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TrawsCambria / TrawsCymru

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WestyAds

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I use 701 regularly and as far as I am aware the official policy is that it is a pay as you board service.. HOWEVER you are able to make a reservation at least 24hrs before so that you can guaruntee that you will be able to get to where you want. Certainly I have heard the drivers advise people that "there is no need to pre-book... however if you know that you want to travel in advance and/ or you know that you NEED to be able to get to your destination then it is ADVISED that you pre-book" certainly from what I have seen on busy days that is very sound advice as the coach can very quickly fill up.

It is no different to Greyhound who give priority first to those that have booked on the web, followed by return ticket holders, then full fare payers, then concessionaries.... I was on the 701 the other day and heard some pensioners at swansea telling the driver they never use the greyhound now cos they never know how long it'll be before they can get a coach home!

I wonder, did you phone Bryan's Coaches and comment on the lecture you was given? I know that their customer service is 2nd to none and they would be horrified to know this had happened.

Well, perhaps the driver was just having an off day. To be honest I found it amusing more than anything else, as there can't have been more that a dozen of us on the coach - certainly not the sort of thing that warrants a complaint.

I suspect you're right about the perceived difference in speed being different from the actual one (although as I used the Megabus on a Saturday I must confess I hadn't noticed the different timings on weekdays), but if nothing else the change of scenery when we diverted from the "usual" route was a nice change.
 
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Teflon Lettuce

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..but if nothing else the change of scenery when we diverted from the "usual" route was a nice change.

lol you mean seeing the back end of Port Talbot as you whizzed past?

on a different note.. 2 separate items on the welsh news tonight..

Stagecoach have announced the closure of Brynmawr depot due to the cut in concessionary fares re-imbursement...

WAG are providing funding to improve the rail service between Aber and Shrewsbury and on the Heart of Wales line.

How comes WAG can find funds to for a service which it has no statutory duty to provide but cannot (or will not?) find the money to properly fund concessionary fares re-imbursement or socially neccessary bus services... both of which it DOES have a statutory duty to provide?
 

TheGrandWazoo

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lol you mean seeing the back end of Port Talbot as you whizzed past?

on a different note.. 2 separate items on the welsh news tonight..

Stagecoach have announced the closure of Brynmawr depot due to the cut in concessionary fares re-imbursement...

WAG are providing funding to improve the rail service between Aber and Shrewsbury and on the Heart of Wales line.

How comes WAG can find funds to for a service which it has no statutory duty to provide but cannot (or will not?) find the money to properly fund concessionary fares re-imbursement or socially neccessary bus services... both of which it DOES have a statutory duty to provide?

Can't disagree with that. Could it be that railways are more emotive (and have more votes attached to them??) Surely not

Sad to hear about Brynmawr depot going. Remember when there were depots at Crosskeys, Abergavenny and Tredegar in that part of the world. Can only surmise that the X4 will be Merthyr and the other routes from Blackwood?
 

Rhydgaled

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I won't comment on the competency of the Winkler report as I haven't read it, though TheGrandWazoo obviously has and he was scathing about it's professionalism.

what I will say is that it does appear to have been a box ticking exercise... the report seems to conclude that everything that's being done is right and perfect

why is a compromise neccessary? and how can a compromise be acceptable?

you quote a figure of 56% preferring a low floor bus over 34% preferring a coach... but they are meaningless figures... how many of those passengers were travelling long distance (ie over 90 mins) how many were travelling end to end? how many were just travelling to the nearest town from a village?
Some good points there, in particular:
  • The Winckler report appears to have been a box ticking exercise, set up to conclude that everything that's being done is right and perfect and
  • your question of how many of those passengers were travelling long distance
I do wonder whether the breif for the report said it has to back WAG up. What raises this suspicion for me is the recomendations that WAG should be pressing ahead with the T5 service and retaining the T9 as part of the network, despite these being in direct contradiction of other findings in the report. Namely, the T9 is 10 miles shorter than the suggested minimum for TrawsCymru and the T5's detour via Fishguard would make Aberystwyth-Cardigan via New Quay almost look like a direct route!

