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Cambrian hourly service consultation

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Rhydgaled

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I will be using the 0927 shrewsbury - aber on saturday. Will this be x1 158, x2 158 or even 3 158s? And how busy is this service likely to be?
I think the only 3x158 working is the 09:30 from Aberystwyth east of Machynlleth. Also, I've just checked on realtime trains and it says the 09:27 Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth has a Cambrian coast portion, so it will probably be 4 coaches (2x158) to Machynlleth and a single 158 from there to Aberystwyth.

In my experience (on evening services though), the Aberystwyth portion tends to have well over half the seats taken, don't know about the coast portion.
 
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Gareth Marston

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I think the only 3x158 working is the 09:30 from Aberystwyth east of Machynlleth. Also, I've just checked on realtime trains and it says the 09:27 Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth has a Cambrian coast portion, so it will probably be 4 coaches (2x158) to Machynlleth and a single 158 from there to Aberystwyth.

In my experience (on evening services though), the Aberystwyth portion tends to have well over half the seats taken, don't know about the coast portion.

As a general rule of thumb this service will be busier on a Saturday than mid week and can be on the verge of overcrowded in holiday times so this weekend maybe quite busy as some English schools will be on Easter half term. The Aberystwyth portion will be the furthest away from the buffers at Shrewsbiury and after departure when the conductor does a full ticket check you will see a steady column of people who have got in the wrong portion shuffling forward even though waiting an hour til Machynlleth is more sensible. If the weathers nice you may get folk from Welshpool and Newtown heading to the coast also.

However a word of warning if Shrewsbury are short of 158's this is the diagram that runs short formed. 0624 Salop to INTL and 0809 InTL to Aberystwyth/Barmouth.
 

Parallel

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The Aberystwyth portion will be the furthest away from the buffers at Shrewsbiury and after departure when the conductor does a full ticket check you will see a steady column of people who have got in the wrong portion shuffling forward even though waiting an hour til Machynlleth is more sensible. If the weathers nice you may get folk from Welshpool and Newtown heading to the coast also.

It never ceases to amaze me how many people get on at the wrong half, despite how the electronic information display boards at Shrewsbury show which halves are which, and the autoannouncers say "For Welshpool, Newtown, Caersws, Machynlleth, Dovey Junction, Borth and Aberystwyth, travel in the front coaches of the train. And for Welshpool, Newtown, Caersws, Machynlleth, Dovey Junction, Penhelig, Aberdovey, Tywyn etc etc travel in the rear two coaches of the train." There are some quite tight connections at Shrews though so I understand that some people might completely miss them. Is it announced at Birmingham similarly?

Rather interestingly, the other day I was travelling from Aberystwyth to Shrewsbury, and the Cambrian coast train was delayed by 5-10 mins and both trains arrived into Dovey Junction at the same time!

On a previous journey before, we were on a 2 car 158 from Aberystwyth but the guard said as we got into Mach that it'd terminate there and we'd have to get off and wait for the 4 coaches were coming from the Cambrian coast. I have only ever seen this happen once, however.
 

transmanche

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It never ceases to amaze me how many people get on at the wrong half, despite how the electronic information display boards at Shrewsbury show which halves are which, and the autoannouncers say "For Welshpool, Newtown, Caersws, Machynlleth, Dovey Junction, Borth and Aberystwyth, travel in the front coaches of the train. And for Welshpool, Newtown, Caersws, Machynlleth, Dovey Junction, Penhelig, Aberdovey, Tywyn etc etc travel in the rear two coaches of the train.".
I can't remember what I've seen happen at Shrewsbury, but on every train I've travelled on except one, the on-board destination displays have just been displaying the default ATW message. The one exception was when it said that the rear portion was for Aberystwyth - which obviously meant moving to the front unit when the conductor advised us correctly.

Is it announced at Birmingham similarly?
Again, in my experience at Birmingham New St, I've only ever heard the train announced as going to Aberystwyth - no mention at all of a portion for the coast (and thus no mention of having to travel in a specific portion of the train). The same goes for the departure boards.
 

Gareth Marston

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Carriage labelling and announcements with ATW ten yeArs and they still can't get it right or consistent !

The pre record at a Shrewsbury says front coach and rear coach in the singular, though the LM 170 in Platform 6 with its engines running never helps. Forget New St your lucky you get an announcement it's an ATW train to Wales.

Sometimes you just have to get in New St and worry about portion later especially in the PM a lot of people get off at Welshpool and Newtown making space so waiting till Caersws to move is usually the best option.
 

PHILIPE

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Do passengers get into the wrong portion because the reversal at Shrewsbury can create confusion as to which is front and which is rear ?
 

Rhydgaled

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It never ceases to amaze me how many people get on at the wrong half, despite how the electronic information display boards at Shrewsbury show which halves are which, and the autoannouncers say "For Welshpool, Newtown, Caersws, Machynlleth, Dovey Junction, Borth and Aberystwyth, travel in the front coaches of the train. And for Welshpool, Newtown, Caersws, Machynlleth, Dovey Junction, Penhelig, Aberdovey, Tywyn etc etc travel in the rear two coaches of the train."
The announcements are pretty useless, since the train reverses at Shrewsbury it is hard to know which is front and which is rear. Personally, I use the logic that the Aberystwyth portion is normally timed to depart Machynlleth first, meaning it must be the front portion at Machynlleth and therefore the furthest unit from the buffers in the bay platform at Shrewsbury. Also that being in the front unit means you can change at Dovey Junction if you find you're on the wrong line when you get there.

