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What happens when you pull the emergency handle?

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Hellfire

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Interesting experience on a Pendolino last night. We were about ten minutes out of Preston when a passenger was taken ill in my carriage It seemed to be some sort of fit.

Everyone rallied round, one man went to inform the train manager who put out an appeal for any medical staff on board, In the event, two nurses came to help.

However, while all this was going on, another man leapt out of his seat and ran to pull the alarm. Several of us had to try very hard to dissuade him. Our reasoning was that we were running into a station, the train manager was on the case, and stopping the train somewhere between Leyland and Preston would not help anyone. As it turned out paramedics were waiting for the train at Preston.

The question that I ask is. If he had pulled the alarm, would the driver have instantly slammed on the brakes? Or is there some system whereby the driver can communicate with either the passenger who pulled the alarm, or the Train Manager before deciding whether to stop immediately or proceed into the next station.
 
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pemma

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Does it vary between trains? On 185s emergency alarms have a speaker underneath and a note saying 'talk to driver here' which suggests to me you'd be put in communication with the driver rather than stop the train if you activate it.
 
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Flamingo

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On my trains (HST, 15X) the PasCom operates the brakes (basically it's a dump valve for the air). It has to be reset (closed) before the train can proceed, there is no real override (pedants corner, there is, but it involves crawling under the HST and is only for use if a fault). The only way to know where it has been pulled is walk through the train looking for it on a HST (fun on a crowded after-match train in South Wales), on a 15X the orange "door" light on the relevant carriage lights up.

I've been caught out once on a HST where TWO pascoms were pulled in the same carriage, I reset one and we still couldn't get air!

Newer trains, an alarm goes off in drivers cab and a voice-link operates, which allows the driver to decide if they need to stop, and chose the most appropriate location.
 
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455driver

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On older trains it will put the brake in, which will only delay the train and more importantly the passenger getting medical attention.
On newer units the alarm will sound in the cab and the driver can elect to kick it over and then speak to whoever has pulled it. The driver will then decide which course of action is best in that particular situation.

I do get the feeling that some people think that pulling the alarm will have emergency personnel parachuting in from all directions. :lol:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I've been caught out once on a HST where TWO pascoms were pulled in the same carriage, I reset one and we still couldn't get air!

Tut tut pink bird, that is a schoolboy error, always check all the other alarms in the carriage.

Yes I have done it myself as well.:oops:
 

TEW

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When the weather gets hot TOCs always display posters and sometimes have automated announcements advising passengers not to pull the alarm if they are feeling unwell but to seek assistance at the next stop, as it will be much quicker than stopping the train in the middle of nowhere.
 

wensley

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On a Class 180 the driver can override the passcom brake application and is able to speak to the person concerned at the other end of the line. This doesn't apply to the egress handles that provide emergency door release and do apply the brakes outright. (if I remember rightly!). From memory the toilet passenger alarms also don't connect to the braking system.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong...
 

TEW

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There's normally two types of alarms in the toilets. The standard 'pass com' which would operate in the same way as any other and then the disabled alarms which normally activate a message/code on the PA for the attention of the guard, but don't operate the brakes.
 

dk1

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We can overide the pass-com on 170s but not on 90/DVTs or 2nd Gen BR units. I do believe 321s have notices asking passengers NOT to pull if a passenger is taken ill but to wait until the next station. It is hard to get this this through to passengers that it will delay the emergency response as they think they are doing the right thing. Had a similar issue with a passenger having a fit between Stowmarket & Diss when the pass-com was pulled by a nearby person. This happened in the 1st class coach right next to the buffet car where staff could have summoned help to be waiting. Instead we went from 100mph to stationary & the guard had to reset before continuing. On DOO commuter trains of upto 12-cars this could take some time.
 

John Webb

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The older 'pull the chain' system in vacuum-braked stock only caused a partial application to indicate to the driver and the guard that there was a problem. If on a bridge, in a tunnel or other place where stopping would cause more problems, the driver could carry on driving to a better spot. If in some more modern stock the alarm system applies the brakes fully, that seems to me to be a bit dodgy.
 

Tracky

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175s (and I assume 180s and 390s and others) have passcoms which, when pulled will allow the passenger to speak to the driver. He can then suppress the automatic brake application to get the train to a suitable place to stop.

