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Class 60's to Colas

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61653 HTAFC

61653 HTAFC

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#1 driver said:
why have a heavy haul loco that will pull 60mph trains up to 60mph and have it geared for MORE than that ?
it doesn't make sense !
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I wasn't discussing the gearing- simply that I had heard on this forum (and yes, I know a LOT of things get said on here but it doesn't make them true!) that trains had to hit the 'max. +10%' safely. In the case of the 60s, that'd be 66mph- though the '+10%' rule may have come after they were introduced (or the 63mph cut-off function mentioned upthread was introduced on the locos later).
I'd hazard a guess that having to go 10% overspeed is more to do with the unit/loco being able to brake safely and within a certain distance FROM that speed than anything else though! That's obviously going to be less of an issue on a heavy freight loco pulling fully braked wagons at a maximum of 60mph I suppose.
 
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Bevan Price

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Maximum speed is an artificial concept, often applied to minimise wear & tear on a loco, its components, or the track. In older locos, this just took the form of instructions to the train crew. In more recent locos / multiple units, the control electronics is set to prevent locos exceeding the specified maximum. Without such controls, if you could put a Class 60 on a light passenger train, in theory it could probably travel at the same speed as a Class 67. Of course, not being designed for high speed, it would probably be somewhat "knackered" after running at high speed - undesirable and expensive in terms of repairs.
 
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junglejames

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#1 driver said:
why have a heavy haul loco that will pull 60mph trains up to 60mph and have it geared for MORE than that ?
it doesn't make sense !
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I dont know. I wasnt privvy to the design process of them. I can only go by what i have seen, both on here and elsewhere. Nobody seems to have a definitive answer. Time for Mr Brush!!
 
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ExRes

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Please don't kick me too hard as I'm only putting forward something I've read on the infamous Wikipedia site

It claims that 59/2s are fitted with yaw dampers enabling the increased speed of 75mph, mind you, it also says that 59/1s were fitted likewise and proceeds to claim a max of 60mph for them

Is the contributor correct with 59/2s being fitted and wrong with 59/1s ?, it's a possibility that yaw dampers are the reason as increased speed and stability are the purpose they're made for
 
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The 59's are all almost certainly geared for 75mph. I'm sure I remember reading about some freight haulage tests where a 59/2 used at up to 75mph.
 
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ExRes

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Not addressed to you specifically #1, just an open question that someone far more technically minded than me may be able to answer
 
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junglejames

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#1 driver said:
really ?

how many times do you have to be told ?
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OK, how about i cant decide on what is correct or not?
I know you keep saying one thing, but I have also heard different from elsewhere.
I am by no means disregarding what you say, but I am hearing different things from different people, all of which apparently know what they are talking about. So what do I believe? Gearing for 60, or gearing for 75?
Sorry, but to me I just dont know.
 
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Beveridges

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I just don't know either. I may be right or wrong. But the 59s have very similar performance to the 60s and they are geared for 75mph, so maybe the 60s are as well?
 
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455driver

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ExRes said:
It claims that 59/2s are fitted with yaw dampers enabling the increased speed of 75mph, mind you, it also says that 59/1s were fitted likewise and proceeds to claim a max of 60mph for them
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Further to this- 458/0s have yaw dampers and do 90mph, 458/5 dont have yaw dampers and do 75mph.
It is well known that yaw dampers are required above 75mph on multiple units even where he rest of the bogie is identical. Yaw dampers are only used to control the bogie movement and have no effect on gearing so will only be fitted where the bogie is geared for more than 75mph max speed.

59/2s were originally 75mph when used on their original limestone and coal traffic, whether they actually run above 60 in service I dont know.
 
O L Leigh

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455driver said:
It is well known that yaw dampers are required above 75mph on multiple units even where he rest of the bogie is identical. Yaw dampers are only used to control the bogie movement and have no effect on gearing so will only be fitted where the bogie is geared for more than 75mph max speed.
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Ah, um...

The fitting of yaw dampers has nothing to do with gearing either. Cl320s were built to operate services on the North Clyde route where a 75mph maximum speed was adequate and so were built without yaw dampers. However, subsequent cascading of units following the opening of the Airdrie line saw them moved onto other lines and so they were fitted with yaw dampers and the maximum speed increased to 90mph. As far as I am able to ascertain, the units were not re-geared to permit this higher speed running.

