Watford Blockades

infobleep · 7 May 2014

Surely though a resorted train isn't going to be delayed by the restoration of the service if the restoration was known about the previous evening.

I assume it's referring to the planned strike and not some other industrial action I've not read about.

Of course if passengers were unaware of the tube trains running, they might have delay a the train but it's referring to earlier industrial action. I'm not certain how that caused this train to be delayed. However I may simply be misunderstanding the message.

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hick · 7 May 2014

The schedules from network rail download every night. The cancellation wasn't known about early enough to put the work in, so all the train schedules had stops missing at supposedly closed LU stations. The lorol customer service staff have seen this and then had to add these stops back in for each train. They have to add a reason why they are altering a train. The best reason in the system is "due to earlier industrial action". They are not saying the train has been delayed, but the wording in the system currently implies that they are simply because they have made an alteration.

plastictaffy · 7 May 2014

33056 said:
It's all gone very pear-shaped....now doing single line working on the Up Slow from Wembley to Watford due to OHL issues affecting the Down Slow

Oh yes. That was down to a crane driver demolishing a gantry, so I was informed by a Notwork Rail bod today. There were some other issues with some wires being left in a van because they apparently "weren't needed" after the work had been done.

infobleep · 7 May 2014

hick said:
The schedules from network rail download every night. The cancellation wasn't known about early enough to put the work in, so all the train schedules had stops missing at supposedly closed LU stations. The lorol customer service staff have seen this and then had to add these stops back in for each train. They have to add a reason why they are altering a train. The best reason in the system is "due to earlier industrial action". They are not saying the train has been delayed, but the wording in the system currently implies that they are simply because they have made an alteration.

That's fascinating. However I wasn't aware the wording was due to a system alteration. It didn't come across as being due to that. Not staff fault but the system.

Would be great if all delays had to have a reason against them if over 5 minutes.

I wonder how many Watford to Euston services were on time through out their journey on Monday but had apologies for delays. I understand why it was done now you kindly explained why but to the casual observer it looks silly, especially when they might also see trains delayed for longer and no message.

May be at some point they will be able to devise a system where they don't have to just upload once a day. I understand it might not help booking engines but this isn't a booking engine. No doubt they use the same source of course. Might save staff time having to amend the services though if there wasn't a cut off. I hope they were able to block amend them rather than having to do each one in turn.

I speak as someone who at times has to do the latter in jobs due to old systems or even poorly designed new system.

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Class 170101 · 23 Jun 2014

Heard a rumour (so plenty of salt needed) that there may be some direct Manchester to St Pancras services using HSTs during the forthcoming Watford Blockades.

Anyone know anything more concrete?

swt_passenger · 23 Jun 2014

Showing in RTT for 9th August:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/J20039/2014/08/09/advanced

1Z18 0845 from Man Picc calling at Stockport, Derby, Wellingborough, St Pancras arrive 1204

dave_wm · 23 Jun 2014

It looks like a few are scheduled: these are from 9th August.

5Z42 0632 Neville Hill T&RSMD to Manchester Piccadilly http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/J20043/2014/08/09/advanced

1Z18 0845 Manchester Piccadilly to London St Pancras International http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/J20039/2014/08/09/advanced

1Z21 1735 London St Pancras International to Manchester Piccadilly
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/J20042/2014/08/09/advanced

5Z43 2202 Manchester Piccadilly to Derby Etches Park
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/J20044/2014/08/09/advanced

MidnightFlyer · 23 Jun 2014

I'm guessing Wellingborough is for Northampton and (less so) Keynes passengers?

Class 170101 · 23 Jun 2014

Thanks all for your assistance

Cambrian158831 · 1 Aug 2014

Does anyone know if there will be more locohauled services on chiltern during the Watford blockades?

aylesbury2 · 1 Aug 2014

Cambrian158831 said:
Does anyone know if there will be more locohauled services on chiltern during the Watford blockades?

I'd assume that there won't be much change as the former Arriva/DBS (some hired) loco's are exclusively for mainline use anyway, (along with 172s) so I doubt anything significant will occur. Just expect to be guaranteed a 168, 172 or more likely a loco-hauled service if going to Birmingham.

165s are very rarely seen on Moor Street/Snow Hill services as they can't do 100mph and would cause timetabling issues as a result.

eMeS · 2 Aug 2014

Photo / Video Opportunities
Can anyone advise if they know good viewpoints for videoing the renewal work associated with the Watford Blockades?

Many thanks - I know about the blockades, but can't recall seeing anything about where it's all happening.

West Ruislip · 2 Aug 2014

Much of the work , such as a bridge replacement, removal of south ladder and ground frame recovery etc, is taking place in and around the station. The signal box will not close until Christmas.

There will a Virgin Voyager blockade buster in operation on the Chiltern route, along with some Chiltern services being strengthened.

