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London Bridge blockade in August

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RichardN

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The document here: http://www.southernrailway.com/download/31476.9/thameslink-southern-services/

Contains the somewhat ominous line:
There are also some changes to services from Monday 1 September which will be listed in a separate document, available by end June, and in NRES by mid July. These changes
are necessary as we will have fewer tracks into London Bridge after the August work and the changes will be in place until further notice.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing the 5 fast services that leave East Croydon for London Bridge between 8:25 and 8:33 each weekday will need to be thinned out?

Anybody know what will happen, will the thinned services be diverted to Vic, or just not run at all?

Why the delay telling us?
 
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TUC

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The timing is unfortunate for GoVia who will probably end up getting flak from the public as if it were them choosing to run poorer services as part of the new franchise
 
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Bald Rick

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You can see for yourself, everything is in Real train times for the first week of Sept with the amendments made. Alterations are shown as WTT but with a 1/9 start date. But those who leave E Croydon between 0825 and 0833 have nothing to fear.

Not sure why Southern haven't announced yet.
 
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Bald Rick

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Odd, I looked on RTT before posting and could see them, but then I know what to look for. In summary there's about 4 trains affected across the whole morning peak, similar number in the evening. Only 1 is on the mainline, and I think that is diverted to Vic vice London Bridge.
 
ert47

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This is the information that I have to hand, times are taken from the Mon>Fri timetable. Be sure to check closer to time as there could be some changes closer to time.

The times for the 5 London Bridge services are as follows;

0825 ECR, platform 1 > 0841 LBG - now arriving at 0845 (1C90/1C92)
0828 ECR, platform 2 > 0843 LBG - now arriving at 0847 (1B12)
0829 ECR, platform 4 > 0847 LBG - now arriving at 0849 (2L80)
0833 ECR, platform 4 > 0852 LBG - now arriving at 0854 (1E12)
0833 ECR, platform 2 > 0849 LBG - now arriving at 0855 (1F82)

No changes for departure times from East Croydon

The old times are until 29 Aug, new times from 1 Sep (subject to alterations due to engineering works)
 
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RichardN

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2F98, 2G14 seem to be missing from the AM peak looking at times at Bricklayers Arms Jn.
 
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Electrostar

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Is this document meant for staff or public? I ask because of it mentions LOROL services, something which means nothing to the average commuter. LOROL is the company that runs Overground branded services for TfL. It's like referring to Serco instead of DLR.
 
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Electrostar said:
Is this document meant for staff or public? I ask because of it mentions LOROL services, something which means nothing to the average commuter. LOROL is the company that runs Overground branded services for TfL. It's like referring to Serco instead of DLR.
Click to expand...

Probably an easy mistake to make for the person compiling the document who is used to speaking to internal railway staff, like when at Kings Cross there was a notice up saying "trains diverted via the Joint line today" which means nothing to just about everybody!
 
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RichardN

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Electrostar said:
Is this document meant for staff or public? I ask because of it mentions LOROL services, something which means nothing to the average commuter. LOROL is the company that runs Overground branded services for TfL. It's like referring to Serco instead of DLR.
Click to expand...

The document is referenced on Southern' s website so I assume it is intended for the public.
 
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RichardN

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On the subject of the blockade, it looks like they are replacing a bridge that is not directly connected to the dive under. Will the northernmost pair of tracks be disconnected, or will they be dedicated to FCC? It will be interesting to see how they maintain a service through the major changes that will be happening at Bermondsey.
 
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neilm

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The bridge they are doing is just north of south bermondsey, it seems it will be a slightly different alignment, I think all southern trains will use this route from December, then once fcc start going via herne hill this will mean they can demolish the route and bridges that fcc and the mainline southerns used and build the dive under
 
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ert47 said:
0833 ECR, platform 2 > 0849 LBG - now arriving at 0855 (1F82)
Click to expand...

Ouch. That's the 2x442 ex-Eastbourne I often catch.

Based on current performance, I don't expect to be arriving before 0900 very often.

I hope the end result of the Thameslink project is going to be worth all of the pain in the interim, which hasn't really kicked-in fully yet, but I remain concerned that there is insufficient capacity for turning trains out-of-course at times of serious disruption, north or south of the core.
 
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physics34

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neilm said:
The bridge they are doing is just north of south bermondsey, it seems it will be a slightly different alignment, I think all southern trains will use this route from December, then once fcc start going via herne hill this will mean they can demolish the route and bridges that fcc and the mainline southerns used and build the dive under
Click to expand...

Yep spot on, the current up and dowwn fast and down slow line between bricklayers arms jct and spa road junction will close in december.
 