Also:
The pre record at a Shrewsbury says front coach and rear coach in the singular
Indeed it does. I've thought on a number of occasions, "where are folk supposed to think the middle two coaches are going to?" or "stupid system, don't you know 158s are 2-car units?"
 

Parallel

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The pre record at a Shrewsbury says front coach and rear coach in the singular

It definitely used to, but when I caught a train on Friday from Shrewsbury, the auto announcer definitely lists the Aberystwyth portion as being the "front coaches", and the Barmouth portion as being "the rear two coaches" - Presumably it's a recent change to try and avoid confusion to passengers. I think it's a great move as there were always more than two coaches in the first place!
 

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merlodlliw

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It definitely used to, but when I caught a train on Friday from Shrewsbury, the auto announcer definitely lists the Aberystwyth portion as being the "front coaches", and the Barmouth portion as being "the rear two coaches" - Presumably it's a recent change to try and avoid confusion to passengers. I think it's a great move as there were always more than two coaches in the first place!

That is very clever technology, my computer is soundless & the dam laptop is on the blink, so I can not enjoy,well done though.

Bob
 

D1009

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Well trains actually currently are scheduled per the WTT to arrive at Aberystwyth at xx:23 and return at xx:30 (7 minute turnaround), and then proceed from Shrewsbury to Birmingham after waiting 7 minutes there, which is in effect a new journey.

So I don't see why it can be done for the new services?
No the problem is the ability to recover from delays. Currently in the event of late running the International services can be terminated at New Street or even Wolverhampton to recover from delays and return right time, and passengers only have to wait a few minutes. You can't really terminate at Welshpool and tell people to wait for the next one.
 

jones_bangor

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It's to start in May 2015:

Elin Jones (@ElinCeredigion) tweeted at 8:07 PM on Mon, Apr 07, 2014:
Just had confirmation of hourly am & evening train services Aber -Shrewsbury. Mon-Sat. 2 new Sun return services. #itsbeenalongtimecoming
(https://twitter.com/ElinCeredigion/status/453247768166170624)

This would be good news.

I suggest that Welsh Government / DfT should explore the possibility of a morning Aber - Shrewsbury - Euston Voyager and evening return as part of the West Coast franchise.
 

transmanche

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I suggest that Welsh Government / DfT should explore the possibility of a morning Aber - Shrewsbury - Euston Voyager and evening return as part of the West Coast franchise.
There's zero chance of that happening in the short/medium term, as Voyagers lack the ETCS on-board equipment to work with the ERTMS signalling system used on the Cambrian.

And they'll only get fitted with ETCS when ERTMS is rolled out on their 'core' routes.
 

Arglwydd Golau

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There's zero chance of that happening in the short/medium term, as Voyagers lack the ETCS on-board equipment to work with the ERTMS signalling system used on the Cambrian.

And they'll only get fitted with ETCS when ERTMS is rolled out on their 'core' routes.

Yes, that is of course correct, I wonder, tho', whether ERTMS has actually brought any overall benefits to the average Cambrian passenger? Surely one of the problems with ERTMS is that it prevents a one-off improvement to the service, as Jones_Bangor suggests, from happeneing (even if there was a spare Voyager!)
 

merlodlliw

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It's to start in May 2015:

Elin Jones (@ElinCeredigion) tweeted at 8:07 PM on Mon, Apr 07, 2014:
Just had confirmation of hourly am & evening train services Aber -Shrewsbury. Mon-Sat. 2 new Sun return services. #itsbeenalongtimecoming
(https://twitter.com/ElinCeredigion/status/453247768166170624)

I am very surprised this info comes today when The Assembly is in recess for a month since last Thursday,I am more surprised it comes from a Plaid AM and not from the Minister, it may appear good, but its not official yet with funding to run the extra services. I am now wondering where the funding from WG revenue account 2015/16 will come from,plus who will get the chop,Fishguard Trial/Wagair etc to pay for it. Tomorrow will tell us more.

Bob
 
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transmanche

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Yes, that is of course correct, I wonder, tho', whether ERTMS has actually brought any overall benefits to the average Cambrian passenger?
Well that's a matter of separate debate, because there were obviously some big early teething problems - and other issues that you might expect when deploying new technology for the first time. But I don't think we'd be getting the (almost) hourly service without ERTMS.

YSurely one of the problems with ERTMS is that it prevents a one-off improvement to the service, as Jones_Bangor suggests, from happeneing (even if there was a spare Voyager!)
Well, that's the real issue - ERTMS or not, there's really very little chance of a VT Voyager service from Aberystwyth to London... just look at the difficulties in getting VT to restore a single daily Shrewsbury-London service.
 