As for the second point, I think it has been stated in the past (probably the documentation that went with the TrawsCambria consultation where that 56% figure came from) that the majority of Traws passengers are making shorter hops rather than traveling the full route. However, it sounds like this was expected:
Winckler Review said:
There is no up to date evidence on passenger demand for express services, although it was concluded in 2003 that demand would not be sufficient to warrant non-stop services.
That probably is another basis for the decision to use low-floor buses*, the majority of passengers are making shorter trips so the vehicles are designed to cater for the majority while making what improvements they can (eg. better seats and legroom) for the minority who travel longer distances. I think that 2003 study (assuming that's what it was) is probably also the reason why a compromise is neccessary, the demand for long-distance travel** isn't high enough to warrant providing both a long-distance service and socially necessary local buses.

* although accessibility for disabled passengers seems to be the main one thrown about by the review and WAG.
** at least that which can be captured by road-based public transport

One of the main criticisms levelled at the 20 run by arriva was the frequent use of ordinary buses (with coach style interiors) when the coaches were unavailable for any reason
Coach style interiors? The ordinary buses I saw on the 20 a couple of times looked to be the same CymruExpress Pulsars meant for the 40/40c and 50 services, and those just had normal bus interiors.

A hard fact about commercial operation.... unless you provide the service people want then it won't be a money spinner... if the 701 is a money spinner then the operator must be doing something right!... in fact judging by the loadings now compared to this time last year I predict that the 701 will need a further journey added to cope with the summer peak demand...
There's two journeys at the moment aren't there? Even with three trips at peak summer demand, it's nowhere near the hourly service on the 40/40c. Sure, the operator's doing something right, but a handful of commertial trips per day is not enough to provide a comprehensive public transport service that can be a real alternative to the car. Take Sundays, when apart from the rail link and the 701 I don't think there is any public transport in Ceredigion. Rather useless unless you happen to be traveling on the right route at the right times.

the common fare structure was abandoned and the price of multi-operator tickets increased. So economic necessity rather than free choice meant people had to stick to one mode or another.
That sounds similar to the problem with the commertial Arriva CymruExpress services, except the mode was still bus and there was no choice (unless you got one of the few Richards Bros services) so everyone who didn't have a free pass had to pay twice*** if they were making a journey which involved different operators.

*** Or buy an expensive West Wales Rover

There was also a public "consultation in Aberystwyth bus station last weekend for 3 hours... the point of the exercise was to get public feedback on the services provided... with specific reference to 40/40c X50 and T2... this was AFTER the tender documents for 40/40c had been released.

it really does make me wonder whether WAG and local authorities are interested in providing the services our community needs or whether, as the evidence suggests they are trying to impose a network that they deem suitable with no reference to anyone...
Well, as stated above the Winckler review looks like it might have been specified to impose WAG's existing views. In fairness though some bus users' surgeries were run in the area a few weeks earlier, with the same aim of gathering feedback on X50, 40/40c etc.

I wonder does the WAG have shares in Optare? they do seem to have a fixation with Tempos... surely if they want the best compromise vehicle they would be better off choosing something more heavyweight such as Scania or Volvo... not a lightly constructed vehicle such as the Tempo?
I thought Optare refered to the Tempo as "heavy-duty"? Perhaps it is the TrawsCymru network manager who has shares in Optare. I think it was him who asked at the surgery in Cardigan whether they needed a full-size bus or could get away with something like a Versa on the X50.

I've said it before and I will say it again... leave the running of bus services to the professionals who know where the custom is, or is likely to be.
So what would a TrawsCymru network designed by the professionals look like? It might be easier to understand what is wrong with WAG's plans if I knew what the alternative was.

I really am surprised that Bryan's Coaches haven't mounted a legal challenge to the fact that there are subsidised journeys operating in direct competition with their commercial operation... something which is deemed illegal in the 1985 Transport Act... surely there can be no operational problem with the timetable for 40/ 40c being retarded by 5 mins so that the 701 is given first pickings of the passengers... which after all is required by law...

or how about approaching the operator and offering a de minimis payment for the affected journeys to encourage them to integrate their service with the tendered service... thus saving the councils money by not providing a duplicate service at those times?
I think I've pointed this out before, but if you leave an hour gap in the 40/40c in one direction to allow for the 701 there may be a 2hr gap in services in the other direction later on. That's because the 701 doesn't turn round and head back at once on reaching Carmarthen or Aberystwyth. The 40/40c vehicle would then not be in the right place to fill the gap.

my opinion of the 701 is slightly biased on account of the lecture the driver elected to give to each of us boarding at Aberystwyth last time I used the service about how we really should have telephoned the day before to let them know we were travelling, which struck me as odd for a supposedly "hop-on" service.
Since they are using coaches, I assume with no standing allowed, on a "hop-on" service, I don't think it is at all supprising that reversations are advised.

