It doesn't even come close.
HMRC and The Institute of Alcohol Studies will give you all the figures you need.
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BTP finally make arrests over silly pensioners protest in SY
- Thread starter bradders1983
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It doesn't even come close.
HMRC and The Institute of Alcohol Studies will give you all the figures you need.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-27976912
Two men bailed and court date set for 7th July.
Two men bailed and court date set for 7th July.
Forum meet-up anyone? Popcorn at the ready!
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NorthernSpirit
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Again, exactly. Its the mentality of the typical South Yorkshire pensioner. If they are so wound up about not having free rail travel why don't they write to their beloved Labour party, after all its them who rushed the entire scheme through.
If I was SYPTE I'd scrap the senior ENCTP scheme in South Yorkshire completely and by explaing that there is no money to fund it anymore. Yeah they'll be mass protests but again the millitant un-socialists will want it their way, again. I'd cuff the lot of them and give them five years for theft. As not paying your fare to me consitutes as theft.
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
Money raised through alcohol duty never makes an appearance in the NHS or police pots. From my personal experience, alcohol stretches these services to breaking point every weekend night.
87019Chris
Member
Indeed, don't be like those worthless fare-dodging old Yorkshire folk.
P.S. Anyone know any really really good Routing Guide dodges that will get us all to Sheffield for less than a fiver?
the sniper
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Good old ASLEF, supports fare evaders, sh*** on BTP, tries completely randomly to implicate (likely RMT member) RPIs... So much for the railway family. 
I'd be interested to know how Mick Whelan got access to all the MG11s?! Local ASLEF LLC broke into BTP Sheffield and got them for his inspection? :roll:
ASLEF, the peoples champion! For everyone, including fare evaders, but against everyone who works on the railway that isn't an ASLEF member... Though most already knew the latter point.
I'd be interested to know how Mick Whelan got access to all the MG11s?! Local ASLEF LLC broke into BTP Sheffield and got them for his inspection? :roll:
ASLEF, the peoples champion! For everyone, including fare evaders, but against everyone who works on the railway that isn't an ASLEF member... Though most already knew the latter point.
But some will wait a lot longer than others.
These men would not be entitled to an ENCTS pass if they were 64 now.
These are truly selfish people who have no concern for their fellow pensioners who will be paying for and losing services so that they can have free trips to Leeds.
What nonsense... How is any of this Northern's fault? The pensioners have lost access to the services of TransPennine Express, CrossCountry and on a very rare occasion East Midlands Trains too. What's it got to do with any of them how the BTP deal with fare evasion or anything else (including a peaceful protest). Surely they'd simply be trusting their professional judgement and expect them to handle the situation as is their job? This is not 'keeping schtum' or anything else. The decision also has nowt to do with any of those TOCs. It's SYPTE who decide what the budget is spent on, not them.
Having said all of that about that infuriating article, what is happening does seem very harsh. Would I be correct in saying that while West Yorkshire residents can still use their 'Concession Singles/Returns' at 50% of the adult fare, anyone in South Yorkshire now has to pay full fare (unless they have a senior railcard, so it's only really reducing the discount). By comparison residents of Greater Manchester retain the free off-peak travel on trains and trams, in addition to buses.
PermitToTravel
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GatwickDepress
Established Member
Does this mean that if I protested against fares (£10.50 single from Hastings to Wadhurst for a journey of 39 minutes, SYPTE take note) in the south east and boarded without a ticket, I could get ASLEF to back me on claims of "police brutality on young girl" when the BTP carry out their duties in accordance with the law?Good old ASLEF, supports fare evaders, sh*** on BTP, tries completely randomly to implicate (likely RMT member) RPIs... So much for the railway family.
I'd be interested to know how Mick Whelan got access to all the MG11s?! Local ASLEF LLC broke into BTP Sheffield and got them for his inspection? :roll:
ASLEF, the peoples champion! For everyone, including fare evaders, but against everyone who works on the railway that isn't an ASLEF member... Though most already knew the latter point.
I refer the writer of that piece to the reply given in the case of Arkell v. Pressdram.
The way the police restrain them looks intimidating, but it's designed to minimise the risk of injury to both the police officers and arrestee. I speak from experience here.
As for "frail pensioners", I know people in their early 70s who could punch like Mike Tyson!Here's another video from the same protest:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBeg6bhJq-c
I think it shows a different person arrested from the sheffield star video. I'm not sure it can be described as peaceful - most, if not all, the incidents of physical contact are initiated by the protestor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBeg6bhJq-c
I think it shows a different person arrested from the sheffield star video. I'm not sure it can be described as peaceful - most, if not all, the incidents of physical contact are initiated by the protestor.
