Fowey Branch

I have a vague memory of seeing a photo in an old RAIL magazine showing a 150/2 on the freight-only branch to Fowey. The caption said it was a trial service that ran during the summer and was from sometime in the late 1980s or early 1990s. The internet seems short of any detail of this operation and I wondered if anyone on here has a memory of it.
Given that the railway is in place, I'm slightly surprised it doesn't come up on the forums more often.

I'd also like to know what sort of things would be required in terms of infrastructure in order for the branch to re-open, and whether it would have much potential beyond use for summer-holidaymakers...

Thoughts?

I do agree with you. I think it would brilliant to see some kind of service down there. The pictures you mention are on this site

http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/lostwihiel-to-fowey-branch.html

Both Golant and Fowey stations were demolished and both of these two former station areas are now just car parks (a sign of the times). Part of the line to Fowey was converted to a private roadway for the use of the lorries carrying china clay.

Birdbrain said:

I do agree with you. I think it would brilliant to see some kind of service down there. The pictures you mention are on this site

http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/lostwihiel-to-fowey-branch.html

Click to expand...

Thanks for the quick response! It sounds like the trials weren't a success, but perhaps were limited in their scope, and 1994 (later than I thought!) probably wasn't the best timing with privatisation on its way! A shame, as I imagine it would cost far more in real terms to restore the line now :roll:.

Perhaps in a few years when we have DMUs coming out of our ears following all the planned electrification (even allowing for the probable loss of most or all the 'Nodding Donkeys') there might be another chance...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Paul Sidorczuk said:

Both Golant and Fowey stations were demolished and both of these two former station areas are now just car parks (a sign of the times). Part of the line to Fowey was converted to a private roadway for the use of the lorries carrying china clay.

Click to expand...

In my own (limited, admittedly) research before posting this thread, I saw suggestions that the freight use of the line (and associated facilities which I've bolded) might not be long for the world. In this instance might it be wise for local authorities in the area to seek to safeguard the land to allow re-opening to passengers if a business case can be made?

Some further reading. At the very bottom of the RUS reopening Fowey station is listed as a stakeholder aspiration, but not converting the line. By stakeholder aspiration, NR mean what the public want but they aren't interested in. Notice that most of them are rural areas, and few urban demands go wanting.

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse%20documents/rus%20documents/route%20utilisation%20strategies/great%20western/great%20western%20rus.pdf

It's likely that the local authority would have to lead on this/put all the money up. Prior to being a unitary authority, the local Restormel Council had identified an aspiration for passenger services.

http://www.cornwall.gov.uk/media/3635137/LP-Part-4.pdf

Anyone whose been to Fowey knows the roads are bad, and that a park and ride would be popular in the summer. The trouble is that 1) a deal would have to be struck with Imerys to extend the track along its private road to an accessible site, 2) Lostwithiel would be an awful place for a park and ride, given it's just as difficult to get to, and the track layout/signalling would need revising at what is not a busy station. It would certainly need through services to Plymouth (which combine with the aspirations for more stopping services Plymouth-Liskeard) or an imaginative extension of the Newquay branch services.

All a little too costly I would expect. Though a shame that the capacity/picturesque line is wasted (the latter all the more relevant now that Dawlish seems to be a tourist attraction itself)

Paul Sidorczuk said:

Both Golant and Fowey stations were demolished and both of these two former station areas are now just car parks (a sign of the times). Part of the line to Fowey was converted to a private roadway for the use of the lorries carrying china clay.

Click to expand...

61653 HTAFC said:

Thanks for the quick response! It sounds like the trials weren't a success, but perhaps were limited in their scope, and 1994 (later than I thought!) probably wasn't the best timing with privatisation on its way! A shame, as I imagine it would cost far more in real terms to restore the line now :roll:.

