The Planner
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Guarenteed as there are a good few all line blocks for Norton Bridge.
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Manchester - Liverpool Electrification
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DJH1971
Established Member
I'm not totally sure, but whilst driving in themail Carr Mill area of St Helens this afternoon, I saw what looked like a small length of catenary just before the rail bridge crossing the A580.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Unless it went up in the last 24 hours I don't think so.
There are still too many gaps in the run of masts, even around Prescot where they are mostly complete.
I still counted about 10 missing masts yesterday between Whiston Lane bridge near Huyton, where the run of masts towards Wigan starts, and St Helens Central, plus the "canyon" at Thatto Heath with nothing yet.
They are still putting missing bases in in odd places.
It's also curious that masts are going up steadily on the main line, when there are still plenty of gaps on the Wigan branch where the bases have been installed for months.
Some of the droppers for the future wires are tied back with a bit of wire for stability before the real OHLE wires arrive.
There are only 8 weeks of Sunday possessions left.
Having said that, there is a lot of trackside activity going on (cable troughing, signal base construction etc) in addition to the base/mast work.
Every bit of progress reminds you of how much there still is to do.
Around Huyton, how on earth they work out what to do next in the construction chaos beats me!
There are some bases now on the south side of the layout, but no chance of putting any in on the north side before the new track is in.
DJH1971
Established Member
As I said, from the distance it appeared to look like a small section of wiring, but could have well been telegraph wires knowing me!
Nine months and a bit left and counting....
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No urgency to have both routes energised by December 2014 as only enough 319s will be available for one.
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They will need greater pity when the rail is extended through the tunnel to Wetherby and Cross Gates as is proposed locally
WatcherZero
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People looking at progress didnt think the Chat Moss electrification would be done by the deadline either, that final bit of the puzzle where it all comes together can surprise you.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
They have to finish and move on to Blackpool/Bolton or the whole lot will be late.
I don't doubt they'll get there, it's just that it's so complex around Huyton.
If that's delayed nothing can run.
Let's hope the weather this summer doesn't hold them up.
DJH1971
Established Member
By December 2016 they've got to do Blackpool, Bolton and two routes to Stalybridge!
All more challenging than what they are doing now.......Blackpool terminal facilities, Chorley cutting, Bolton station & junctions, Farnworth tunnel.
... and three months later it still isn't finished!
Class 170101
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I thought a blockade had been proposed for Farnworth Tunnel hence why Chat Moss was being wired first so as to provide an electrified route between Preston and Manchester.
edwin_m
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Chat Moss was announced first and Bolton was announced later, so while it provides a useful diversionary route that can't have been the reason to do it.
po8crg
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I've just done the numbers on the Earlestown diversion against via Runcorn.
The route via Runcorn is 18 miles 79 chains from Weaver Junction. At the current PSRs, it could be done in 17 minutes 40 seconds without a stop at Runcorn.
The Earlestown diversion is 27 miles 13 chains from Weaver Junction. At the current PSRs, it could be done in 23 minutes 19 seconds. Raising the PSR from Broad Green station to Earlestown Station (ie retaining Broad Green to Edge Hill at 75) to 90mph from 75mph would lower that to 21 minutes 51 seconds.
The numbers in the other direction will be marginally different, of course (the speed limits start and finish in different places in different directions).
Obviously those are theoretical timings with no slack and instant accelerations and brakings - slowing down to 20 mph for the Earlestown junction will cost a lot more time than the 50-odd seconds actually spent in the PSR.
Still, no TOC is going to want to sacrifice that amount of time and a stop, other than for engineering works.
Getting a train into Liverpool station from the Chat Moss direction won't be too bad - platforms 7 and 8 only create conflicting movements against a train leaving towards South Parkway, which would only be the locals on CLC (to / via Warrington Central) and perhaps the Norwich trains, as the Transpennines will have moved to Chat Moss with electrification and the via Runcorn route to WCML is presumably closed for engineering work.
Getting out, however, involves crossing the entire throat of Lime Street Station or crossing over at Edge Hill East Jn
Given that Virgin will want to keep their drivers up to date on the route so they can be diverted that way, I guess they'll reroute one train a week (probably on a Sunday) to go via Earlestown so all the drivers can cycle through it occasionally.
The route via Runcorn is 18 miles 79 chains from Weaver Junction. At the current PSRs, it could be done in 17 minutes 40 seconds without a stop at Runcorn.
The Earlestown diversion is 27 miles 13 chains from Weaver Junction. At the current PSRs, it could be done in 23 minutes 19 seconds. Raising the PSR from Broad Green station to Earlestown Station (ie retaining Broad Green to Edge Hill at 75) to 90mph from 75mph would lower that to 21 minutes 51 seconds.
The numbers in the other direction will be marginally different, of course (the speed limits start and finish in different places in different directions).
Obviously those are theoretical timings with no slack and instant accelerations and brakings - slowing down to 20 mph for the Earlestown junction will cost a lot more time than the 50-odd seconds actually spent in the PSR.
Still, no TOC is going to want to sacrifice that amount of time and a stop, other than for engineering works.