150s and 158s dump air as has been said above. They must be reset locally with a T key before the train can move.

Egress systems dump the brake before the door will actually be openable.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
(On units) If a passcom is pulled the hazard light on that vehicle normally shows which is helpful on a long train...
 

transportphoto

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On older, vacuum braked stock such as a Mk1... the activation of a PassCom causes the vacuum to drop to 8 inch/Hg, this can then be reset by using a 'butterfly' on the outside of the carriage. Normally, these are at a horizontal position, however will drop to indicate which carriage the PassCom has been pulled in. To reset away from a platform, you either need long arms to reach from a droplight window or a ladder!

TP
 
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Wikipedia

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To reset away from a platform, you either need long arms to reach from a droplight window or a ladder!

Some older butterfly fitted units have steps on the ends to climb up to the valve as well, if they haven't rusted to the point of not being able to take weight that is!
 

bigdelboy

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- On a 377 small loo when doing the water whilst having my bag(s) on my shoulders, not wishing to have these mop up the liquid on the floor nor having to leave them outside to have laptop(s) half inched or outwise warning people I have been known to inadvertently operate the passcom. What then scares me is the voice out of nowhere asking if I am OK.

- I again repeat my favourite graffiti once seen on the wall of a 2-HAL compartment:

If 25 pounds you can afford,
test your strength and pull the cord,
If 25 pounds you do not own,
Leave the B***** thing alone!
 

tsr

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Egress systems dump the brake before the door will actually be openable.

Unless considerable and sustained force is applied to the doors, in which case I believe they will open on some stock. This is partly why the words "Wait until train stops", or similar, are printed on the signs by the egress handles on most trains.

I think there was an incident within the last year or so when someone fell from an Electrostar (and died) after deliberately opening the door whilst it was moving, though I might be remembering that incorrectly.
 

badassunicorn

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I think with plug door stock, the wind force at speed will help to make it harder to push open the doors
 

hassaanhc

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Unless considerable and sustained force is applied to the doors, in which case I believe they will open on some stock. This is partly why the words "Wait until train stops", or similar, are printed on the signs by the egress handles on most trains.

I think there was an incident within the last year or so when someone fell from an Electrostar (and died) after deliberately opening the door whilst it was moving, though I might be remembering that incorrectly.

I know there was a RAIB investigation where a failed FCC 377/5 set still had several egressed doors open when it was eventually moved, the report even said that passengers were still getting off when it moved off for the first time (it did also note that passengers continued to open doors even after being told not to by staff :|)
 

Bald Rick

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Unless considerable and sustained force is applied to the doors, in which case I believe they will open on some stock. This is partly why the words "Wait until train stops", or similar, are printed on the signs by the egress handles on most trains.

I think there was an incident within the last year or so when someone fell from an Electrostar (and died) after deliberately opening the door whilst it was moving, though I might be remembering that incorrectly.

You remember correctly; a good chum of mine had to give evidence at the inquest to explain how the door could not have been opened accidentally.
 

user15681

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On the 375s and 465/466s, if the Passcom is activated, the driver must put his foot on the button next to/above the deadman's pedal within 3 seconds (yellow in colour, slightly bigger on the 375s) to override the brake application. They can then talk to the passengers. The button has to remain pushed in order to move - take your foot off and the brakes apply (although pressing the button again on Electrostars will allow movement).

All the talk about doors reminds me of the gentleman who managed to open the door on a 373 on HS1 near Cheriton.
 
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LowLevel

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They also sound the horn too on 158's, from personal experience...

Do they? Whenever I've seen (and operated) the egress on a 158 it just sets off a timer and the hustle alarm as an acknowledgement, once the timer has elapsed you should theoretically be at a stand and the doors will open.
 

dk1

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When the 170s worked the through trains to Liverpool St via Ipswich I was once working a Saturday evening service & the same drunk person had accidentally operated the pass-com in the disabled toilet. First time just before Chelmsford so I put my foot on the override & reset it in the station. He then did it again near Gidea Park. As I was non-stop I kept my foot on the override all the way to London. Trouble with doing this though is that if someone then genuinely pulled another, I would not have known. I stopped in a suitable place after that. Thankfully we now no longer operate any DOO with these & now always have a guard to reset quickly.
 

headshot119

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The older 'pull the chain' system in vacuum-braked stock only caused a partial application to indicate to the driver and the guard that there was a problem. If on a bridge, in a tunnel or other place where stopping would cause more problems, the driver could carry on driving to a better spot. If in some more modern stock the alarm system applies the brakes fully, that seems to me to be a bit dodgy.