Perhaps in a few years when we have DMUs coming out of our ears following all the planned electrification (even allowing for the probable loss of most or all the 'Nodding Donkeys') there might be another chance...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


In my own (limited, admittedly) research before posting this thread, I saw suggestions that the freight use of the line (and associated facilities which I've bolded) might not be long for the world. In this instance might it be wise for local authorities in the area to seek to safeguard the land to allow re-opening to passengers if a business case can be made?

Click to expand...

Sadly so - I looked into this last year and whilst the originally trackbed of the route between Lostwithiel to Carne Point / Fowey to Par & St Blazey is still there, the section from the Carne Point unloading terminal around to Fowey and Par is now a roadway for the transportation of dried clay from Par Docks to Carne Point, and Fowey Station site is as you say now a car park. If any passenger service reinstating were to happen, then you could use a low cost modular system for Golant (if the passenger demand were to warrant a platform here), but a solution would be needed to bypass the sidings at Carne Point whilst allowing a single track platform for the town, probably capable of holding at least a single 150 or 2 153s.

There are a few pictures of the branches past and present on the rest of the Cornwall Railway Society website you've linked too:

http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/a-day-on-the-clay.html

http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/st-blazey-to-fowey-and-fowey-harbour.html

Another good website area to look at if your interested in Cornish Branches is the Railways of Cornwall Section on RMweb.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/in...ort_by=Z-A&sort_key=last_post&topicfilter=all

A large modern building which was used by Customs for a short time stands close to where the wooden Station buildings were. The track bed is now the private 'Haul Road', which leads to Par Harbour via Pinnock Tunnel.
There is little space atm to reinstate a railway to Carne Point.

Close to the granite wall by the road, now a car park stood the camping coaches. There were several sidings there.
Carne point is a mile from Fowey.
The tours in the 90's cost I think about £5 per passenger. Money was also raised for charity. (I thought it ran for 2 years)
Something like 3 trips per Sunday were made.
I believe it cost £900 to hire the train with crew from BR.
Privatization killed the venture off - The next Season they invented Railtrack which wanted £500 for track access! :roll: (In addition to the hire of the DMU from BR)
A lot of people blamed the loss of Fowey Station was partly due to the lease that BR made and the China Clay company, rather than Beeching.
One of the most scenic railways in GB.
As the China Clay industry shrinks, perchance the railway may reopen in the distant future?
The Station Master's house, now flats, built with grey stone was to be the station, but GWR were refused PP to fill in part of Caffa Mill Pill. It was filled in in the 60's and now is a ferry/ dingy/ car park.

Travelled on one of those Sunday specials back in June 1994 whilst on holiday in Cornwall.Turned up to see and photograph the train at Lostwithiel and even though it was fully booked, they offered me a trip if I didn't mind standing in a door vestibule area,so I jumped at the chance! Very scenic run from start to finish with an interesting commentary provided over the (class 150/2s)p.a system. Did notice at the time that the old Fowey bay platform was still intact at Lostwithiel, do not know if that is still the case 20 years on though?

I am confused by all the talk of railway replaced by road. Is the line to Fowey still in place?

The other Cornish branches have done remarkably well, any chance this one would too? How big is Fowey?

There were two routes, one from Par which was converted into a roadway for China clay trucks.The other route from Lostwithiel remained open for China clay trains.

Ash Bridge said:

There were two routes, one from Par which was converted into a roadway for China clay trucks.The other route from Lostwithiel remained open for China clay trains.

Click to expand...

Ah i see amazing that it had two routes to it. I can see the route converted for china clay lorries now. Thank you.

Sorry forgot to answer your other question, Fowey is probably similar to Looe in terms of tourism, so could probably generate similar passenger numbers during the holiday season.

Ash Bridge said:

Travelled on one of those Sunday specials back in June 1994 whilst on holiday in Cornwall.Turned up to see and photograph the train at Lostwithiel and even though it was fully booked, they offered me a trip if I didn't mind standing in a door vestibule area,so I jumped at the chance! Very scenic run from start to finish with an interesting commentary provided over the (class 150/2s)p.a system. Did notice at the time that the old Fowey bay platform was still intact at Lostwithiel, do not know if that is still the case 20 years on though?