Stagecoach have announced the closure of Brynmawr depot due to the cut in concessionary fares re-imbursement...

WAG are providing funding to improve the rail service between Aber and Shrewsbury and on the Heart of Wales line.

How comes WAG can find funds to for a service which it has no statutory duty to provide but cannot (or will not?) find the money to properly fund concessionary fares re-imbursement or socially neccessary bus services... both of which it DOES have a statutory duty to provide?
Can't disagree with that. Could it be that railways are more emotive (and have more votes attached to them??) Surely not

Sad to hear about Brynmawr depot going. Remember when there were depots at Crosskeys, Abergavenny and Tredegar in that part of the world. Can only surmise that the X4 will be Merthyr and the other routes from Blackwood?
It is certainly disappointing that Stagecoach have decided to close the depot. I was hoping they (or one of the other big operators) would mount a legal challange against the WAG's cuts to concessionary fares re-imbursement.
 

adey2011

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It's been some months now since Arriva pulled out of Aberystwyth and I believe the services were taken up by other operators for a period of six months, similarly wasn't the X94 also. If that is correct does anyone know if anything has changed in that respect and if not will the services go out for tenders in the near future?
 

Bwsbro

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It's been some months now since Arriva pulled out of Aberystwyth and I believe the services were taken up by other operators for a period of six months, similarly wasn't the X94 also. If that is correct does anyone know if anything has changed in that respect and if not will the services go out for tenders in the near future?

The tender for TrawsCymru T1 Service has allready gone through tendering. No News on the other services though. Although they are running out in June
 

DaveHarries

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Just been looking on the Bus Service Registrations for the Welsh traffic area today. One item of interest:

PG0006630/176 - RED & WHITE SERVICES LTD T/A STAGECOACH IN SOUTH WALES, 1 ST. DAVIDS ROAD, CWMBRAN, NP44 1PD
Variation Accepted by SN: Operating between Cardiff and Newtown given service number T4 effective from 12-May-2014. To amend Route and Timetable.

I have looked on Stagecoach website and on Traveline but can find no info. Also I guess the date is wrong. Anyone know more info on what is changing here?

Dave
 

Rhydgaled

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The tender for TrawsCymru T1 Service has allready gone through tendering. No News on the other services though. Although they are running out in June
What stage is the process at with the T(C)1? Have they selected a prefered bidder(s) or are they still evaluating the bids?
 
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WestyAds

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Any updates? Aren't the existing iterim contracts ending this month?

Nothing official, so far as I'm aware, but I've just returned from Carmarthen and, chatting to the driver during a pause in the journey when we reached Lampeter early, he said that there's a certain amount of consternation at Lewis's as they've just found out that First will be taking over the whole of the 40/40C/T1 contract when the interim one runs out. Bad news for Lewis's (and, I assume, the Arriva drivers they took on after getting the interim contract), but potentially good news in terms of fares if First offers a day/week ticket that undercuts the West Wales Rover.

Of course, I only have the word of the driver for this at the moment, although I have no reason to doubt his word. There's a certain amount of disquiet at Lewis's, apparently, that as the tender was handled solely by Carmarthenshire County Council, the feeling was that Ceredigion-based operators didn't really get much of a look-in.

Fingers crossed First doesn't get bored with the route and pull out again like they did a few years back, when they shared it with Arriva.
 

Rhydgaled

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Nothing official, so far as I'm aware, but I've just returned from Carmarthen and, chatting to the driver during a pause in the journey when we reached Lampeter early, he said that there's a certain amount of consternation at Lewis's as they've just found out that First will be taking over the whole of the 40/40C/T1 contract when the interim one runs out. Bad news for Lewis's (and, I assume, the Arriva drivers they took on after getting the interim contract), but potentially good news in terms of fares if First offers a day/week ticket that undercuts the West Wales Rover.

Of course, I only have the word of the driver for this at the moment, although I have no reason to doubt his word. There's a certain amount of disquiet at Lewis's, apparently, that as the tender was handled solely by Carmarthenshire County Council, the feeling was that Ceredigion-based operators didn't really get much of a look-in.