In fact, given that they were built subsequent to the Cl321 units and only in smaller numbers, I would surmise that they have the same final drive gearing as their more numerous English cousins and were, therefore, geared for 100mph running from new. None of this has anything to do with the much vaunted 10% overspeed that we seem to hear so much about.

O L Leigh
 
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ExRes

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Are they being hauled by 08s geared for 60mph ............ ok folks don't get tetchy, it was just a thought
 
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junglejames

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ExRes said:
Are they being hauled by 08s geared for 60mph ............ ok folks don't get tetchy, it was just a thought
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<D
Anyway ive decided. Its not 75 they are geared for. Its 74:D
The 60s that is, not the 08s!
 
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sd0733

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There were 4 or 5 of the class 60s which were stored at crewe being taken away yesterday about 18:00 top and tailed by a colas 56 and 66. I was working at the time so that's as much detail as I've got I'm afraid!
 
breadfan

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Photos on one of the facebook groups I am subscribed to show 5 being moved, top and tailed by a 66 and 56. It reports the 5 are 60002/95/47/76/56.
 
Boothby97

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martinsh said:
The ones left at Crewe are 29, 38 and 46 - that means 3 have left.
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There were 8 visible on Tuesday, 60002/029/038/046/047/095 (next to the mainline), and 60028/056 (at the back of the depot). 60055/076/082 are also stored there.

If it was 60002/047/056/076/095 (as posted above) that have left, then 60028/029/038/046/055/082 remain there.
 
fgwrich

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Virtually the same post in this and the Colas Class 70 thread from me.

I'm rather surprised know-one has picked up on the Colas Rail news today - 70810 has arrived into Seaforth Docks today and will be departing next week, whilst 70808 has gone on hire to Freightliner whilst their own 70s go through another mod programme at Brush Loughborough - 2 at a time, and the mods include fitting the extra cooling system that the Colas ones were delivered with.

Also in Colas news today and more relevant to this thread, 60087 has emerged - the first from DBs Super 60 overhaul for Colas - in Colas Rails livery with the next due shortly.


http://www.wnxx.com/14/1405/290514/60087A.htm

They will soon be going onto the Ribblehead logs to replace the Class 56s on that service, with the intention of increasing the maximum loadings again back to 20.

Oh and the planed move for the Colas 60096 in St Blazey with 50007 and 56078 has apparently been cancelled.
 
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87019Chris

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Well its great to see the 60's being used again, they are a great loco with plenty of life left in them. Also when will the start date for them on the Ribblehead logs obviously after driver training and so on? also what else will they be used on steel, coal?
 
fgwrich

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87019Chris said:
Well its great to see the 60's being used again, they are a great loco with plenty of life left in them. Also when will the start date for them on the Ribblehead logs obviously after driver training and so on? also what else will they be used on steel, coal?
Click to expand...

Not sure yet, but 60087 Should be out and about next week. Their initial use will be on the Logs as it will mean the logs can go back to the pre 56 loadings of 20 KFAs as it used to run when the 66s were used.

I think... Colas's plan will go something on the lines of this.

37s - Jobs that can't be handled by larger locos with restrictions on certain routes. If fitted with some form of ETRMS then that will include use on the Cambrian.
47s - Stock Moves and other jobs.
56s - Steel Traffic, Oil / Fuel jobs.
60s - Logs, heavy freights, possibly for fuel / oil jobs?
66s - Coal, Oil / Fuel jobs.
70s - Network Rail NDS work.

That said, I wonder if there is a plan to ultimately replace the 66s, either with more 60s or new build 70s. The 5 66s could then be sold onto GBRF.


And speaking of Colas and their locos, here is the first picture of 37219 now in Colas RailFreight livery.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd...._=1401585178_7834059d51dc9469e333e413a78a1af9
 
al.currie93

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And speaking of Colas and their locos, here is the first picture of 37219 now in Colas RailFreight livery.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd...._=1401585178_7834059d51dc9469e333e413a78a1af9[/QUOTE]

Bit off topic sorry, but what was the deal with the 37s? I know they came out of preservation (correct me if I'm wrong!), but did they buy them off whoever owned them outright, or is it some form of lease? Are they also marked to return to preservation once Colas are done with them, or is that also uncertain? Thanks :)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The Class 60 and Class 37 both look beautiful by the way :P
 
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