In addition the EMT HST will do a London SP to Derby return diagram in between its Man P to London SP and return working.

More details on page 9 of Rail Announcement.

www.railannouncement.com

Boodiggy · 2 Aug 2014

eMeS said:
Photo / Video Opportunities
Can anyone advise if they know good viewpoints for videoing the renewal work associated with the Watford Blockades?

Many thanks - I know about the blockades, but can't recall seeing anything about where it's all happening.

The main work is renewing the rest of the south junction and removing part of the ladder junction between the US and DS. The North junction works also start. As well as the pway work there will be all the OHL and cilvils work associated with it plus other signalling works etc.

Islineclear3_1 · 2 Aug 2014

Boodiggy said:
The main work is renewing the rest of the south junction and removing part of the ladder junction between the US and DS. The North junction works also start. As well as the pway work there will be all the OHL and cilvils work associated with it plus other signalling works etc.

Does this mean actual replacement of the signalling between Kings Langley and Bushey?

The Planner · 2 Aug 2014

Pretty much, only on a like for like basis though, nothing else happens.

LeylandLen · 3 Aug 2014

I notice that Virgin publish maps of alternate routes during the blockade,http://www.virgintrains.co.uk/updates/route-improvements/euston-watford-gap/ such as to St Pancras (Mcr/Sheff/London )or Kings Cross (from Glasgow/Edinburgh) and even using the Settle and Carlisle line via Leeds , but don't mention anything about Chiltern Railways to Marylebone for Birmingham and West Midlands passengers, even tho they are using the Chiltern line for Voyagers diverted to Euston via Leamington Coventry Banbury !

yorksrob · 3 Aug 2014

I notice they haven't included Lancaster - Leeds, which seems a bit of an omission.

TSR :D · 3 Aug 2014

LeylandLen said:
I notice that Virgin publish maps of alternate routes during the blockade,http://www.virgintrains.co.uk/updates/route-improvements/euston-watford-gap/ such as to St Pancras (Mcr/Sheff/London )or Kings Cross (from Glasgow/Edinburgh) and even using the Settle and Carlisle line via Leeds , but don't mention anything about Chiltern Railways to Marylebone for Birmingham and West Midlands passengers, even tho they are using the Chiltern line for Voyagers diverted to Euston via Leamington Coventry Banbury !

I think this is intentional omission. Virgin trains main competitor is Chiltern.

Weird is that they stated clearly that they're not stopping at Leamington Spa. Is it because they've stopped there before?

Boodiggy · 4 Aug 2014

robert7111a said:
Does this mean actual replacement of the signalling between Kings Langley and Bushey?

The main work will be changes to the signalling that are required following the changes to the layout. If you travel that way you will see a lot of the new signal gantries are in place.

DarloRich · 4 Aug 2014

It is such a shame that while LM & Virgin announce Bedford & Luton as alternative stations for passengers to use during this disrupted period they are not making best use of the Marston Vale line to keep people moving. It is a sad state of affairs when a train company rather have passengers undergo a long bus journey rather than offer them an option to remain on the train. God forbid they would offer a Sunday service to help move people!

For instance the St Pancras to Manchester services don’t stop at Bedford where such a stop would allow a connection to Bletchley/MK by train!

Very sad and so typical of the 21st century train operating companies.

Tetchytyke · 4 Aug 2014

London Midland have been hopeless in their management of the whole blockade. Their alternative transport arrangements are a joke.

They advertise St Albans City as the "ideal" alternative station to us in Hertfordshire, but don't actually provide any way of getting there. It's only eight miles from Hemel Hempstead to St Albans City, and would be a short journey on a rail replacement bus.

Instead they choose to run the rail replacement buses from Hemel to Stanmore. So instead of a short bus ride and a fast train into London St Pancras, passengers are now forced on to a slow bus to Stanmore before having to take the slow Jubilee Line to Wembley Park and then the Met to Euston Square. It must add at least 60 minutes to the journey compared to going via St Albans, and for absolutely no reason at all.

DarloRich · 4 Aug 2014

Arctic Troll said:
London Midland have been hopeless in their management of the whole blockade. Their alternative transport arrangements are a joke.

They advertise St Albans City as the "ideal" alternative station to us in Hertfordshire, but don't actually provide any way of getting there. It's only eight miles from Hemel Hempstead to St Albans City, and would be a short journey on a rail replacement bus.

Instead they choose to run the rail replacement buses from Hemel to Stanmore. So instead of a short bus ride and a fast train into London St Pancras, passengers are now forced on to a slow bus to Stanmore before having to take the slow Jubilee Line to Wembley Park and then the Met to Euston Square. It must add at least 60 minutes to the journey compared to going via St Albans, and for absolutely no reason at all.

Bedford, Luton and Bicester/Aylesbury are suggested alternatives from MK or Bletchley yet no transport is provided! The only provision is via the Stanmore route

The whole response feels poorly put together and seems to purposefully create problems for the passengers that could be avoided through some sensible cooperation and thought.