Fingers crossed First doesn't get bored with the route and pull out again like they did a few years back, when they shared it with Arriva.
Indeed, bad news for Lewis' Coaches if true. Potentially also bad news for the timetable if First is going to be running it from the Carmarthen end only. It could mean a rather late first arrival in Carmarthen from Aberystwyth and a rather early last departure from Carmarthen to Aberystwyth (it was a similar story, with the place names swapped, when Arriva had the route to itself).

Drivers don't always have the facts entirely straight though, if I recall correctly one of the Richards Bros drivers thought Morris Travel (rather than First) had got part of the 40/40c contract when Arriva pulled out.
 

WestyAds

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Drivers don't always have the facts entirely straight though, if I recall correctly one of the Richards Bros drivers thought Morris Travel (rather than First) had got part of the 40/40c contract when Arriva pulled out.

Agreed, although I get the impression this guy has more to do with the company than just driving for them. Certainly in this case I'd be more willing to take the word of an employee of one of the companies directly involved than from, if you like, a third-party operator.

As to late starts/finishes in Aber, that's my worry, too - particularly as I find those exact services very useful. I suspect we won't find out about that sort of thing until such time as an official announcement is made. Hopefully, unlike Arriva's commercial service, where they could pretty much pick and choose how early to start/finish services in each direction, this tendered contract will contain certain requirements regarding service levels and start/finish times. I can't see First being able to operate the current timetable on their own without opening an outstation somewhere (perhaps Lampeter?). We shall see.
 

Rhydgaled

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Agreed, although I get the impression this guy has more to do with the company than just driving for them. Certainly in this case I'd be more willing to take the word of an employee of one of the companies directly involved than from, if you like, a third-party operator.
Good point. It certainly sounds as if Lewis' has lost their share of the contract but, maybe just wishfull thinking, maybe somebody like Mid Wales Travel has won some trips as well as First.

Another thought though, the contract specified that the operator(s) must find reasonably new vehicles, of much higher quality than the standard spec. I wonder whether this was too difficult for the small local operators? Had WAG offered to provide the three WAG-owned Tempos ordered for the service but now employed on a short distance airport shuttle which has less need of the high specification vehicles, could things have been different?
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Good point. It certainly sounds as if Lewis' has lost their share of the contract but, maybe just wishfull thinking, maybe somebody like Mid Wales Travel has won some trips as well as First.

Another thought though, the contract specified that the operator(s) must find reasonably new vehicles, of much higher quality than the standard spec. I wonder whether this was too difficult for the small local operators? Had WAG offered to provide the three WAG-owned Tempos ordered for the service but now employed on a short distance airport shuttle which has less need of the high specification vehicles, could things have been different?

Let's have some levity? Firstly, we don't know who has been awarded, and if it is First, then they'll have to operate the timetable as the tender dictates.

As for the fleet .....there are buses other than Tempos and the ones on the T9 are on the T9. End of. Instead, let's wait expectantly and see what might turn up.
 

Rhydgaled

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As for the fleet .....there are buses other than Tempos
Indeed there are, but the fact remains that the ITT required high-spec vehicles and the customer has chosen not to provide them itself*. Whoever has won the contract, and whatever vehicles they use, my basic question is still valid: is a large company (like First) better able to aquire high-specification vehicles for itself than small local firms like Richards and Lewis?

*despite the fact it has some which it ordered for the TC1 service, some of which (in my opinion at least) are not currently employed on a service which needs vehicles of such high quality.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Indeed there are, but the fact remains that the ITT required high-spec vehicles and the customer has chosen not to provide them itself*. Whoever has won the contract, and whatever vehicles they use, my basic question is still valid: is a large company (like First) better able to aquire high-specification vehicles for itself than small local firms like Richards and Lewis?

*despite the fact it has some which it ordered for the TC1 service, some of which (in my opinion at least) are not currently employed on a service which needs vehicles of such high quality.

Yes. Smaller operators can specify vehicles with air con or wifi. However, they would probably need to lease and that gives larger operators an advantage, in line with most procurement issues. However, smaller operators tend to have lower overheads and pension liabilities
 

WestyAds

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Yes. Smaller operators can specify vehicles with air con or wifi. However, they would probably need to lease and that gives larger operators an advantage, in line with most procurement issues. However, smaller operators tend to have lower overheads and pension liabilities

Richards Bros - not the smallest of companies but certainly nowhere near what you'd call a larger operator - have managed to cobble together a pretty decent wi-fi service on several of their buses (and not just the ones they have for TrawsCambria), so it's certainly possible for smaller operators to meet such requirements. Indeed, I seem to recall that Richards announced they were providing wi-fi quite a while after Arriva promised the same for Cymru Express, which we never got, so it may be that some things are easier when one doesn't have the hoops of a large business to jump through.