I bet the Daily Wail wouldn't link to that video
Nice to see members of the public shout abuse at the Police doing there lawful duty, idiots like that should be given a talking to.
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I bet the Daily Wail wouldn't link to that video
Nice to see members of the public shout abuse at the Police doing there lawful duty, idiots like that should be given a talking to.
I'm not entirely sure that's fair. I'm not condoning their actions - because we don't know what they are exactly (and that video doesn't exactly clear it up) but there seems to be a failure to be able to see this from both sides in this thread. But then... should I be surprised at that...?
theblackwatch
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I bet the Daily Wail wouldn't link to that video
Nice to see members of the public shout abuse at the Police doing there lawful duty, idiots like that should be given a talking to.
And if it was a 'yoof' who was shouting like that in front of the police and a camera, all the OAPs would be moaning about how the younger generation have no respect for the law....
(And before anyone accuses me of being one of the younger generation, I'm far from it - I'm about half way through my working life which makes me middle aged!)
No you shouldn't. Some of the ignorant, reactionary, ageist posts on this subject are among the worst I've ever seem on this board. Well done ASLEF for taking a stand. Who's next target for the keyboard warriors then? Haven't done disabled people for a while have you?
Jeez, the amount of vituperative angst that can be generated by an alliance of rail staff and enthusiasts makes a lot of football forums seem civilised. If these pensioners had been anti-HS2 as well, you'd be calling for the death penalty.....
bussnapperwm
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I say that the police did what they could as best as they could and handled it well.
The OAPs in this case were clearly abusive and personally I'd love to see the Judge throw the book at them.
The OAPs in this case were clearly abusive and personally I'd love to see the Judge throw the book at them.
It's called civil disobedience, and it's how a lot of the rights and freedoms we have today came about.....
So you're advocating lawlessness?
the sniper
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So if every passenger in the country engaged in disturbances like that with the end result being that nobody paid to travel on the railway, you'd be alright with that too? The Police shouldn't intervene, anarchy should succeed and the tax payer should pick up all the passengers tabs?
Or is it just old people who are allowed to break the law with impunity while every other fare paying passenger pays for their free rides gained through 'civil disobedience'?
Not in general, but people protesting against unfair treatment shouldn't be treated as criminals. Except in countries where apparently rational internet posters are wetting themselves and making puerile jokes about tooled up authority figures manhandling the elderly, apparently....
You're right, nothing wrong with protesting.
But protests have to be legal. A "freedom ride" - fare evasion to everyone else (something which can be prosecuted under 2 pieces of legislation) is NOT legal, and so people in that boat SHOULD be treated as criminals.
Precisely what is unfair about removing a benefit which is more generous than most other OAPs get in their local areas? If you were making their travel entitlements worse than anywhere else I could see the 'fairness' argument but in this case?
the sniper
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Nah, people breaking the law shouldn't be treated as criminals, particularly when they're breaking the law to obtain free perks that most people in the country don't have and don't expect to get.
So if you don't get it, nobody should? And no one is advocating random lawbreaking. But the railway, and BTP's reaction to this was totally over the top, and more suited to the Soviet Union and the UK. Pensioners are an easy target - BTP and RPI's are much harder to find when gangs of youths are terrorising staff and passengers and blatantly fare-dodging. But bullies and cowards are generally the same people...
PermitToTravel
Established Member
Arresting someone for a railway ticketing offence is a silly waste of resources unless there are other aggravating factors making it necessary (violence, threatening behaviour, failure to give details, etc)
They have many legal ways to protest.
You're right, they're entitled to also choose the civil disobedience route. Y'know, choosing to do something illegal because you feel the laws are wrong or unjust. But then you can't be surprised when you get arrested.
The amount of force in the video, to me, seems reasonable *if* (we don't know) the person was resisting arrest.
I would say ASLEF are on very dodgy moral ground. They're criticising BTP officer actions based on little evidence, but they (rightly) wouldn't be very keen on one of their members being judged based on an out-of-context youtube video.
Whilst I'm not sure the appropriation of the term "Freedom Riders" is really appropriate, I fully support the concept of their protest. Doing an arrestable crime because you believe something is wrong shows an admirable commitment. But you can't then complain when you get arrested.
That's one way of phrasing the question. I'd phrase it as why should they get a benefit which no other OAPs get? If you've got a ENTCS pass in the North East you don't get free train travel. Why should the pensioners of South Yorkshire when SYPTE are looking at having to make savings?
Again I could see the fairness argument if their travel entitlements were being made worse than anywhere else but they're not. They're being reduced to the same level as everywhere else. How is this unfair?
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