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Cancelled TPE - Use tickets on Virgin?

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graham43404

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Apologies if this in in the wrong section.

Myself and my wife have come up to Glasgow today to try out the new TPE 350's, 8 car set with first half being London Midland btw.

However we are booked on the 15:09 back to Wigan NW and looking at the National Rail site it seems the train I'm guessing will form this service has been canceled at Manchester Airport due to a train fault.

I'm wondering if people on here know what the chances are of us being allowed to travel back on Virgin rather than wait ages for the next TPE service to come up to Glasgow?

Thanks in advance :)

*Edit - it looks like the train has started from a Man Picc and is running late now rather than being cancelled. Mods please feel free to delete this topic*
 
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najaB

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I'm wondering if people on here know what the chances are of us being allowed to travel back on Virgin rather than wait ages for the next TPE service to come up to Glasgow.
This thread may be deleted before you see this, but if not: generally speaking, if the train you are booked on is cancelled you will be allowed to travel on the next train on that route, regardless of operator - see the bottom of this page.
 

graham43404

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This thread may be deleted before you see this, but if not: generally speaking, if the train you are booked on is cancelled you will be allowed to travel on the next train on that route, regardless of operator - see the bottom of this page.

Thanks for the link. Thankfully the TPE train is coming up to save us from a Pendolino :lol:
 

Tetchytyke

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if the train you are booked on is cancelled you will be allowed to travel on the next train on that route, regardless of operator - see the bottom of this page.

That's not what it says at all, and the private iKB says the opposite- that you will have to use the next train of the same operator.

Where there's major issues one TOC will accept the tickets of another, but unless they agree that you can only travel with the TOC printed on your ticket.
 

yorkie

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The 1509 ran on time, but for future reference, if you're ever in the situation where it is cancelled, ask TPE for advice.

I'd be very surprised if the advice was to wait 2 hours for the next TPE service. I'm reasonably sure they'd ask you to take the 1540 instead (also avoiding any Delay Repay liability - as that train would have got you in only 11 mins late)
 

455driver

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This thread may be deleted before you see this, but if not: generally speaking, if the train you are booked on is cancelled you will be allowed to travel on the next train on that route, regardless of operator - see the bottom of this page.

If you mean this bit-

If the train you purchased a ticket for is cancelled or is delayed and you still decide to travel, special arrangements will be made to accommodate you on another train (although a seat cannot be guaranteed).

Where does it say that please?
 

maniacmartin

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I'd be very surprised if the advice was to wait 2 hours for the next TPE service. I'm reasonably sure they'd ask you to take the 1540 instead (also avoiding any Delay Repay liability - as that train would have got you in only 11 mins late)

There have been times when I've been made to wait for the same operator in the event of delays, incurring Delay Repay which the rail industry could have collectively have avoided. So I wouldn't be quite so sure!
 

najaB

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Where does it say that please?
I did say 'generally' as that has always been my experience - on the occasions that my train has been significantly delayed or cancelled I've never had a problem getting another service. As was pointed out above, it's in the TOC's interest to get their passengers away as quickly as possible - even of that means passing some money to another TOC.
 

tractakid

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If it's the last train by that particular operator, is it likely to be a train from another operator or a taxi employed to get someone to their destination?

I ask as I nearly missed the last train to Milton Keynes from Clapham Junction last Saturday (1739, ridiculously early!) when using Daysave, due to delays on the Brighton Main Line. (I JUST made it, thanks to already having platform information and running!) Or perhaps I'd be made to use the next Southern as far as Watford Junction?
 

yorkie

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I ask as I nearly missed the last train to Milton Keynes from Clapham Junction last Saturday (1739, ridiculously early!) when using Daysave, due to delays on the Brighton Main Line. (I JUST made it, thanks to already having platform information and running!) Or perhaps I'd be made to use the next Southern as far as Watford Junction?
Unless there was a very long wait for the next Watford Jn service, I suspect they'd ask you to change there, as the alternative route via London would be more complex to arrange, due to requiring the use of LU. I'm confident a taxi wouldn't be provided at that time.
 

455driver

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I did say 'generally' as that has always been my experience - on the occasions that my train has been significantly delayed or cancelled I've never had a problem getting another service. As was pointed out above, it's in the TOC's interest to get their passengers away as quickly as possible - even of that means passing some money to another TOC.

The passage you were referring to doesnt even mention travelling on other operators, generally or otherwise!

To try and state that 'fact' as an answer to a genuine question is disingenuous at best, completely wrong at worst.

Its in the TOCs best interest to make money, that is why they have the franchise!
 

tractakid

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Unless there was a very long wait for the next Watford Jn service, I suspect they'd ask you to change there, as the alternative route via London would be more complex to arrange, due to requiring the use of LU. I'm confident a taxi wouldn't be provided at that time.

An hour. Use of London Overground changing at Willesden is an option not too much later?
 

Olympian

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That's not what it says at all, and the private iKB says the opposite- that you will have to use the next train of the same operator.