Click to expand...

Yep, very little (except some of the track which has been replaced with concrete / steel sleepers) has been changed at Lostwithiel since the 80s, although the China Clay trains from Goonbarrow and Parkandillack now run around in the loops to the east of the station, than making any use of the former station yard, partly due to the awkwardness of the layout.

When I read threads like this I realise I'm no longer young - I used the Fowey branch pre-closure, on a Railbus if I recall correctly. Cannot pretend to remember much since I was only about 6 or 7 at the time but I do recall it was very pretty!

YorkshireBear said:

I am confused by all the talk of railway replaced by road. Is the line to Fowey still in place?

Click to expand...

Just to add to the confusion, just under a mile of the remaining lostwithiel-fowey branch has been lifted, from Carne Point to the old station site. That mile or so of track bed is now a continuation of the 'haul road' that replaced the Par-fowey line - fowey was a through station. I'd imagine that any reopening plans would be unlikely until Imerys mothball the docks.

Ash Bridge said:

Sorry forgot to answer your other question, Fowey is probably similar to Looe in terms of tourism, so could probably generate similar passenger numbers during the holiday season.

Click to expand...

Fowey is very comparable to Looe in terms of tourist numbers in the summer, as the town has an attractive waterfront and shopping centre, but the 2001 census suggests Looe is 4 times the size. Looes passenger numbers are mostly dictated by the slow and inconvenient liskeard connection, so I think a decent Fowey Service would generate similar numbers.

A Fowey to Plymouth stopping service could work, allowing HSTs to miss out Lostwithiel St Germans and Saltash, but they'd maintain a 1tp2h service to Plymouth. However, given the small population, most summer visitors to Fowey don't stay there (unlike Newquay and Looe) but stay nearby. Therefore, a summer rover service might be good, e.g. Newquay-par-lostwithiel (reverse)-fowey.

From the looks of it on Google maps,the haul road seems to go from some docks in Fowey to some in Par, what is its purpose therefore. Also, was any consideration given to the use of trains instead of trucks?

I think it may have been built as a railway- not sure why it was converted.

Par doesn't just have docks, it has processing and drying facilities. But I think Fowey may be able to take bigger ships. So it is used to move product from Par dryers to load onto ships at Fowey

higthomas said:

From the looks of it on Google maps,the haul road seems to go from some docks in Fowey to some in Par, what is its purpose therefore. Also, was any consideration given to the use of trains instead of trucks?

Click to expand...

No idea whether trains were ever considered for the connection but I think Fowey Carne Point can consolidate clay from Par onto one vessel together with loads from elsewhere in Cornwall brought in directly by train. I think Par still takes some part in processing clay brought in by pipeline from some of the nearer quarries although there have been plans to run down operations and reuse the site for alternative developments. Fowey I believe has a better draught than Par so may be able to take larger ships and perhaps the narrow river channel keeps itself naturally clear without so much dredging.

jopsuk said:

I think it may have been built as a railway- not sure why it was converted.

Par doesn't just have docks, it has processing and drying facilities. But I think Fowey may be able to take bigger ships. So it is used to move product from Par dryers to load onto ships at Fowey

Click to expand...

Correct on all counts.

When I were a lad, I had a holiday in a caravan where the roadway runs throug the middle of the site, I didnt realise it was a former railway at the time so didnt explore it further, mores the pity.

I emailed FGW regarding a Sunday summer trip to Fowey and Parkandillack freight only branches, got the bog standard reply, complete with spelling mistakes saying the 'paths' were an N.R issue but they would consider asking (The original suggestion was for an FGW DMU on a Sunday charter for enthusiasts) As it stands, there has been no further communication from FGW, somewhat predictably alas...

I'm intrigued by this branch.

Surely there's the potential for some sort of a tourist service in the summer !

If I were Cornwall county council, I'd be safeguarding the route. Perhaps they could borrow a heritage unit for it.

yorksrob said:

I'm intrigued by this branch.