Not quite, pulling the chain on a lot of MK1 DMUs will bring the train up in a heap.
 

Llama

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They also sound the horn too on 158's, from personal experience...
Only if you count the driver being thrown forward on to the horn lever due to the emergency brake application...
 

edwin_m

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I know there was a RAIB investigation where a failed FCC 377/5 set still had several egressed doors open when it was eventually moved, the report even said that passengers were still getting off when it moved off for the first time (it did also note that passengers continued to open doors even after being told not to by staff :|)

That was related to the driver overriding the safety interlock which would normally prevent the train moving unless all doors are proved shut. I guess the driver could also do this if someone operated a door release when on the move, but I would have thought with the prospect of a door opening any driver would want the train stopped as soon as possible.
 

JB25

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As far as Southern goes:

455s - The brakes kick in straight away.

377s - We can over ride the Pass Comm until we reach an ideal place to deal with an Emergency situation.

The newer method is much better. If someone needs urgent medical attention in an 8 car 455 and the pass comm is pulled say in a tunnel then I would seriously fear for that persons life. :shock:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
That was related to the driver overriding the safety interlock which would normally prevent the train moving unless all doors are proved shut. I guess the driver could also do this if someone operated a door release when on the move, but I would have thought with the prospect of a door opening any driver would want the train stopped as soon as possible.

There was a fatality last year where someone leapt from a train doing about 80mph near Horley. The trouble is if someone egresses a 377 it sets off the Pass Comm alarm, but if they pull it again it fully opens the doors.
 

fgwrich

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- On a 377 small loo when doing the water whilst having my bag(s) on my shoulders, not wishing to have these mop up the liquid on the floor nor having to leave them outside to have laptop(s) half inched or outwise warning people I have been known to inadvertently operate the passcom. What then scares me is the voice out of nowhere asking if I am OK.

- I again repeat my favourite graffiti once seen on the wall of a 2-HAL compartment:

If 25 pounds you can afford,
test your strength and pull the cord,
If 25 pounds you do not own,
Leave the B***** thing alone!

Not having done that myself (I might add), I can see how it's easily done in those things, the design of them is cramped and poor and the passcom location is pretty stupid - I very nearly caught one recently during a heavy brake application on the BML, purely because of the silly location of it.

As for the 2 HAL graffiti, I like that one!
 

ChiefPlanner

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Many years ago - I pulled the cord on a 4EPB rattling over Blue Anchor bound for Blackheath as a door bust open. Nothing happened - hopped a bay - and pulled again. Train stopped almost dead. The brisk stop slammed the errant door shut ! - guard trudged around with some strong language - re-set and on we carried. No report made or asked for ....
 

SamS

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In my experience on Voyagers they sound an alarm over the pa system, usually a journey isn't complete without it going off once.

Is there any reason why they go off so frequently on Voyagers?
I once heard a similar alarm on a HST, but only one.
 

TheEdge

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In my experience on Voyagers they sound an alarm over the pa system, usually a journey isn't complete without it going off once.

Is there any reason why they go off so frequently on Voyagers?
I once heard a similar alarm on a HST, but only one.

On the Voyager this may be the fire alarm rather than a passcom. I remember once incident where I was on a Voyager heading to Devon, an alarm went off over the PA, train stopped and then a few minutes later the guard came over reminding us it was illegal to smoke anywhere on the train.

On the HST it may have been a call for aid alarm. On the GA Mk3s there is a call for aid alarm, triggered in the disabled loo and seating area. Simply sounds an alarm throughout the train for the attention of traincrew but doesn't impact the progress of the train.
 

40129

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On class 350s the driver can override the brake application and speak with the passenger - typically he will then ask the guard to reset the passcom. Unfortunately the passcom in the universal toilet is badly located - I have lost count of the number of passengers who have confused it for the close door or flush toilet button
 
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