Where there's major issues one TOC will accept the tickets of another, but unless they agree that you can only travel with the TOC printed on your ticket.
Agreed, however halfway down the NRE page that najaB linked to, under Conditions of use, it says
If delays occur while travelling, you will be allowed to take the next available train(s) to complete your journey.
There's no definition of what "next available train(s)" means, and no mention here of sticking to the original operator, so I can see how some passengers could read that condition in isolation and think it simply means that if they're delayed they can just get the next available train(s) to where they're going, irrespective of who the operator is.
 

bunnahabhain

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From personal experience I don't accept tickets from other operators unless they've been endorsed by an authorised person, or we've accepted tickets from that TOC. You've paid pittance so you take the conditions of that ticket, if you wish to excess to an appropriate fare then I have no issue with that.
 

graham43404

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The 1509 ran on time, but for future reference, if you're ever in the situation where it is cancelled, ask TPE for advice.

I'd be very surprised if the advice was to wait 2 hours for the next TPE service. I'm reasonably sure they'd ask you to take the 1540 instead (also avoiding any Delay Repay liability - as that train would have got you in only 11 mins late)
The problem with the train this morning seemed to be that it was originally formed of an 8 car Class 350 of which the front section of the train was disconnected as it "for safety reasons" to Glasgow and back.

The 4 cars just about managed without anyone having to stand, well up until Wigan where it got mobbed by people going for a night out in Manchester. But seeing as we were getting off it didn't really matter much :lol:
 

Baxenden Bank

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As with many things relating to the conditions of carriage. They look good superficially but fail when examined closely.

Under section 12 it says, regarding ADVANCE tickets:

If you purchase an Advance ticket, you must use that ticket in the train specified when you book your ticket. However, if you miss this service because a previous connecting train service was delayed you will be able to travel on the next service provided by the Train Company with whom you were booked to travel without penalty.

Under section 43 it says:

If disruption caused by circumstances within the control of a Train Company or a Rail Service Company leaves you stranded before you have reached your destination printed on or stored on your ticket, and the Train Company whose trains you are entitled to use is unable to get you to that destination by other means, any Train Company which is in a position to help will, if it reasonably can, either arrange to get you to that destination, or provide overnight accommodation for you.

The implication being that other operators only have step in when your booked operator is unable to assist (e.g. the last service of the day has gone without you on board), otherwise you wait for the next service of the same operator - a bit of a nuisance if using, say, Cross Country from Penzance!

In practice, when my travel plans have been disrupted, I have found 'on the ground' rail staff, regardless of their current employer, to be almost universally helpful and accommodating. As always advised, if in doubt, ask the guard whose train you wish to board - he is the one with the power to say yes, no, or charge for a new ticket - regardless of what platform / ticket office staff may have told you, or even endorsed on your ticket.
 

graham43404

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I have to be honest and say that even with a slightly better knowledge of how things work than the general public I find all of the terminology a bit perplexing and open to interpretation from train manager to train manager and various TOC's.

I really don't know how normal everyday travellers are expected to manage in this type of situation. Or maybe sometimes no knowledge is better than a little, after all how many normal travellers would be sat at Costa in Glasgow tracking the train coming up? :lol:
 

DaveNewcastle

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. . . . I find all of the terminology a bit perplexing and open to interpretation . . . . .
Yes, there is an almost endless depth to the arcane terms and conditions which apply to rail tickets. But there is a very simple way to deal with them, if you are thinking of changing plans, and which should avoid most of the pitfalls:

1. when changing from the originally intended travel plan, don't assume that another Company will honour the ticket. Ask the unintended Company if they will.

2. when wanting to travel by a trin other than the booked service, ask before boarding.
 

Tetchytyke

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I'd be very surprised if the advice was to wait 2 hours for the next TPE service.

I wouldn't. My ex had a situation a year or two ago where, due to a delayed TPE from Manchester, she missed the last Preston-Carlisle train. TPE insisted that she wait at Preston for 70 minutes at 10pm (despite being a sole female traveller), take the last train to Lancaster and then get a cab from there, all without telling station staff at Lancaster to expect anyone needing taxis.
 

BlueFox

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A few months ago I was due to get a TPE train from Manchester Piccadilly to Sheffield as part of a longer journey on advance tickets.

My TPE train from Preston to MAN had technical problems and arrived just too late for my connection.

I explained to TPE at Piccadilly station that if they could get me on the next East Midlands Trains service to Sheffield I'd get there in time to catch my next booked train. They said they couldn't do this and I'd have to get the next TPE train.

If they'd bought me a single on the EMT service to Sheffield I'd have got to my destination on time and be happy with TPE's service.

But instead I got to my destination two hours late, and my delay compensation from TPE was twice as much as the single from Manchester to Sheffield would have cost them.
Surely in situations like this they should use some common sense instead of sticking rigidly to the rules.
 

maniacmartin

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I had a case with Greater Anglia a few months ago where they stated they would rather pay for a long taxi ride instead of endorsing my ticket for travel on their own services the next day! (I made it clear I was prepared to make my own arrangements for overnight accommodation at my own expense).
 
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