TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Yep, I can only guess that they believe it won't go legal; I'm no Rumpole but I can't see how the 0740 & 0940 aren't unfair competition.
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
TrawsCambria / TrawsCymru
- Thread starter Rhydgaled
- Start date
- Status
Yep, I can only guess that they believe it won't go legal; I'm no Rumpole but I can't see how the 0740 & 0940 aren't unfair competition.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
I agree that the fares are the main issue but if you need to get into Lampeter from the north/east for 9am, the RANT person was saying, you have to use the 701. That restricts your return options somewhat, since the 701 is alot less frequent than the 40/40c and the 701's return trip(s) might not be ideal for you. The RANT person was also ranting about the coach not being accessible for persons of reduced mobility.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Well, can't deny some of that but that is not what the law says, irrespective of what she may think. I guess they could retard the timings by 5 mins do they go xx.45 on the 40 or get the 701 to go at 0735/0935?
As for mobility, well not an issue in 18 months time as DDA kicks in and indeed, many pensioners seem to manage on Shearings!
In my opinion the 40 should leave Aberystwyth at xx:45 anyway, so that sounds like a good plan to me.
Are there seperate deadlines for DDA for local bus services and National-Express-type coach services? I seem to recall that there are, but I forget what the dates were (except 2020 for rail of course, although that is TSI-PRM and not DDA).
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Coaches are 1st Jan 2020 but, if you're operating as a local bus single deck (>7.5t) then it's 1st Jan 2016
Thanks for that.
Teflon Lettuce
Established Member
- Joined
- 22 Aug 2013
- Messages
- 1,750
does RANT have a website? I don't seem to be able to find one for them
They do, here it is. Apparently, they are also on Facebook under the name 'Bus Users in Ceredigion and Carmarthenshire Unite', but I'm not on Facebook so can't tell you if that still exists or not.
WelshBuses93
Member
Looks like First Cymru are withdrawing from the Cardiff Airport Express T9 contract due to low patronage.
http://www.barryanddistrictnews.co....Bus_operator_announces_airport_contract_stop/
http://www.barryanddistrictnews.co....Bus_operator_announces_airport_contract_stop/
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Bit of a surprise that First are throwing it in. Thought WG took the revenue risk. Can't say it's a surprise that operation altogether has proved a dead duck.
Perhaps a certain individual may see Tempos return to the 40?
WelshBuses93
Member
It looks like the T9 is up for re-tendering by August 16th or 17th. Might go to Stagecoach or an independent like Edward's or N.A.T. 
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
It looks like the T9 is up for re-tendering by August 16th or 17th. Might go to Stagecoach or an independent like Edward's or N.A.T.
Bit more info on BBC website.
Basically, the short term contract is up. First will be seeking to win the tender on a longer term basis but the service will change anyway on the basis of the research findings. First have simply deregistered it as a normal practice; the papers have taken that and tried to fashion a story. Who'd have thought it??
I'd expect the firms you mention will be involved plus Cardiff Bus and, of course, First.
WelshBuses93
Member
Oh, yes. Forgot about that lol. Hopefully it'll be First. Wonder what the vehicles will be for the T1.
WestyAds
Member
Oh, I do hope not. From memory (and this is incredibly subjective, but there we are), I got the feeling that First didn't do a fantastic job of looking after their Tempos back when they operated half of the old X40 services. Certainly the three occasions I was on an X40 that broke down all involved First services and a few people at Aber's Arriva depot were rather critical of the state of the Tempos transferred to them when they took full control of the X40 (particularly after one of the transferred buses decided to do an impromptu impression of a fireball shortly after being parked in said depot). Not a very scientific analysis, I'd be the first to admit - and one probably completely contradicted by their running of the T9 - but on the whole I think I'd rather First stuck with the Eclipses and Enviro 300s that seem to be rather in vogue at the moment in their South Wales operation.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
I only travelled on a First X40 once so even more unscientific (100% success!) but generally First have a decent reputation for maintenance. When Tower Transit bought First London (or part of), they highly praised the systems and standards.
Being cynical, it could've been a bit of Arriva getting their excuses in first!! As a replacement tender is coming out for T9, suspect the Tempos may stay put?
Being cynical, it could've been a bit of Arriva getting their excuses in first!! As a replacement tender is coming out for T9, suspect the Tempos may stay put?
DaveHarries
Established Member
I am not surprised that First are knocking off from the T9: whenever I have seen it there have never been that many people on it.