Gareth Marston

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I am very surprised this info comes today when The Assembly is in recess for a month since last Thursday,I am more surprised it comes from a Plaid AM and not from the Minister, it may appear good, but its not official yet with funding to run the extra services.

Bob

Yes Bob it's not official another person trying to claim the credit? She's been beaten to it by Robert Robinson Welshpool Town Clerk and Glyn Davies MP.:lol:
 

The Planner

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ERTMS got dumped on the Cambrian as it is basically a self contained test track. With the right infrastructure you could have had an enhanced service with RETB.
 

merlodlliw

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Here is the WG statement embargoed to today, I mentioned this in an earlier thread.

Under embargo until 00:01 Tuesday, 8 April 2014

Tuesday, 8 April 2014
Cymraeg isod
New services for Cambrian and Heart of Wales rail lines

New peak hourly trains between Aberystwyth and Shrewsbury will be among extra services to be funded by the Welsh Government on the Cambrian and Heart of Wales rail lines, Transport Minister Edwina Hart announced today (Tuesday, 8 April).

Four additional return services will operate between Aberystwyth and Shrewsbury, Mondays - Saturdays, with hourly services for peak morning and afternoon times. There will also be two new return Sunday services, and an improvement to evening services on the Cambrian Coast between Barmouth and Pwllheli.

On the Heart of Wales line, there will be extra journeys between Llandovery and Gowerton/Swansea and between Llandrindod and Shrewsbury/Crewe offering good morning commuting opportunities on Mondays – Fridays. Other return services will become more conveniently timed and the Heart of Wales Line Forum gets funding to explore the possibility of further improvements to the line.

The new services will create 20 new train crew and depot jobs. The changes, which will be on an initial three-year trial basis, will come into place from May 2015.

Announcing the new services, Mrs Hart said: “I am very pleased that we have been able to secure the extra train services on these two popular lines. I recently commissioned a survey which clearly demonstrated the benefits to commuters, local businesses and university students of an hourly service on the Cambrian line.
“There is also a clear demand for increased services on the Heart of Wales Line and these improvements will mean commuting journeys into Swansea from this line will be possible for the first time. This investment demonstrates our commitment to supporting public transport, which is a vital way for many people, including some of the most vulnerable in our society, to access jobs and services.”

The news was welcomed by Cllr Mansel Williams, Chair of the Aberystwyth – Shrewsbury Railway Liaison Committee and Heart of Wales Line Forum.

He said: “This is excellent news for the people of Mid Wales. Both the Cambrian and Heart of Wales lines provide a vital service for residents, commuters, tourists and students in the area. We received a very strong response to our survey about services on the Cambrian main and the coast railway lines, which backed-up the support there has been locally for an hourly service, particularly in the commuting peaks.

“The Heart of Wales Line survey also highlighted the impracticality of commuting with the current timetable, particularly southwards into Swansea. I am delighted the Minister and Arriva Trains have been able to find a way to deliver these additional trains which I am sure will provide a significant boost to the Mid Wales and local economy.”

Notes

The additional services on both railways are designated for a three year trial under Section 36 of the Railways Act 2005 “experimental services” designation. The services will be reviewed after the first year and annually.

Cambrian Railway
The trial will provide 4 additional return services, in each direction, between Aberystwyth and Shrewsbury Mondays - Saturdays, including hourly peak services for morning and afternoon, plus two new return Sunday services, and an improvement to evening services on the Cambrian Coast between Barmouth and Pwllheli.

Heart of Wales Line
The trial will provide additional morning journeys Mondays - Fridays between Carmarthen and Llandovery, returning to Swansea for an arrival at 8.16, and from Shrewsbury to Llandrindod returning to Shrewsbury with a 7.58 arrival and continuing to Crewe arriving at 8.50. These services are additional to the current four return journeys along the line and provide improved commuting opportunities, and later services will become more conveniently timed with some journeys being extended to start from/terminate at Crewe.

The lead time for the recruitment and training of staff means that the additional services will commence at the earliest possible timetable change date in May 2015.

The Heart of Wales Line Forum will receive a grant of £150,000 to undertake a further research into community rail development and potential alternative local management arrangements for rail services. The Forum will submit a further report to the Minister at the end of the year.
 

berneyarms

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Great news - well done to all the campaigners.

Hopefully people will act with their feet and use the new services when they are introduced.
 

merlodlliw

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Great news - well done to all the campaigners.

Hopefully people will act with their feet and use the new services when they are introduced.

It is very good news to secure WG revenue funding,the stock as to be 158s,so where will they come from & what will replace them,North Wales to Manchester is a good candidate with four units(8 coach) on the 0710 & 0740 service from Chester,the only other stock has to be loco haul hired in from contractors to replace them, plus of course other current revenue account transport will have to pay for this,in my opinion.Excellent news to get more rail services.
 

The Planner

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The changes, which will be on an initial three-year trial basis, will come into place from May 2015.

Cheeky caveat in there, in other words, make sure you use them or we'll take them out again.
 
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Any news on what rolling stock will be used for this?

Fairly sure all of ATW's units are used to their maximum as it is.
 
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