Getting a train into Liverpool station from the Chat Moss direction won't be too bad - platforms 7 and 8 only create conflicting movements against a train leaving towards South Parkway, which would only be the locals on CLC (to / via Warrington Central) and perhaps the Norwich trains, as the Transpennines will have moved to Chat Moss with electrification and the via Runcorn route to WCML is presumably closed for engineering work.
Getting out, however, involves crossing the entire throat of Lime Street Station or crossing over at Edge Hill East Jn
Given that Virgin will want to keep their drivers up to date on the route so they can be diverted that way, I guess they'll reroute one train a week (probably on a Sunday) to go via Earlestown so all the drivers can cycle through it occasionally.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
From experience of the Lime St-Warrington BQ service, the approach control for the junction at Earlestown from the west is painful.
You come to a near stand west of Sankey Viaduct, before crawling over it and then through the extended junction crossovers.
This bit is in the process of being resignalled, so it will be interesting to see if this improves.
Currently, the Liverpool Docks-WCML coal trains take out a large capacity chunk out of both lines at his location.
Four masts now in place just west of Rainhill Farm Fields 76 Steps Footbridge, almost ruined the traditional but classic east bound photo shot now. Once mast is up right by footbridge, the shot has gone! Looking east and on south side of line, masts bases still not completed, so still be a little time yet.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Mast count east of Rainhill is now 47 (on the Down line at least).
Rainhill-Lea Green 8 (big gap in the middle)
Lea Green-St Helens Jn 17
St Helens Jn-Collins Green (short of Sankey Viaduct) 22
Some more bases have gone in between Roby and Huyton (south side).
DJH1971
Established Member
Gaining a bit of momentum again, especially with this news of between Roby and Huyton now!
I admit, I was wrong when I thought I saw a small bit of caternary near St Helens on the Huyton to Wigan branch.
Turned out to be telegraph wires after all!
YorkshireBear
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I once met a man who proposed that exact same thing to me on a train from York to Harrogate after a meeting about HS2 at the NRM.
DJH1971
Established Member
Saw more workmen lineside today between Lea Green and Rainhill, and also between Huyton to Whiston.
Work on the extra tracks is now starting to take shape at Huyton, whilst the Balfour Beatty engineering train in Tuebrook sidings appeared to be getting loaded with more OHL structures and equipment.
Click on this link for view of the Huyton Quarry sub station work site - taken on 24th March 14 --- https://picasaweb.google.com/104517...icationWorkMerseyside2014#5997104196609059314
Prodigy
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Hey guys, forgive me if it's the wrong place to ask this. But I notice that Manchester Victoria - Stalybridge line is scheduled to be electrified. What about beyond Stalybridge, i.e Mossley etc?
Received a bit of info in email today at work
Might as well post here. There was also a nice signaling diagram that I will try and post here as soon as I can.
A 9 day blockade is planned at Huyton starting 05/07/14 till 13/07/14
Two trains per hour St Helens Central Wigan/Preston
One train per hour Vic - Earlstown using platforms 4 and 5
This is for works on the Sankey Viaduct and construction of the new junction at Roby and Huyton
Also blockades on the Bolton Preston line for the installation of slab track for the OHLE, one month long closure coming up in August.
Might as well post here. There was also a nice signaling diagram that I will try and post here as soon as I can.
A 9 day blockade is planned at Huyton starting 05/07/14 till 13/07/14
Two trains per hour St Helens Central Wigan/Preston
One train per hour Vic - Earlstown using platforms 4 and 5
This is for works on the Sankey Viaduct and construction of the new junction at Roby and Huyton
Also blockades on the Bolton Preston line for the installation of slab track for the OHLE, one month long closure coming up in August.
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LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
That stretch comes under TP electrification.
The wiring work is due to start March 2016 and run through to December 2018 (to Leeds/York/Selby).
Guide Bridge-Stalybridge is also 2018.
Victoria-Stalybridge (NW scheme) is December 2016.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Stalybridge will be done before the main Transpennine scheme, partly because there will be an AC feeder there which will be needed to supply power for the extra trains on the other routes (assuming some EMUs are found!). Some trains that terminate there can also be converted to EMU.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Excellent. Looks like they are on schedule then.
I assume the slab track is going in the larger Farnworth Tunnel prior to enlargement work starting on the smaller one?
LDECRexile
Established Member
According to the current RAIL (Issue 745, pp34-37, esp p36) the Up bore is to be reinstated as double-track and enlarged for 100mph electrics over a 20 week closure from Easter 2015. The single Down bore will be used bi-directionally to maintain 3tph each way during the closure.
The original plan to make the Down bore large enough for electric trains has been abandoned.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Very sensible, and much cheaper I imagine.
I think the work at Farnworth tunnels is next year. According to a post on SSC yesterday:
I think until yesterday's update they were planning to do both routes to Stalybridge by Dec 2016, but the Guide Bridge route wouldn't have been much used by electrics for two years.
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I think until yesterday's update they were planning to do both routes to Stalybridge by Dec 2016, but the Guide Bridge route wouldn't have been much used by electrics for two years.
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