If FC loose the tender (or decide not to bother trying to rewin it) then perhaps the Tempos could pass to Stagecoach for enhancing the frequency between Brecon and Cardiff on the T4 by extending the short Merthyr Tydfil - Cardiff journeys. IIRC there were calls for Brecon - Cardiff to be made hourly a while back and whenever I have seen T4s arrive in Cardiff they always seem to be pretty full.
Dave
If FC loose the tender (or decide not to bother trying to rewin it) then perhaps the Tempos could pass to Stagecoach for enhancing the frequency between Brecon and Cardiff on the T4 by extending the short Merthyr Tydfil - Cardiff journeys. IIRC there were calls for Brecon - Cardiff to be made hourly a while back and whenever I have seen T4s arrive in Cardiff they always seem to be pretty full.
Dave
Another thing that could be done if the Tempos on the T9 become available for use elsewhere is using all 6 of the X1260 vehicles ordered for the TC1 on the T4 and cascading 6 X1200s (either the 6 ordered for the T4 or 3 of them and the 3 55-plates from the 704) to the Aberystwyth-Bangor and/or Barmouth-Wrexham routes. Or just send the 3 X1260s from T9 to work half the Carmarthen-Aberystwyth service (alongside upgraded Eclispes or something else) and the 3 X1200s from T9 to work X94 or Aberystwyth-Bangor as I have suggested before.
It is up to the Welsh Government though whether they move the vehicles they ordered for long-distance routes onto long-distance routes. Whether First operates the T9 or not in future makes no difference to whether the Tempos will be moved elsewhere.
Last edited:
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Dave
It's not First knocking it off. WG are retendering so First have pre-emptively deregistered it. They may well win a revised tender and are keen to apparently!
DaveHarries
Established Member
Possibly so. However this did appear not too long ago (13th May) in the VOSA Bus Service registrations for the Welsh Traffic Area:
PG0006630/176 - RED & WHITE SERVICES LTD T/A STAGECOACH IN SOUTH WALES, 1 ST. DAVIDS ROAD, CWMBRAN, NP44 1PD
Variation Accepted by SN: Operating between Cardiff and Newtown given service number T4 effective from 12-May-2014. To amend Route and Timetable.
However a search on Traveline and on Stagecaoch South Wales website did not mention any change. Could be that the date was wrong but it would be interesting to know what the change(s) referred to will result in.
Dave
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
The BBC website quoted First directly saying that it was a retender and they hoped to retain it. The nature of the tender and what frequency and resources it may have is perhaps the question.
However, it is simply the end of the emergency tender and a longer term one is out so naturally, First submitted the cancellation which sparked the local press's overreaction/inaccuracies!
WelshBuses93
Member
It looks like First Cymru's 67438 and 67439 (Swansea P&R Enviro300's) have been repainted into a unbranded TrawsCymru livery.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/95768318@N07/14368270966
https://www.flickr.com/photos/95768318@N07/14368270966
Bwsbro
Member
- Joined
- 7 Oct 2013
- Messages
- 391
New ITT published for T2 Bangor Aberystwyth Service
Date for tenders to be completed 4/8/14
Length of Tender 2/11/14 - 1/11/19
Date for tenders to be completed 4/8/14
Length of Tender 2/11/14 - 1/11/19
Interesting that the invitation to tender makes no mention of the chosen operator accepting the Cerdyn Teithio Rhatach [Concessionary Travel Pass - the Welsh equivalent of the ENCTS pass for senior citizens].
Is this a "given", an oversight, or a deliberate policy?
Is this a "given", an oversight, or a deliberate policy?
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
First have registered the T1 in two parts with Lampeter being the split point
The tender looks very similar to the current albeit with a few tweaks, there is though an additional departure from Aberystwyth from 0955 arriving in Bangor at 1312, leaving at 1330 and arriving back at Aberystwyth at 1709. No mention of Sundays is this a different tender? I note Richard Jones once of Lloyds Coaches has now left Express Motors to become Bus Adviser for WAG and he will be involved in receiving the tenders which could come in from Express Motors and Lloyds - Interesting?
WestyAds
Member
So do we know when they're taking over full running of the T1? Neither of the two drivers I spoke to today seemed to have a clue, although presumably someone does.
Interestingly - and as usual, this comes with the large caveat that it's just the word of a driver and not something I can back up with any kind of fact - the Lewis's driver this evening said that, rather than open an Aberystwyth outpost themselves, First have made arrangements with Mid Wales Travel to keep two buses at their depot overnight for use on the early morning services.