Surely there's the potential for some sort of a tourist service in the summer !

If I were Cornwall county council, I'd be safeguarding the route. Perhaps they could borrow a heritage unit for it.

Click to expand...

If the old Fowey bay platform at Lostwithiel is still extant could a heritage DMU operate on to the branch avoiding use of the mainline?

Ash Bridge said:

If the old Fowey bay platform at Lostwithiel is still extant could a heritage DMU operate on to the branch avoiding use of the mainline?

Click to expand...

Good point.

Alas, by the looks of the map, the junction - bay platform isn't independent of the mainline (although from the bridge piers where the main line crosses the river Fowey, it looks as though it may have been in the past !).

Originally this Railway ran from St Blazey to Fowey. Standing on Par Bridge level crossing the right of the 5 arches is a public road, the next arch is rail to Par Docks, and the next arch was the Fowey main. the LH arch is a river. The Fowey main arch is used for a drainage channel today. The line turned left through the corner of the docks this is where the ‘Haul Road’ starts heading towards Par Beach, crossing the Fowey road at the Ship Inn, then Pinnock Tunnel - Fowey Station site then past all the jetties terminating at No 8 jetty, close to Carne Point and the existing Railway.
The long slight s bend tunnel is single track, controlled by traffic lights. There are counters to make sure all the lorries exit the tunnel before changing. There is a door on the Par end which can be closed, and 4 large extractor fans can pump out the exhaust fumes. The tunnel is lit, and corrugated iron sheets in places keep the volumes of water off the road.
Through trains once went to Newquay until 1925, after which only a workers train ran to St Blazey Stn, closing to passengers in the 30’s. (St Blazey station was next to the signal box, before the single track to Newquay. Trains often pass at that point.
The station in Fowey was at the bottom right hand corner of the Town. 5 minute level walk to the Town Centre along North Street, parallel to the river.
Most of the locals live at the top of the Town, a stiff10 minute walk, ascending 200 odd feet!
There is virtually little room for a railway between Fowey Station and Carne point 1 mile away with the Port open. Huge clay store opp 5&6 Jetties, and many pinch points. Would need 120% cooperation from the clay company - Imerys!
Crossing the Haul Road is another problem.
Alternatively a 3/4 mile tunnel under the hill between Carne Point & the station??
The rock is slate, fairly soft for boring!
The existing railway via Lostwithiel (1869) was originally built as broad gauge.
The Junction at Lostwithiel was not improved by the removal of the Fowey branch bridge over the R Fowey in the 70’s. The 2 main line bridges were replaced, as all 3 bridges were at the end of their life. Yes up to the 70's the Fowey train could run independent of the main line.
(There was no road access to the port, which was owned by BR prior to the 60’s and leasing to the clay company ECLP, which became ECC, now taken over by Imerys)

Would make a lovely scenic round trip on a heritage unit (or 2nd generation) even if you couldn't disembark at Fowey.

Good one for a railtour. Would love it if the Thumper made a visit. Sadly might be a bit out of range !

yorksrob said:

Good one for a railtour. Would love it if the Thumper made a visit. Sadly might be a bit out of range !

Click to expand...

That would be a great one for Plymouth North Road to Exeter Central via Okehampton, when it reopens

Ash Bridge said:

That would be a great one for Plymouth North Road to Exeter Central via Okehampton, when it reopens

Click to expand...

I think it would be very appropriate. A sort of Southern Region victory lap

I couldn't agree more.

Having a boat from Town Quay to Carne Point - the river is deep water at that point at all tides, and board the train there is a possibility, and was talked about - once upon a time! Great for tourists, but not for commuting etc. It is still a nice tour even staying on the train, and you get a better view from the railway, as you are several feet higher up than on a boat. Did a tour about 30 years ago, and they let us off the train at Carne Point. We also did Parkendillick, and Boscarne Junction via Bodmin (The last day BJ was open to BR traffic - detonators etc) the same day. Brilliant day out.