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RichardN

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physics34 said:
Yep spot on, the current up and dowwn fast and down slow line between bricklayers arms jct and spa road junction will close in december.
Click to expand...

So what is reduction in track capacity that is taking place after August, just the station throat?
 
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Class 170101

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TUC said:
The timing is unfortunate for GoVia who will probably end up getting flak from the public as if it were them choosing to run poorer services as part of the new franchise
Click to expand...

It should be pointed out that this is probably a dateset so will not appear with VAR or STP in the data in question.
 
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physics34

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RichardN said:
So what is reduction in track capacity that is taking place after August, just the station throat?
Click to expand...

I'm actually not too sure about that, except the closure of platforms 10 and 11 and the reopening of 12 and 13. I guess a lot of remodelling of the station throat as you say and more bridge work at South Bermondsey jct.
 
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Stats

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Southern have now published the changes from September 1st

http://www.southernrailway.com/sout...-services-at-london-bridge-after-1-september/

GATWICK EXPRESS CHANGES
08:46 Gatwick Express Gatwick to Victoria - cancelled

CANCELLED TRAINS –TO LONDON BRIDGE
16:01 Streatham Hill to London Bridge (via Tulse Hill)
16:36 Tulse Hill to London Bridge

CANCELLED TRAINS –FROM LONDON BRIDGE
16:20 London Bridge to Selhurst
16:50 London Bridge to Selhurst

TERMINATING/STARTING SHORT TRAINS TO LONDON BRIDGE
07:31 West Croydon to London Bridge will terminate at South Bermondsey
08:15 Beckenham Junction to London Bridge will terminate at South Bermondsey
16:51 Tattenham Corner to London Bridge retimed to 16:49 and terminate at Purley 17:12
17:07 Tulse Hill to London Bridge will terminate at South Bermondsey at 17:19
17:19 Tattenham Corner to London Bridge will terminate at Purley 17:42
17:20 Norwood Junction to London Bridge will terminate at South Bermondsey at 17:48
17:50 Norwood Junction to London Bridge will terminate at South Bermondsey at 18:18
18:21 Wimbledon to London Bridge will terminate at South Bermondsey at 18:48

TERMINATING/STARTING SHORT TRAINS FROM LONDON BRIDGE
08:50 London Bridge to Beckenham Junction will start from South Bermondsey at 08:54
17:20 London Bridge to Wimbledon will start from South Bermondsey at 17:24
17:50 London Bridge to Wimbledon will start from South Bermondsey at 17:54
18:20 London Bridge to Wimbledon will start from South Bermondsey at 18:24
18:50 London Bridge to Epsom will start from South Bermondsey at 18:54

DIVERTED TRAINS
07:52 Horsham to London Bridge diverted to Victoria calling at Clapham Junction and additionally at Merstham. Scheduled to arrive at Victoria 09:09 and will be 5 coaches up from 4.

RETIMED TRAINS
17:00 London Bridge to Beckenham Junction retimed to 1657 and increased from 4 to 8 cars.
17:32 London Bridge to Horsham, Tonbridge, Reigate retimed to 17:26.

ALTERED TRAINS
17:46 London Bridge to Caterham/Tattenham Corner reduced from 10 to 8 cars due to using platform 8 (maximum train length for this platform is 8 cars
Click to expand...
 
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W230

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So this explains the reason for the addition of the crossover from the USL to DSL to reverse trains at South Bermondsey last year. Hadn't known for it to be used much (if at all) yet!
 
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Bald Rick

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W230 said:
So this explains the reason for the addition of the crossover from the USL to DSL to reverse trains at South Bermondsey last year. Hadn't known for it to be used much (if at all) yet!
Click to expand...

It's been in around a year, has been used on numerous weekends and Fri 28 March. In use most weekends between now and August BH.
 
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Bald Rick

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W230 said:
So this explains the reason for the addition of the crossover from the USL to DSL to reverse trains at South Bermondsey last year. Hadn't known for it to be used much (if at all) yet!
Click to expand...

Indeed, it is in use this Saturday.
 
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RichardN

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physics34 said:
Gotta say terminating the 07.31 WC to LBG and 08.15 Beck to LBG at S Berms is utter madness!
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I can't see them being very busy after the change. It won't be much fun trying to board the next LBG bound service there.
 
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Electrostar said:
Is this document meant for staff or public? I ask because of it mentions LOROL services, something which means nothing to the average commuter. LOROL is the company that runs Overground branded services for TfL. It's like referring to Serco instead of DLR.
Click to expand...
There's a sign on Gunnersbury station advising passengers that "LOROL trains stop further along the platform". I'm certain that 99% of passengers - and this included me until a couple of minutes ago - have no idea what LOROL is.
 
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