That said, First clearly has a bit of an advantage here in that it already has vehicles in South Wales with wi-fi and, in some cases, high-backed seats installed, so I'd guess that they would be more able to provide the buses specified in the tender from the off, but that's very much guesswork.

Speaking to Lewis's, they've definitely been told that they won't be running any services under the new contract and that the whole thing will be run by First. The belief is that, with the contract being issued by Carmarthenshire CC, they were disinclined to entertain bids from Ceredigion, but I suspect that's supposition on their part.

In any case, if First does take over the whole contract, at least it'll put a stop to the funny looks I've been getting from some drivers on the X11 when I present my Lewis Coaches West Wales Rover. One driver today initially refused to accept it at all, until I politely drew his attention to the fact that it was a valid rover ticket. Another driver can't seem to stop himself from chuckling every time I present such a ticket, which is quite sweet in its own way.
 
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Rhydgaled

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Yes. Smaller operators can specify vehicles with air con or wifi. However, they would probably need to lease and that gives larger operators an advantage, in line with most procurement issues. However, smaller operators tend to have lower overheads and pension liabilities
Thanks for the answer. As I thought, it sounds as if the likes of Lewis' Coaches would have had a better chance if WAG were providing the vehicles.

Richards Bros - not the smallest of companies but certainly nowhere near what you'd call a larger operator - have managed to cobble together a pretty decent wi-fi service on several of their buses (and not just the ones they have for TrawsCambria)
The Richards Bros Wi-Fi is not actually for the TrawsCambria service. The Wi-Fi was installed for the 412 route (Cardigan - Newport - Fishguard - Haverfordwest) and I suspect was funded by SWWITCH and/or PCC. The 412 works using five diagarams (I think it could be done with 4 but I think that would mean vehicles ending up in different depots each, which Richards don't seem to do), and the 5 vehicles diagramed for the service were the ones that were Wi-Fi fitted. As it happens, two of the five vehicles are TrawsCambria Tempos, but it is because they are booked for use on the 412 that the Wi-Fi is fitted, not because they are TrawsCambria vehicles. One of the two is hardly ever seen on TrawsCambria now, as it has be re-diagramed and dedicated to the 412.

so it's certainly possible for smaller operators to meet such requirements. Indeed, I seem to recall that Richards announced they were providing wi-fi quite a while after Arriva promised the same for Cymru Express, which we never got, so it may be that some things are easier when one doesn't have the hoops of a large business to jump through.
Arriva's promise of Wi-Fi probably would have been along with the new vehicles which never came, and it all had to be funded out of Arriva's own pockets. As I said, I suspect the Richards Bros Wi-Fi was externally funded. Also, Wi-Fi can be retro-fitted relatively easily I suspect (one of Richards Bros' Wi-Fi Tempos took the Wi-Fi from an older vehicle at some point I believe). The legroom however would require a new vehicle or a major refurbishment unless the operator already had suitable vehicles and I doubt many operators do.

Speaking to Lewis's, they've definitely been told that they won't be running any services under the new contract and that the whole thing will be run by First.
I hope the timetable turns out alright. Does anyone know when the new contract begins (I know it was supposed to be June, but what date)?
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Thanks for the answer. As I thought, it sounds as if the likes of Lewis' Coaches would have had a better chance if WAG were providing the vehicles.

The Richards Bros Wi-Fi is not actually for the TrawsCambria service.

The legroom however would require a new vehicle or a major refurbishment unless the operator already had suitable vehicles and I doubt many operators do.

I hope the timetable turns out alright. Does anyone know when the new contract begins (I know it was supposed to be June, but what date)?

In fairness, their point was Richards had wifi on a number of routes and vehicles.

Reseating a vehicle isn't so major and certainly doesn't need a new bus. If the tenderer supplies the vehicles, it allows a simplified procurement process potentially. However, nothing to stop an even a small operator specifying a high spec bus.

Where smaller operators sometimes struggle is that large firms can use leverage when purchasing but also can cascade with their empire. Smaller firms may have to lease instead and that pushes costs up
 

Flying Snail

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In fairness, their point was Richards had wifi on a number of routes and vehicles.

