the dispute has not bene helped by the uncertainty over European rugby next season. Hopefully, the latter point has bene resolved for now, but will undoubtedly reappear in a few years.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Sale Sharks have moved to cover the absence of Rob Miller, who will be leaving to join London Wasps next season, by negotiating the signing of Luke McLean, the Italy and Treviso full back as his replacement.