Nym · 4 Aug 2014

Probably because it's a lot easier to get TfL to arrange ticket acceptance than anyone else.

It does make it one major amount of a pain in the backside for me to get into London, or anywhere else for that matter, especially with the recent met line blockades in place on the same weekend!

aylesbury2 · 4 Aug 2014

DarloRich said:
Bedford, Luton and Bicester/Aylesbury are suggested alternatives from MK or Bletchley yet no transport is provided!

During the 23rd-25th August Watford Blockade, Chiltern will also be doing maintenance work from Great Missenden to MYB so there's another annoyance to add to the list! Looks like there will be a good number of customers heading for H&T Parkway or even Oxford for FGW at this time instead.

ushawk · 4 Aug 2014

DarloRich said:
It is such a shame that while LM & Virgin announce Bedford & Luton as alternative stations for passengers to use during this disrupted period they are not making best use of the Marston Vale line to keep people moving. It is a sad state of affairs when a train company rather have passengers undergo a long bus journey rather than offer them an option to remain on the train. God forbid they would offer a Sunday service to help move people!

For instance the St Pancras to Manchester services dont stop at Bedford where such a stop would allow a connection to Bletchley/MK by train!

Very sad and so typical of the 21st century train operating companies.

Easy reason why this is the case - the 2-car DMU would be overwhelmed and would almost certainly leave people behind at Bedford and Bletchley and due to the services leaving Full and Standing, pax at stations along the route would be unable to board. Lengthening services wouldnt be possible either as there isnt enough LM DMUs, the same case with additional services.

Running special services from the WCML via the Marston Vale wouldnt be viable either due to the 2 reversals needed at Bedford and Bletchley, journey times wouldnt be much better either.

Its actually common sense why they arent stopping, but dont let that get in the way of another pop at TOCs. Do however complain about why LM arent providing buses to St Albans, Bedford, Aylesbury and Wellingborough which quite frankly seem all better options than Stanmore, especially St Albans which is closer to Hemel than Stanmore.

DarloRich · 4 Aug 2014

ushawk said:
Easy reason why this is the case - the 2-car DMU would be overwhelmed and would almost certainly leave people behind at Bedford and Bletchley and due to the services leaving Full and Standing, pax at stations along the route would be unable to board. Lengthening services wouldnt be possible either as there isnt enough LM DMUs, the same case with additional services.

Running special services from the WCML via the Marston Vale wouldnt be viable either due to the 2 reversals needed at Bedford and Bletchley, journey times wouldnt be much better either.

Its actually common sense why they arent stopping, but dont let that get in the way of another pop at TOCs. Do however complain about why LM arent providing buses to St Albans, Bedford, Aylesbury and Wellingborough which quite frankly seem all better options than Stanmore, especially St Albans which is closer to Hemel than Stanmore.

Whilst i am sure you know best you could easily run a 3 car Bletchley - Bedford only service and give the buses over to us on the Vale. A mini bus will do most of the day. We are used to it as it happens often enough

I dont mean for every passenger to use the Bedford - Bletchely service, simply that as part of the overall picture it would offer an opportunity to avoid a torturous bus journey adding a considerable time to the overall journey.

Buses should be offering connections between key LM stations and the nearest alternative station. I dont understand the Stanmore link.

Class 170101 · 4 Aug 2014

Kings Cross is also mostly blocked over the August Bank Holiday Weekend. Hull Trains are diverted to St Pancras via Haringay Park instead of King Cross. FCC diverted to Moorgate. Reduced East Coast service.

fusionblue · 4 Aug 2014

Class 170101 said:
Kings Cross is also mostly blocked over the August Bank Holiday Weekend. Hull Trains are diverted to St Pancras via Haringay Park instead of King Cross. FCC diverted to Moorgate. Reduced East Coast service.

All these blockages and diversions over that weekend made getting to manchester difficult (and needlessly long), so i'm taking Little Red instead.

Tetchytyke · 5 Aug 2014

Nym said:
Probably because it's a lot easier to get TfL to arrange ticket acceptance than anyone else.

London Midland have gone to the trouble of getting ticket acceptance with FCC, Chiltern and Underground.

What they haven't done is bother to provide any way of getting to the alternative services.

I've asked them about this on a couple of occasions and I'm yet to receive a sensible answer as to why. They keep telling me they don't normally run direct trains from Hemel to St Albans, which is true, but they don't normally run direct trains to bloody Stanmore either.

The idea of sending everyone to Stanmore, given that LM tickets are only valid for exit at Euston Square, is utterly utterly stupid. Even dumping everyone at Watford Met would have been more sensible than that. Given the stupid rail replacement bus service they've put in place, it's going to be quicker (and cheaper!) to get to London on the Green Line. Arriva must be rubbing their hands with glee.

Watford Blockades

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