Reseating a vehicle isn't so major and certainly doesn't need a new bus. If the tenderer supplies the vehicles, it allows a simplified procurement process potentially. However, nothing to stop an even a small operator specifying a high spec bus.

Where smaller operators sometimes struggle is that large firms can use leverage when purchasing but also can cascade with their empire. Smaller firms may have to lease instead and that pushes costs up

Indeed, no big issue with removing a row and spacing out the seats on most vehicles. WiFi is now not a major problem either as plug-in modules can be easily fitted.

A/C on the other hand would be a much more difficult and costly prospect for smaller operators. If you want an A/C bus you will need to order one built which as well as being expensive would also take some time. The only realistic way to get around that would be to use coaches instead. A/C fitted ones can be bought secondhand for reasonable amounts, would also be good for the "luxury" credentials too, not so good for the accessibility requirements though.

It has to be said that Arriva's 0001, 0002 were the best vehicles ever used on the route and it seems that the 701 is doing well, I reckon that if marketed correctly a more regular high-spec service on this route should be able to do well.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Indeed, no big issue with removing a row and spacing out the seats on most vehicles. WiFi is now not a major problem either as plug-in modules can be easily fitted.

A/C on the other hand would be a much more difficult and costly prospect for smaller operators. If you want an A/C bus you will need to order one built which as well as being expensive would also take some time. The only realistic way to get around that would be to use coaches instead. A/C fitted ones can be bought secondhand for reasonable amounts, would also be good for the "luxury" credentials too, not so good for the accessibility requirements though.

It has to be said that Arriva's 0001, 0002 were the best vehicles ever used on the route and it seems that the 701 is doing well, I reckon that if marketed correctly a more regular high-spec service on this route should be able to do well.

Indeed, First Bristol have been busy fitting plug-in wifi modules to many of their vehicles including some rather archaic machines. Air-com can be retrofitted but that is a bit more complex!

IF First have won the contract, then perhaps we may see new kit or some heavily refurbished Eclipses which, whilst outwardly similar to Pulsars, are heavyweight chassis and are a much better ride. A Lampeter outbase makes sense though it will be quite remote from the nearest depot. Carmarthen and Ammanford are just open parking and I'm not certain whether Llanelli has any maintenance facilities now?
 

Teflon Lettuce

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Indeed, First Bristol have been busy fitting plug-in wifi modules to many of their vehicles including some rather archaic machines. Air-com can be retrofitted but that is a bit more complex!

IF First have won the contract, then perhaps we may see new kit or some heavily refurbished Eclipses which, whilst outwardly similar to Pulsars, are heavyweight chassis and are a much better ride. A Lampeter outbase makes sense though it will be quite remote from the nearest depot. Carmarthen and Ammanford are just open parking and I'm not certain whether Llanelli has any maintenance facilities now?

Saw a new vehicle in TrawsCymru livery (without vinyls) hurtling along the M4 today. Didn't see exactly what the vehicle was but it looked like an Enviro 300.

Apparently First has won the whole contract and is opening an outstation in Aberystwyth.
 

Rhydgaled

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Apparently First has won the whole contract and is opening an outstation in Aberystwyth.
Interesting news, and possibly quite a relief in terms of the timetable if true compared to First running everything from the Carmarthen end. Still not great news for the local independants though (does anyone know if Mid Wales Travel bid, either this time or when Arriva withdrew?)

I heard some other interesting things earlier this evening. One was that there had been hopes that the new contract would have been announced today, but it hadn't so nothing further could be said on the matter. The other interesting comments came from a woman who seemed to be a spokesperson for RANT (Rural Areas Need Transport), who after this evening I feel like calling the 'anti-Bwcabus brigade'. She claimed that the operator of the 701 coach plays dirty tricks to pretend it was a local bus and not an express coach, in order to get concessionary travel pass reimbursment. She also suggested that the council would be within thier rights to subsidise a local bus at the same time as the 701 if the 701 was counted as an express coach instead of a local bus. Another comment was that she wondered if First's milleage from Ammanford was breaching the drivers hours regulations. Is any of this true?
 
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TheGrandWazoo

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Interesting news, and possibly quite a relief in terms of the timetable if true compared to First running everything from the Carmarthen end. Still not great news for the local independants though (does anyone know if Mid Wales Travel bid, either this time or when Arriva withdrew?)