I suppose we'll find out what's going on in due course, but it's slightly irritating that we must be getting very close to the launch of the new T1, yet we've heard next to nothing officially.
Some interesting points in there, namely:
- Options for Fixed Cost (Net Subsidy) or Full Cost (Gross Cost based). I wonder on which basis the T(C)1 contract has been let. Given the difficulty of Concessionary Travel Passes I think letting contracts on a Full Cost basis sounds like a good idea.
- Free onward taxi for passengers in the event of missed connections between T2 and T3. I think that's the first time I've heard of taxi provision for a bus service rather than a rail one. Is such an arangement a new thing or do the X94/T2 already have this requirement?
- Options for operator to provide vehicles or WAG to provide vehicles, interesting the WAG option has returned after seemingly being absent from the T(C)1 ITT.
There has, finally, been an official announcement of sorts, here. The new contract will apparently commence in the first week of August. I assume therefore that the current 40/40c contracts (which were originally announced as running until the end of June*) have been extended by a month.
* as was the Aberystwyth - Aberaeron - New Quay - Cardigan service, which we still don't even seem to have seen an ITT for
Um, the 'announcement' says there will be a 07:40 from Aberystwyth. In that case, unless they are axing one of the earlier morning services from Aberystwyth to Carmarthen there will probably be three vehicles overnight at Aberystwyth and two at Carmarthen. Trying to derive the new timetable from what the 'announcement' says sparks another question, do First cycle vehicles between stabling points or do they always take vehicles back to their home depot every night as Richards Bros seem to do? If my stab at the new timetable is correct, one vehicle that starts the day at Aberystwyth ends it at Carmarthen (and vice-versa).
WestyAds
Member
Well, of course this business of leaving buses at Mid Wales Travel's depot is, as I said, based purely on the word of one driver, so it may well be that three buses would be needed rather than the two that he mentioned. On the other hand, as that announcement mentions an extra late-night service running from Aber to Lampeter, I suppose it's possible that this would leave two buses in Aber and one in Lampeter at the end of each day, with an extra service running from Lampeter to Aber to form the 0740. I'm sure it'll all become clear in the fullness of time.
If First are indeed renting space from MWT as opposed to opening any kind of operation in Aber, I suppose it would make sense for First to, as you say, cycle buses through starting points, making it easier to take each one out of use as required for routine maintenance.
I'm very much enjoying the last sentence of that announcement, that "Since the Arriva pull-out in December last year, the two Councils have been negotiating with more sympathetic suppliers..." - that'll be the supplier that sympathetically pulled out of the X40 and handed it all over to Arriva a few years back, then
trawscymru27
Member
- Joined
- 29 Jan 2012
- Messages
- 63
New T1 timetable is here: http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/new_service_updates/attach_1403610473_24391_T1_FINAL_timetable.pdf
Good to see that regular services will return to Pencarreg, which lost its service after Arriva changed the route. It does look like two buses will start from Aberystwyth, and three from Carmarthen each day. All of the Sunday services are operated from Carmarthen.
Good to see that regular services will return to Pencarreg, which lost its service after Arriva changed the route. It does look like two buses will start from Aberystwyth, and three from Carmarthen each day. All of the Sunday services are operated from Carmarthen.
Indeed, it looks like two buses will start at Aberystwyth as the 05:40 Aberystwyth-Carmarthen service has been reduced to just Lampeter-Carmarthen and the 18:10 from Carmarthen will turn back at Aberaeron (change there for Richards Bros service to/from Aberystwyth). Overall, the timetable looks quite good although the 06:40 Aberystwyth to Carmarthen could do with being 15-20 minutes earlier for commuters to Carmarthen and it really needs different service numbers for the route via Pencarreg versus via Llanwnnen. It also doesn't meet the Winklers' 50% slower than the car target, apart from the early morning and late evening journeys which ommit Pencader (and thus might also need another service number).
I think they probably mean Lewis and Richards Bros, although if First are happy to accept Richards Bros tickets between Aberaeron and Aberystwyth that is still an improvement on Arriva.I'm very much enjoying the last sentence of that announcement, that "Since the Arriva pull-out in December last year, the two Councils have been negotiating with more sympathetic suppliers..." - that'll be the supplier that sympathetically pulled out of the X40 and handed it all over to Arriva a few years back, then
Last edited:
- Status