Boris and the Bakerloo Line

Minstral25 · 16 Jul 2014

Boris in his ask Boris sessions today said "we are doing the first extension for 20 years on the Northern Line and stand by for some amazing news on the Bakerloo line"

Any idea what he (or more accurately TFL) is planning for the Bakerloo??

RailUK Forums

N Levers · 16 Jul 2014

Watford Junction?

JaJaWa · 16 Jul 2014

The Bakerloo line is going to be extended along Old Kent Road https://twitter.com/MayorofLondon/statuses/472005237394644992

Busaholic · 16 Jul 2014

JaJaWa said:
The Bakerloo line is going to be extended along Old Kent Road https://twitter.com/MayorofLondon/statuses/472005237394644992

If true, sorely needed, in part comprnsation for loss of South London Line.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Please do it before the Northern.

Nym · 17 Jul 2014

said it before and I'll say it again; with what trains?

Blindtraveler · 17 Jul 2014

how many 67 stock remain?

jopsuk · 17 Jul 2014

I reckon on the timescale that's required for the Bakerloo extension to actually happen, "with what trains" will be answered with "with a wholly new fleet".

IE despite Boris bluster I don't see it happening for a good long time.

Order a big fleet, extend north to Watford as well... and make Kilburn High Road and South Hampstead either shut or stops on LM services?

Blindtraveler · 17 Jul 2014

so new tube for London for the Bakerloo, Pic, and sadly (in my view which I know few share) the Central?

Tetchytyke · 17 Jul 2014

Nym said:
said it before and I'll say it again; with what trains?

With the New Tube for London trains which TfL are looking to order towards the end of the decade. If the Bakerloo is extended, I'd be surprised if it was built before 2025.

bb21 · 17 Jul 2014

Someone on that twitter page was asking for south London to have comparable coverage by LU as north London. How convenient to ignore the comprehensive coverage there by National Rail services.

They are not as frequent, granted, but they are still comprehensive nonetheless.

fusionblue · 17 Jul 2014

bb21 said:
Someone on that twitter page was asking for south London to have comparable coverage by LU as north London. How convenient to ignore the comprehensive coverage there by National Rail services.

They are not as frequent, granted, but they are still comprehensive nonetheless.

To be fair, 2tph is low enough (especially compared against the victoria line and 30tph, for example) for people to say "oh i'll go another way" and simply not use it.

I wouldn't really call it redundancy, but having other options is a benefit when it's either the DLR (which itself is packed solid when something happens in SE Land) or bus.

Busaholic · 17 Jul 2014

London Travelwatch's figures on the bus routes with most complaints about overcrowding show 9 of the worst 10 operating in S.E. London. Put more buses on? There's no money to do this because it's all being spent (wasted) on the New Bus For London. The London clay used to be the excuse why South London didn't have the Tube but certainly with modern techniques that's no obstacle now. Very few stations in S.E. London get even 6tph into Central London even at peak hours - on many lines there are no peak extras. One of the reasons why London Overground south of the river is so crowded is the passengers making roundabout journeys to get to where they really want in the absence of decent, reasonably direct alternatives.

Greenback · 17 Jul 2014

I'm sure that tube extensions will push up house prices in the vicinity of the new stations as they become more desirable and convenient areas for commuting into central London.

But on my various bus journeys through and to Peckham, Woolwich and Greenwich, most of the bus traffic is short distance, rather than, say, Greenwich Park to Waterloo. I can't see a new tube being that helpful in reducing overcrowding on the buses. Most of the people tend to use the bus tog et to and from residential areas, about 4-10 stops as far as I could tell on average from looking at those around me.

I think the tube will help National Rail more than the buses.

telstarbox · 17 Jul 2014

If South London was on the tube map it would definitely be less affordable. For example, people have started to cotton onto Deptford being 10 minutes from the City by train and there are new flats going up all over the Lewisham and Southwark boroughs.

joeykins82 · 17 Jul 2014

As has been said numerous times on these forums and elsewhere, the obvious* extension of the Bakerloo line beyond Elephant & Castle is via "some route" to Lewisham where it turns south and rises to the surface to take over the NR Hayes branch.

http://carto.metro.free.fr/cartes/m....php?gpslat=51.458936&gpslon=-0.014367&zoom=4

It frees up paths through Lewisham and London Bridge which could be used to enhance other services such as Victoria-Dartford and services via Tonbridge.