I heard some other interesting things earlier this evening. One was that there had been hopes that the new contract would have been announced today, but it hadn't so nothing further could be said on the matter. The other interesting comments came from a woman who seemed to be a spokesperson for RANT (Rural Areas Need Transport), who after this evening I feel like calling the 'anti-Bwcabus brigade'. She claimed that the operator of the 701 coach plays dirty tricks to pretend it was a local bus and not an express coach, in order to get concessionary travel pass reimbursment. She also suggested that the council would be within thier rights to subsidise a local bus at the same time as the 701 if the 701 was counted as an express coach instead of a local bus. Another comment was that she wondered if First's milleage from Ammanford was breaching the drivers hours regulations. Is any of this true?

The RANT spokeswoman is talking tripe. The 701 is clearly a long distance bus service. It operates as such and can therefore claim BSOG as well as be available to concessionary pass holders. Also, the 1986 Transport Act is clear and a subsidised service is not allowed. In her mind, she may think it's a coach service because a high floor vehicle is used but this is a misnomer. Basically, she's as wrong as can be! Across the UK, there are long distance bus services operated in such a manner!

I'm also pretty certain that First won't be breaking drivers regs despite working from Ammanford, especially as it's on UK domestic rules.
 
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adey2011

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This service was set up originally for six months to provide cover when Arriva threw the towel in. It should finish the six months on 22/06/14, has anyone heard of any new tenders going out to commence from the 23rd?
 

Rhydgaled

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The RANT spokeswoman is talking tripe. The 701 is clearly a long distance bus service. It operates as such and can therefore claim BSOG as well as be available to concessionary pass holders. Also, the 1986 Transport Act is clear and a subsidised service is not allowed. In her mind, she may think it's a coach service because a high floor vehicle is used but this is a misnomer. Basically, she's as wrong as can be! Across the UK, there are long distance bus services operated in such a manner. I'm also pretty certain that First won't be breaking drivers regs despite working from Ammanford, especially as it's on UK domestic rules.
Thanks for that. If the 701 WAS actually a coach service though, would that change things, or would the council still be liable to legal challange if they funded a 40/40c at the same time?

This service was set up originally for six months to provide cover when Arriva threw the towel in. It should finish the six months on 22/06/14, has anyone heard of any new tenders going out to commence from the 23rd?
I haven't, but then I never saw the 40/40c/T1 ITT either except on here. Nothing on X50/50/550 either as far as I know, also a 6 month contract I believe.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Thanks for that. If the 701 WAS actually a coach service though, would that change things, or would the council still be liable to legal challange if they funded a 40/40c at the same time?

A bit a academic really. If the 701 didn't stop at all stops and provide the same links (ie it operated non stop Aber to Carm) then an alternative service could be supported. However, IT IS a bus service, does operate as such, qualifies for BSOG and concessionary pass reimbursement and so alternative similar facilities cannot be subsidised, as has been said on this thread before.
 

Teflon Lettuce

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A bit a academic really. If the 701 didn't stop at all stops and provide the same links (ie it operated non stop Aber to Carm) then an alternative service could be supported. However, IT IS a bus service, does operate as such, qualifies for BSOG and concessionary pass reimbursement and so alternative similar facilities cannot be subsidised, as has been said on this thread before.

and as has also been said before... the WAG (through the councils) ARE subsidising services that interfere with the commercial operation of 701 (0940 ex Aber and running 10 mins ahead of 701 from Carmarthen)... I also believe that with the new timetable there will also be a 40/ 40c from Aber at 0740.

Of course it could be argued that the WAG is a law unto itself... after all operators are forced by law to accept concessionary passes for an agreed rate... but the WAG has proved that it can arbitrarily change that rate without consultation.

I wonder how much money will be squandered each year subsidising services which duplicate something that is already there...
 

WestyAds

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A bit a academic really. If the 701 didn't stop at all stops and provide the same links (ie it operated non stop Aber to Carm) then an alternative service could be supported. However, IT IS a bus service, does operate as such, qualifies for BSOG and concessionary pass reimbursement and so alternative similar facilities cannot be subsidised, as has been said on this thread before.

Really, the only issue, so far as I can see, with the 701 comes not for people using concessionary passes but for paying customers, as return tickets purchased on the 40/40C can't be used on the 701 (and vice versa); the 701 also doesn't accept the West Wales Rover. I don't honestly believe that a competing, subsidised service could or should be run merely for the convenience of the very small number of paying customers who want to use the 40 one way and the 701 in the other - and I say that as a frequent West Wales Rover traveller.
 
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