(* in my opinion at least)

JamesRowden · 17 Jul 2014

joeykins82 said:
As has been said numerous times on these forums and elsewhere, the obvious* extension of the Bakerloo line beyond Elephant & Castle is via "some route" to Lewisham where it turns south and rises to the surface to take over the NR Hayes branch.

http://carto.metro.free.fr/cartes/m....php?gpslat=51.458936&gpslon=-0.014367&zoom=4

It frees up paths through Lewisham and London Bridge which could be used to enhance other services such as Victoria-Dartford and services via Tonbridge.

(* in my opinion at least)

There is also the possibility of taking over the Bexleyheath line as well.

Nym · 17 Jul 2014

Blindtraveler said:
how many 67 stock remain?

At my last count its possible to get two extra trains out of the 1967TS Mk.II left in a few places.

Basically, Boris is doing his usual of announcing things if they're possible or not; and many years ahead of time.

bb21 · 17 Jul 2014

Well, the mayoral election is only two years away so I guess he is working on it now.

swt_passenger · 17 Jul 2014

Nym said:
Basically, Boris is doing his usual of announcing things if they're possible or not; and many years ahead of time.

He must have read the notes Ken left him at last then...

Mikey C · 17 Jul 2014

Nym said:
At my last count its possible to get two extra trains out of the 1967TS Mk.II left in a few places.

Basically, Boris is doing his usual of announcing things if they're possible or not; and many years ahead of time.

Like every other politician then!

Getting Bakerloo extensions on the radar at least increases the chance of it actually happening (seeing that it's been spoken about as a general aspiration for the best part of 100 years...)

Mutant Lemming · 17 Jul 2014

Nothing about amalgamating all the surface lines and operating it from five 'super' depots along the lines of the Overground ?

Nym · 17 Jul 2014

Ummm, there's only really one depot being lost as a true depot as part of the Sub Surface Upgrade plan, and if anything, more stabling points being braught in.

Neasden, Upminster, and Ealing Common being the true depots, with Hammersmith being converted to 'covered sidings' to join Barking, Rickmansworth North and South, Watford Station, Uxbridge etc.

Lillie Bridge will also be joining that list.

theageofthetra · 19 Jul 2014

I thought the most limiting factor in any Bakerloo service upgrade was the limited space in the depot on the southern end. Surely the extension will have a new, larger depot?

Nym · 19 Jul 2014

Or indeed in any depot, when the 1972TS Mk.1s came to the bakerloo it took two new roads at Stonebridge Park, there really isn't space at London Road and outstabling at the Elephant is already full too. As is Queens Park.

If one extended to Watford Junction a depot or covered sidings could be rebuilt on the line toward Croxley, or keep that section dual fitted and use Watford or Rickmansworth.

Busaholic · 19 Jul 2014

I f the line were to be extended to Hayes via Lewisham would there be room for some sort of depot at Lower Sydenham?

Nym · 19 Jul 2014

One could always buy the land up from the builders' merchant near Queens Park and make that into a set of covered sidings as a kind of extension to Queens Park North sidings, but treated more like the South Sheds. Could even have a pit road or two and a headshunt down the side of the down DC....?

Peter Mugridge · 19 Jul 2014

Isn't that railway owned land anyway that's rented out?

Mutant Lemming · 20 Jul 2014

...or for a more 'exciting' Northern extension - extend to Watford Junction and add a dive under to link it to the St.Albans Abbey branch.

Nozzacook · 20 Jul 2014

If Boris is announcing it the line will extend east south of the river terminating at Boris Island.

Busaholic · 20 Jul 2014

Nozzacook said:
If Boris is announcing it the line will extend east south of the river terminating at Boris Island.

He's much more likely to intend the extension of Crossrail from Abbey Wood to Boris Island: I'd be willing to bet he's had officials working on this the past few months.

Boris and the Bakerloo Line

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